loft extension...

A builder is not qualified to design the loft conversion, so get yourself an Architect to do the scheme and present you with the options.
You must use an Architect.

You cannot use a loft ladder. If a fire breaks out and the fire doors are effective (they trap the smoke away from the detectors - ironically) it takes 4 minutes for the smoke alarms to go off. If it's going to take you more than 2 minutes to get out, you and your family are dead.
Get an Architect.
BTW - Sprinkler systems and misting systems are becoming more common and are due to be compulsory on new houses within the next couple of years. They work too!
Did you know that not a single soul has died in a house fire fitted with a sprinkler system since the 1940's!

Others have already pointed out the approvals you will need, since they affect mortgage, insurance and resale issues. The problem you are facing is that the new room(s)will require a protected means of escape. See the UK Building Regs Approved Doc. B, 2.13 onward. You will lose floor area as a result. Ladders are only deemed suitable for rooms not normally occuppied - storage areas and plant rooms in other words.

If you are seriously considering this move, do shop around for qualified opinions - if for no other reason than you are tampering with your single greatest material asset and it would be a shame not to get the best value out of the exercise.

M.

ObDisclaimer: yes, an architect

Ken,

Another small thing to consider is that if you use a ladder to gain access to the loft you can not describe the room as a bedroom if you ever come to sell the property. To be classed as a bedroom it must have a permanment staircase.

Paul.

Have to back up all that Rasher has said, an Architect is a absolute must if you are unsure about who to use contact the R.I.B.A.
Portland Rd London sorry I can't remember their Tel. Phone No.and they will supply you with a list of local and qualified Architects.
Who will sort out ALL of your problems.
oldie

Can I add to the questions here, since you all sound experienced and helpful?

Does converting the loft add (generally) to the value of the property by a similar amount to, or more than, the costs involved? (I live in London, zone 2, north central-ish).

I appreciate that it would perhaps be advisable to get an estate agent to answer such a question, but my experience suggests that they, and builders, would give the answer most likely to result in a sale, for obvious reasons.

And secondly, would the bank be likely to lend funds from existing equity? I am self employed and could not borrow more on the "multiples-of-income" basis, although we could afford the extra repayments.

We're thinking of moving, although the buying/selling nightmare we had last time is putting us off. More space where we are would be ideal (especially if we could add a shower room).

I'd be grateful for your expertise.

Rod

PS where is one supposed to put all the hi-fi and sundry cardboard boxes?

Oldie - going to www.architecture.com is the easiest way It's one route to answer Ken's questions, anyway. </end blatant plug - well RIBA paid £130K for the domain, better get some value out of my subs>.

Rod - the answer is - it depends! Actually, it rarely adds equivalent to the cost of conversion - but that can vary dpending on how much work you do yourself, how you value your time etc. A local (reputable!) estate agent will give you a better idea no doubt. Best to ask your bank/existing lender about the financing side though.

M.

some high quality answers guys. and yes, the builder was concerned about compliance with fire regs. but i will get hold of an architect for a second/3rd opinion.

has anyone here ever done a loft extension without losing space in the 1st floor bedrooms?

enjoy

ken

In my neck of the woods a loft extension is a no brainer for two/three bed houses - enhancement in value far exceeds costs.

Those that I know who have had loft extensions have all had to sacrifice part of a bedroom in order to accomodate the fixed staircase.

I would have thought most lenders would be willing to advance against an extension (obviously earnings have to stack up to support the affordability factor).

Do use an architect. Ring around and get a few over for an initial consultation.

Just a few thoughts.

Mike

Ken,
I think in general it depends on the area you live in as wether adding a loft conversion/conservatory to your property will add extra value over and above the cost, remember the old saying Location, Location ,Location this seems to be the greatest add on value at the moment.From personal experience the house that we bought here in East Brighton had a loft conversion and we didn't have to pay much more for it that the asking price for other houses in the area, certainly not more that the cost of building it in the first place. Like wise we had a conservatory built on the back of the house at a cost of £15,000
but will only increase the valueof the property by about half that amount because in East Brighton the house is now out priced for the area.These things have to be viewed as adding comfort to your life style and not as a gold plated investment if then you do increase the value over and above the cost it can be looked on as a bonus.
As to the financial arrangements in this climate of lenders clamouring to loan out money, under normal circumstances I think you would have to fight them off
Best of luck, oldie.

ps,
have any off you had a loft, etc etc. Yes the one built on our house was done without losing any space on the first floor, but it done by building a extension from an existing dormer window over the original staircase to provide for the new second floor staircase, I'm not sure though, that in todays concern that all extensions "blend in" with the exsisting buildings by the planning officers that this would be acceptable, But again[sorry] a Architect will sort it for you!
oldie

I have just completed having a loft extension so I hope I can add something to the discussion.

