Dealer Quality

"My dealer has gawn down the plughole, I looked at the next closest and chose one much further away"

"My star dealer is 10-change tube-journey/Motorway journey/plane-ride away *delete those not applicable*"

Or "My dealer has gawn down the plughole, I've beenput off them for life"

Or "I just wanna play music, can't I buy this stuff over the net?"

... please note, I've tried to include choices other than those pertaining to my situation.

Rico - musichead

Although you have some interesting things to say about dealers supporting equipment maintenance, first of all you order Vuk to go to one of your favourite dealers. Next you say that anyone who as much as walks into a shop without severely denting their credit card is a thief.

Do I hear exclamations of "coercion" from the Gallery?

Also, you state that "Vuk is an outright thief" because he goes into dealers to waste their time. I never seen or heard any evidence to support this statement.

I hope you retract,

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

Matthew

"dare you to visit THESE shops and go away without a spanking"

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

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To all; if you don't buy Naim (new or used) from a dealer you are not supporting R&D at Naim

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How do you figure that? If I buy, say, a used 82 from a buddy vs a dealer, how does that have any bearing on Naim's R&D? Do dealers send a cheque to Naim even when they turn over used gear?

Besides, most of the stuff that's bought second hand (either from a dealer or privately) still supports Naim, albeit indirectly. Naim users are blindingly loyal, so when a used component appears it almost always means that the seller has sold it to buy something higher in the line.

Joe

Vuk and I have our differences of opinion on various matters--stands and sources being two. However, I believe your comments on Vuk are both inaccurate and irresponsible. It is well within your right, at least in the US, to say whatever you think (within some very broad boundaries). However, what you have accused Vuk of is, IMO, unfair and untrue. I am not aware of Vuk ever wasting a dealers time and his hifi investments have been made, as far as I can tell, based on auditioning and availability.

All--two dealers I have had extensive dealings with that have earned my support and business are Audio Alternative of Ft. Collins, CO, and Hawthorne Stereo of Seattle, WA>

Cheers,

Bob

I have no knowledge of the dealers you mention, or even of the American/Canadian audio scene.

You seem to feel that all of the good dealers you know 'used to sell Naim'. Are you seriously recommending 'stealing' a few hours of an ex-Naim dealer's time to talk through upgrade options and then going away and buying Naim?

For your argument to be convincing you should be listing current Naim dealers only.

cheers, Martin

P.S. my dealer is great.

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When you visit a shop and take up their valuable time with no intention of buying you are stealing! And if you go to any of the above shops and don't spend money or leave a tip (or six-pack, and I'm talking beer) they will blow you off faster than you can say Ticonderoga, (if thou can say Ticonderoga).
The Detroit market has more pre-1985 used Naim gear than any other market in North America but it is only sold at dealers as trade-ins. VISIT THEM!!
To all; if you don't buy Naim (new or used) from a dealer you are not supporting R&D at Naim, and I'm sure we all want that!!!!

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I too am concerned at the speed and freedom that blowings-off would appear to be dispnsed at the locations mentioned in your post, Ron.

As for stealing when visiting a dealer with intention of buying, sorry pal, my "Head-up-own-ass detector" just read off the scale. If you are up for a spot of trolling here, you've certainly hit the floor running! The mere suggestion that entering the hallowed halls of a dealer for just a look around and a chat is off-limits is ridiculous. If that's your business model, you'll not be running any audio salons from a shop, but instead on a 'by-appointment' basis from some cheap out-of-town locale, as walk-by business doesn't figure in your model, nor does chancing your precious time in selling something. Ever considered the guy who just walks in to talk about maybe buying a new cartridge "one day" ...and walks out with a purchase at 10-times the price? Gee, I sure hope he left a tip. Tipping for service for looking around? What are you on man? Can I have some, or is it free on your planet?

And buying used Naim from a dealer contributes to Naim R&D? Oh what, there's a tax paid back to Naim by dealers when they sell a unit for a second time? Nope, I don't understand that one, and would be very happy for you to explain that one. Hell, I went to a shop about a month ago, thank goodness I was going to spend the princely sum of £3.90 for some phono couplers - I wanted to hook a Laptop PC into my system, to watch a DVD. At least I don't have to agonise about how much to tip them - instead I walked out with a £380 DVD player under my arm. I think they were happy with the up-sell, and I was happy not to tip a box-shifter for the lack of service. Had I used a real dealer (which I likely would have, had I actually pre-considered a DVD player purchase - this was only a back-of-mind consideration with nothing more than a "oh, sometime in the next year" priority) I would have gone to a dealer, discussed, demmed, and paid the price. I would not have left a tip, having purchased. Any pre-sales service is 'part of the service', and the way a dealer makes a sale - I don't deem that as tip-worthy; are these guys not earning their crust by doing their jobs effectively?

I carefully (casually) size up a dealer and establish a relationship first, well before I start looking for what to buy. The "blow-off" that you mention above is the sort of dealer behaviour which neatly culls many from a list of potential dealers - this makes my dealer-selection much, much easier. It is for these reasons, that I never hesitate to send anyone in NZ to Chris Murphy and Steve Ching (Real Music Company, Wellington); or anyone in UK to visit Larry Ogden (Audio Counsel, Cheadle), or Derrick at Auditorium, London. When Studio 99 was around, Peter Coles demonstrated this same ability to work on a relationship, and to sell appropriately when I was looking for something. They're all prepared to talk, listen, advise, chat, and natrually, sell. They won't kick you out for looking, thinking, considering. They will perhaps conceal their annoyance if you abuse this by then purchasing the same kit somewhere else - something I've never supported, having demmed etc with them and used their time/experience/expertise.

Sorry - Rant over.

Vuk is enthusiastic, makes contentious statements, and as we have learned, regularly recants when he finds a new solution which supersedes the last. He is however, never less than sincere in his ideas and posts. I think you've baited him with a rather un-subtle hook.

Now active Kans - I'm sure interested in hearing more about those!

BTW - welcome to the forum! And what's ticonderoga?

Rico - musichead

P.S. I and my dealers aren't gay even though we sometimes audition hi-fi with Liza Minelli and Liberace records.
P.P.S. I also retract any or all insults and promise to keep subsequent posts shorter in lenght.

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I appreciate your diplomacy in dealing with a troll. Thanks for the welcome!

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Errr, thanks Ron, I guess I'm not exactly diplomatic! and as to long posts - let 'em rip!

And yeah, I've heard of the 3 stooges, but haven't seen much of them. They're the ones with the 'Who's on first?' gag, right?

Rico - musichead

What!!!? Abbotttt!!!!!