Grateful Dead live al***s

Kevin,

Apart from the obvious which Nick has already stated about ending up getting them all I'd recommend:
The Grateful Dead Movie Soundtrack [wonderful 5 CD set of the 'retirement' run at the Winterland, 16-20 Oct 74, -- just released, in UK SpinCds or direct - cheaper but much slower - from the dead.net]

I agree with nick that Steppin Out catches the best of the 72 style dead and it has one of the great dark Stars on...

I would say that the Picks series and currently unreleased shows are really what matters - the sound quality is surprisingly good [esp on a decent Naim system] but the recording level is often low meaning you will have to set the volume to closer to record than cd levels - however you will be rewarded with a particularly dynamic sound:
from the series I would recommend -

vol. 3 - 22/5/77 an amazing example of May 77 with a Terrapin [no lady with]>Morning dew to close, the Dew rivals the more famous 8/5/77 version to my mind -- this is a 2 cd set [i.e. edited] but still great
vol 4 - 13 & 14 2/70 - famous show with one of the great dark stars, plus an amazing 3rd disk inc Mason' childen - great recording by bear
vol 10 - 29/12/77 - another wonderful [and complete] 77 show - the first china cat in 3 years plus the best ever china doll
vol 12 - 26 + 28 June 74 - the peak of jazz rock 74 dead, the best china cat, the only release of seastones, amazing eyes, and a wonderful tiger jam/meltdown on disk 3 [think sonic youth in their heyday]
vol 19 - 19/10/73 - wonderful late 73 show, again a great dark star>morning dew
vol 23 - 17/9/72 - probably the best released example of a complete 72 show [no pigpen as this is post europe 72 and he was too ill] - there is an almost angry tone to it, the last disk features a staggering 1 hour segue of he's gone>the other one>sing me back home - again a great recording by the bear
vol 29 - 19 and 21 may 77 - two complete shows, 6 cds, I fear the prose police will take my membership of the forum away if I describe how good this is - suffice to say best ever sugaree, one of the best early terrapin, great scarlet>fire, etc, etc.
vol 33 - 9 and 10/10/76 - the current volume, two great sounding 76 concerts where the dead shared the bill with the who and absolutely obliterated them [which the who graciously accepted].

I could go on and on but suggest as well getting a couple of the above [again either from spin or direct] you also try downloading for free - head over to the archive [archive.net/audio] and you will find several thousand dead recordings, the majority of which are the soundboards the dead themselves release - you won't get HDCD encoding or smoothed real flips etc. but the sound quality isn't as far short as you might imagine...
try any of the september 72 shows, june/october/november 73, may and june 77 or indeed venture into the 80s [which isn't well served by the picks] and go for may 21/22/23 1982 [the famous greek theatre run]
you will also find the halloween 1990 london show there as well [and no it hasn't been released]. makes sure you download the lossless 'shn' format...

email me off forum if I can help [dark.star@btinternet.com]

Leopold
[apols for the stream of consciousness style and the spelling errors]

Thanks very much. You've given me a lot to think about...

I'll make some purchases and report back...

Cheers

Kevin

[Bhazen, musing to himself: English guys likin' the Dead??? ... ...He rouses himself enough from his torpor to ask a question:]

Actually, gentlemen, should I own Live/Dead, or whichever's the one from about '69 or so w. "Dark Star"? I [shameful admission here] own no Dead albums.

Upon the Mercy of the Court,
Bruce

quote:

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Originally posted by Nick Lees:
However, even I have a threshhold where it sometimes becomes difficult to tell one "Goin' Down The Road Feeling Bad" from another.

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Nick, I have the same issue with "The Talking Drum".

All,

Like others here, this is a topic I am incapable of staying out of, despite the perfectly adequate answers to Kevin's orginal query. BUT, I must stand up for Dick's Picks Vol's 8 and 22.