My new stairs do not take space out of any of the first floor bedrooms as they are effectively directly above the lower stairs, that is, using the space on the first floor landing.

When we were investigating getting the loft done, we saw two other conversions done by our eventual builders, neither of which lost any 1st floor bedroom space. However, on talking to the company it does very much depend on the layout of the house.

A couple of other points; Not only do you need a permanent stairway, you also need a landing area as well. You cannot go up the stairs into an 'open plan' bedroom. We made our landing area relatively big to allow it to be a usable space. Big enough for setee, TV etc, although this did impact the size of the top floor bedroom slightly.

Smoke alarms have to be installed on each floor, are mains operated (battery backup) and are linked so that if one goes off they all go off!

Another thing to consider is heating. Do you try and get radiators into the loftroom. If you do is there room for a header tank above 2nd floor bedroom (not usually) or do you go for a pressurised system which may require a new boiler, and inevitably add to the cost. We went for electric heaters, not ideal but cheaper.

Richard

I added a roof conversion to my own house a couple of years ago, and I lost no space to the first floor, in fact I created space to the first floor without having to build a dormer. Clever design is essential to make it look good. Staircases are the main problem and it is too easy to settle for a joinery item in a U-shape that ends up looking like a pile of cardboard boxes. Beware.
I have one of these

It was inevitable, but I was wondering when someone was going to mention the Rover 75 in this thread.

quote:

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Originally posted by Harvey:
It was inevitable, but I was wondering when someone was going to mention the Rover 75 in this thread.

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Mick, being a target Rover 75 customer, was obviously a little confused...

I thought that Mick was away on his SAGA cruse
oldie.

who'd want to store a rover 75 in a loft??

Surly
thats the only place to hide a Rover 75, as you wouldn't want anyone else to know would you
oldie.

Interesting topic. We've got a fairly large loft, of the old (i.e. non-A-frame) variety. However, we've been told that joists need to be doubled up and ISTR that current regs call for 8" or 10" joists - ours are 6", and apparently only useful for supporting the ceiling and ceiling roses of the floor below. Which means big expense in changing them. Plus, we're not allowed any roof modifications to the better side of the house on account of being listed... ah, complications...

John

quote:

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Originally posted by Top Cat:
Interesting topic. We've got a fairly large loft, of the old (i.e. non-A-frame) variety. However, we've been told that joists need to be doubled up and ISTR that current regs call for 8" or 10" joists

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When I got the loft over my garage converted recently I seem to recall the builders saying that they had to put in some sort of BFO joists due to recent building regulations.

Sizes of joists are determined by the loads imposed and the lengths they have to span. This is calcualted by the Structural Engineer, although there are load/span tables in the Building Reg manual that will give a rule of thumb or a "deemed to satisfy" size. If calculated properly, the size would only be what is necessary and no more. There is no minimum size, and timber for building would go down to 47x67mm section and, yes, that could be used as floor joists (according to my calcs up to 1.5m span at 400mm centres with domestic floor loading only).

Mine were spanning a double garage (26' x 14')with no other support so perhaps that's why they needed to be big?

4.3m span (floor load only) would require 50x200mm joists at 400mm centres, and would deflect 10.8mm at the centre under full load

...As to the financial arrangements in this climate of lenders clamouring to loan out money, under normal circumstances I think you would have to fight them off

oldie, you can say that again... some initial inquiries have got us bombarded with letters, emails and phone calls from god knows... offering this that and the other.

for us, value added is a bonus. we simply need the space. this is why losing some space on the existing 1st floor is an issue.

many thanks

enjoy

ken

rasher, it was VERY useful of you to post that photo of your staircase to the loft. got us thinking of a few possibilities. we will call an architect in -- same one i used to get office extension done beyond our utility area. if anything, this will give us ideas to compare.

enjoy

ken