Vol. 8 is the classic and, in taper days, much coveted Harpur College 1970 show, with its rare acoustic lead-off set. I can only guess that hearing this tape ad nauseum in the era before Dick's Picks has led to its quiet ommisson on this thread.

Vol. 22 Ahh, lovely, lowly 22. The sonics suck, make no mistake; and for a long time I didn't realize that the King's Beach Bowl was in fact not a concert venue, but some tinny, booming little bowling alley up at Lake Tahoe, CA. Yet, none of that matters, because 22 is a perfect time capsule -- a rendering of the Dead (in 1968) when they were truly young and so in love with the sounds coming from their instruments that they would play two (scorching) china cat > eleven's in back-to-back shows. Also, the Viola Lee Blues on dsic 1 is not to be missed.

Maybe I'm nostalgic, or maybe it was because in my era of the Grateful Dead I heard far too many Talking Drums and GDRFB's, but when I want to jam to the Dead I am constantly reaching for Dick's # 22.

cheers,
daniel

ps- these are also excellent dics to silence those folks who (still) insist that the Dead are merely the sum of Scarlett Begonias and Touch of Gray.

My favourite is the one just called "Grateful Dead". It's got the skeleton on the cover and has a beautiful version of Me and Bobby McGee.

Wonderful - a real thread about the dead!

Daniel - when I posted my list I did wonder about including Vol 8 but dropped it as I had already included 4 [from a similar time]. Personally I think the acoustic disk on Vol 8 is one of my favourite and most played of all dead cds [therefore I suppose of all my music] - the tragedy for me is the electric set, which is clearly also brilliant really does suffer from being recorded in only one channel [I donn't want to say mono as it isn't a genuine mono recording but rather the result of someone knocking the cable out from the recording desk] -- that said jerry's guitar in particular on the other one and on viola is unequaled.
regarding 22 I suppose I think the awful sound quality [it is by an order of magnitude] wouldn't make it an early buy - that said some mention should be made for both Two From the Vault [also 68 but later in the year] which has much better sonics and also the remastered version of Anthem which includes as an extra track a 35 minute Aligator>Caution>Feedback from the day before Two from...

Bruce - as to whether you should own Live Dead, yes that is the famous 69 dble lp with dark star the answer would be 'everyone should' - but a little more seriously it depends on which era of the dead appeals the most - live dead still relies heavily on their 'psychedelic' recreations of r'n'b [primarily via pigpen] and his extended turn on your lovelight are not for everyone - that said the eleven is great, although I think there are better version, ditto St Stephen...the one track on live dead which I don't think was ever bettered is not dark star but Death Don't Have No Mercy and it is for Garcia's performance of this that I would really recommend Live Dead.

The Dark Star on live dead is famous as it was the one released back then, it isn't generally accepted [in dead circles] as the best dark star by quite some way. What it does represent is to some extent the pinnacle of the first incarnation of Dark Star as a performing vehicle [rather than a song], in this respect it is interesting to hear it alongside the version of dark star on dp Vol 4 which represents a real transformation in their performance of the piece and their performace generally. The truly 'great' dark stars occur from the European tour of april/may 72 through the american fall/winter tour of the same year and continue spasmodically through 1973 up to their 'retirement' in October 74. Classic examples can be found on Steppin' Out, Rockin' the Rhein, [both Europe 72] - DP 11 [September 72] - DP 19 [Fall 73] DP 7 [September 74, UK - Alexandra Palace] and the Grateful Dead Movie [October 74].

After 74 the dead occasionally [NYE 78, 84 at the greek] brought back Dark Star as an occasional treat until October 89 when they fully reintroduced it however this was a very different group by this point and their abilities to explore improvisations over sustained time periods much reduced [mostly by the drugs Garcia took and lager that Lesh consumed] - also Brent may have been a more overt keyboardist but he was Keith in terms of a jazz players sensibility. There are a number of 89 to 91 DS's commercially available inc on Nightfall of Diamonds and the View from the Vault series however or rather despite my negative comments about Dark Star in this period they did play one absolutly amazing and not a little confrontational Dark Star which is worthy of inclusion with the pre retirement one - 26/10/89 [Miami] - they have not commercially released this [yet] but if you go over to the archive.net you can download it [either individually] or as part of the whole show [only the second set is a soundboard but it is the second set that contains DS]. If you do this I strongly recommend that you also d/l 21/9/72 [spectrum, Philly] and 27/8/72 [veneta 'field trip'] - the dark stars in each of these shows are universally acclaimed as among [at the very least] the five best renditions...

I ought to go and do some work now

Leopold

...and when you have worked your way through that little lot you might want to get hold of the new Jerry Garcia Band box set

Described by my pal as 'blistering'. Grateful Dead records are a serious hazard to wealth.

Leopold,
I figured DP 8 was left out due only to an economy of verbiage (something I shall ignore here), and that it already stands as such a classic. It is too bad about the one-channel -- did someone really kick the chord?

As for DP 22, you're right of course, it would not make an good early buy, but I am hopelessly addicted to it nonetheless.

Thanks for your Dark Starography. I will get me to the archive quicklike and download those two 72 shows. The Dark Star on DP 19 has become a favorite, I did not know it was thought of as a classic. Something about its rendering makes me think I can smell the Oklahoma Fairgrounds -- all far-off rain and cowsh*t and wheat. I particularly love the lone (left channel?) shout out early on in the first few bars.

For me the joy of Dick's Picks has been finding the hidden jams which lurk here and there, in and out of the broader brushstrokes of each concert. The Alexandra Palace (DP#7) shows in particlular have a few. Somewhere either in the Not Fade Away or the Wood Green Jam there's an amazing interplay between Keith and Jerry. I've lost the damn disc 3, but it shows off what I think are Keith's formidable jazz chops. I'm listening to the Weather Report Suite now and it doesn't sulk about either. This show must be legendary in England?

ahh, Stella, sigining off....

dan'l

Dear knowledgeable Grateful Dead fans

I never thought I would like Grateful Dead but I find that I really like a few records that Jerry Garcia appeared on as a guest (eg David Crosby).

So my question is, could you recommend a single GD album as an entry point for me? That is a London Calling/Tago Mago/This Nations Saving Grace type of entry point?

Many thanks,

Jeremy

Jeremy,

Nick is right, go w/ American Beauty, but just remember that no single studio album can give an overall sense of the Grateful Dead. I would also reccommend "Working Man's Dead." But why not just go live? They were first and foremost a touring band, and that is really where they shine. See the earlier posts on this thread for help on that.

I'll offer up Dick's Picks Vol. 2 as a (live) point of entry. It's short-ish at 60 min, a single CD, shows off their ability to jam around some of their better known tunes from the period (1971), and fairly concise. You may want to skip the Dark Star opener though and save it for last or next-to-last.

Nick, the GDStore is now offering the entire Dick's Pick library for USD $595.00. I know you don't need it, but it should be a steal right now for those spending sterling.

dan'l

quote:

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Originally posted by JeremyB:
Dear knowledgeable Grateful Dead fans

So my question is, could you recommend a single GD album as an entry point for me? That is a London Calling/Tago Mago/This Nations Saving Grace type of entry point?

Many thanks,

Jeremy

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Jeremy, as an entry point, I'd go for "Live/Dead". It was my entree into the Dead, and it tells you a fair bit about why they have the reputation they do. Also you might want to give "Workingman's Dead" and "Ameerican Beauty" a spin.

Kevin

Hi Kevin, Dan and Nick,

Thank you all very much. Went to my usual store and only saw "Workingman's Dead" on vinyl. Another store nearby would have a huge collection but was closed so I opted for the Rhino reissue of American Beauty on CD. I am really struck by how very good the sound is, not what I expected at all. And as expected I really like the music.

Thanks guys, this is so exciting!

Jeremy

'peerless vocal harmonies' - well, not quite the Beach Boys, to be fair.

I bought a copy of the first LP remastered over the weekend just to see - and it's great! I remember hearing it in the early 70s but didn't pay much attention at the time... a lot better on this CD anyway. 'The Golden Road..' (Alan Whicker film!)

Kevin

Grateful Dead Halloween 1990 at Wembley was my one and only GD concert. It was indeed awesome, with a never to be forgotten rendition of All Along The Watchtower. I've never seen a CD (or any other) release, but I'd be first in the queue if ever it did come out.

G

quote:

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The problems for GD come when they attempted the same songs live - for me that's what makes the Europe 72 tour so special in that the harmonies still worked so well live.

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Yes, what was it about Europe in '72. They never sang so well again. Was it the lager, the PA's, the sheets??? Perhaps the mother tongue's mother country drove them to be more articulate?

daniel

Folks-

Their Europe '72 was indeed a high point for the Dead, but the album itself was somewhat airbrushed, as they cheated by overdubbing the vocals after the tour, leading to an unusually harmonious vocal blend. More natural recordings from that tour are now available in "Stepping Out", "Hundred Year Hall", "Rocking The Rheine".

I like them all, but would start with "Stepping Out with the Dead", which is an extraoridinarily good overview from the highlights of that wonderful tour.

Good listening!

Nick, re: the Aly Paly-- Doh. Indeed. But I'm sure you had something better to do. However, the Lyceum, according to my quick look at the Steppin Out notes, yielded some real gems. What I want to know is who was at the Wembley Empire Pool, and got to see that DS>SugarMag>Caution. There's a point late in that Caution, where Jerry repeats the opening bars, that is positively metal.

Bruce, once again you astonsih with your depth of knowledge. Come clean now, you were a roadie with Leopold, no?

denial

quote:

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Originally posted by Paul Darwin:
I too was at the Dead show at Wembley Halloween 1990, their version of Werewolves of London was great as I remember.

Paul.

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Paul/Graham

I'd rate it as one of the five best gigs I've ever been too - and I was dragged along only very reluctantly (it was only after that night I became a fan). I met an American guy there who'd come over, and claimed to have seen the Dead 566 times!!!

I seem to remember a really good "When I Paint My Masterpiece", plus great veersions of "Sugar Mag..." and Chuck Berry's "Round & Round". I agree about the "Werewolves Of London" too...

As soon as I get my broadband sorted out, I'm gonna download it...

Kevin

Deadfreaks Unite!

I was fortunate enough, and it should be noted, sufficiently obsessed, to be able to see the Dead over two hundred times spanning 1977 through to Jerry's last tour in the summer of 1995. If that weren't enough, now they are making tons of great recordings available, so it is easy to become well informed about their music.

I am very jealous of anyone who got to see them in the early 70's, which is my favorite era of their career. It should be noted, for our English friends, that the fall of 1990 tour of Europe, which includes the London show many of you mentioned was a kind of bittersweet highpoint for the band. They had been enjoying a very strong stretch from 1987-1990, in what might be termed Garcia's second act, following his diabetic coma, and return to vigor and health. The spring of 1990 tour has now been well chronicled in "Dozin' At The Knick" and other similar releases for the completists, and they were really reaching a wonderful level of group mastery, the culmination of many years of playing together that was unfortunately interrupted when Brent Mydland died that summer. The modern Dead (75-95)was more of a rock band than the free wheeling psychedelic dance band of the 60's, nor the jazz leaning jam band of 73-74, but at their best, the Dead tied together all of their influences, and at least in part each night, forged a new music that was not precisely jazz, nor folk, nor rock, not country, just Grateful Dead music.

The fall tour stop at Madison Sqaure Garden was the first run with Bruce Hornsby sitting in, and he went to Europe with the band. This period found them all inspired by his contributions, and Bruce in turn was clearly thrilled to be playing with some of his musical heroes. The only official release from this period (to date)is Dick's Picks Volume Nine, which nicely showcases the dense mix with two keyboards, and really captures the level of group improvisation they achieved that year. This new period was really a strong one for the band, although it seemed that they lost their momemtum as the tours went on, and Jerry seemed to loose interest in the Dead, as his personal life, drug habits, and solo performances all seemed to take more of his energy and interest.

Nonetheless, you got to see one of rock's finest bands at a point of mature mastery. I always loved to hear from general music lovers how inspiring the Dead could be even to those how could not necessarily tell you when Jerry had changed from black T-shirts to Red ones...

Good listening!

Bruce

Sorry, I think that I'm being a bit dumb, but has anyone told me whether I can get a CD of GD at Wembley, Halloween 1990?

And, yes, Werewolves of London was astonishing.

G

quote:

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Originally posted by graham55:
Sorry, I think that I'm being a bit dumb, but has anyone told me whether I can get a CD of GD at Wembley, Halloween 1990?

And, yes, Werewolves of London was astonishing.

G

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Graham,

No they haven't released it officially but you don't need them to - just wander over to the Archive and download the soundboard - perfectly legal and perfectly within the Dead's taping policy - the url for 31/10/90 is:

[URL=http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=11866][/URL]

if I could push only one point on this thread it is that with the Dead there are literally htousands of wonderful shows that you can go and listen to and that the quality of many soundbaord recordings - particularly for 72 to 78 is as good or better than conventional live albums [and without the tinkering overdubs etc.].

Enjoy...btw download the lossless 'shn' version

leopold

quote:

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Originally posted by Leopold:

Graham,

No they haven't released it officially but you don't need them to - just wander over to the Archive and download the soundboard - perfectly legal and perfectly within the Dead's taping policy - the url for 31/10/90 is:

[URL=http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=11866][/URL]

if I could push only one point on this thread it is that with the Dead there are literally htousands of wonderful shows that you can go and listen to and that the quality of many soundbaord recordings - particularly for 72 to 78 is as good or better than conventional live albums [and without the tinkering overdubs etc.].

Enjoy...btw download the lossless 'shn' version

leopold

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Leopold, I tthink it is a great, great pity tha other acts have not followwed the Dead's lead. Wouldn't it be fantastic if, say, tthe Floyd, Led Zep, Joy Division, New Order, Kraftwerk, Bowie (to name a few) did likewise? I know the Floyd recorded the complete 1977 tour on Nakamichi tape desks linked to the mixing desk; also, all The Wall gigs were recorded, and the 1987-89 tour was captured on DAT. Many other gigss in the band's history have also been recorded...

Surely a Dead-style policy is better than fans handing over money to organised bootleggers (I make a distinction here between professional bootleggers and hardcore fans who record concerts as a souvenir or for swapping with like-minded souls.

There was a legendary bloke in the 1970s called Mike "The Mike" Millard (I think that was his surname) who used to turn up at Stateside Led Zep gigs in a wheelchair with a Nakamichi tape deck hidden under said chair. Because he was in a wheelchair he alwways got front row seats and apparently got stunning recordings. AFAIK, none of them has ever been released complete - even on bootleg...

Incidentally, Jimmy Page can often be spotted in Japanese and Italian music shops buying big bundles of bootleg CDs and DVDs...

Kevin

Near us at Knebworth in'79 were a mass of US military guys who built a fort of commercial sized cool boxes and populated the front wall with about half a dozen recorders of various shapes and sizes and loads of mikes. I often wonder what the results were like. Mind you with the amount of Buds and grass consummed I wonder if they were actually switched on (the tape machines that is ).

Howard

OK so I have downloaded 5 hours worth of GD "lossless shn" version.
Question how do you play it? WMP and Jet don't see the file extensions as music therefore don't play it.

Howard