Support for my new CD5

John

My one tip would be to go straight to one of the 'infamous' quality stands - Mana, Hutter, Base(?) - rather than piddling around with Quadraspire (which I've owned), Target (ditto), etc. - a little more spent now will reap a great deal of extra pleasure over the life of the stand - that's why I didn't baulk at spending £2000 on Mana since June this year, although my bank balance certainly did. Regrets? None.

John

Regards P. (JV used Base?)

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It's a really great player - but not as good as a CDS2 and neither need Mana - do not be convinced by the hype

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Nothing NEEDS Mana. Hi-fi just works better on Mana, as I'm sure they do on other quality stands.

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it's dependant on a standing wave and reflectivity thingamebob or whatever but it really can work given the right environ

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What's this about hype?

James

Crucial statement!

I thought mine was bad but you have just taken and eaten a really rather large biscuit.

Why do I bother?

I often wonder, I really do

Fire in the hole! and with a cough. P.

This is the first price estimate of Mana I have seen, and I think that my wife would probably see the lawyer the next day if I bought some for 2K GBP

Pierre, do Base have a web site where I can view their racks?

Tim

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This is the first price estimate of Mana I have seen, and I think that my wife would probably see the lawyer the next day if I bought some for 2K GBP

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Mana prices start at around 175 - 200 GBP for their basic Sound Table, which is what I use under my CD2. If you would like to support your Nait as well, which is recommended, Mana multi-tier racks start at around 350 GBP. Ideally, source components such as CD-Ps and TT should be supported separately, but a 3 or 4 tier stand would work great in your situation and allow for futher additions e.g. *caps and separate amps. Later you can add a Reference Top to further isolate the CD-P, or get a separate Reference Table if space permits.

James

(who is not a Mana fanatic, but likes what it does to his music

Thx, I also intend getting the new NAT03 and a Flatcap 2 in the future, so would probably need 4 shelves.

1xMana 6-tier rack (£700) (for electronics)
4xMana soundstages (£800ish) (under rack)
1xMana PSU table (£80 secondhand) (for Lingo, etc)
1xMana Reference Wall shelf (£325) (for LP12)
1xMana Flat top (£100ish ex-show stock) (on shelf)

I also have a pair of Mana SBL soundbases, not currently being used (£200ish (now selling these for £125ono))

Total: £2200ish. Ouch

Still, all of the above has been worth every penny and then some - in fact, a whole lot cheaper than upgrading my boxes to get a lesser return would have cost. So, I'm happy, but yeah, you can start fairly modestly and build up (as I did; I started with the reference shelf, heard the amazing things it did for my LP12, and never looked back)

John

Yes I've heard Mana vs. others several times at dealers, shows and at home to really make sure. Yes I think they are hugely overpriced, hype driven, not founded on any knowledge about acoustics or vibration whatsoever and most of all, sound awful.

Just the 'theory' about singing racks that need to be tuned is a laugh. You kinda have to make sure that the rack rattles along with your gear...

I know at lot of Maniacs totally disagree but I'd like to put something on the other side of the scale too.

Richard

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Yes I've heard Mana vs. others several times at dealers, shows and at home to really make sure. Yes I think they are hugely overpriced, hype driven, not founded on any knowledge about acoustics or vibration whatsoever and most of all, sound awful.

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OK, which dealers were they? AFAIK, Mana don't use dealers (yet). I think you're trolling...

I can state categorically that (a) the price, whilst high, is cheaper than any rack in its 'sound quality' bracket, (b) there is hype but it is entirely justified as it 'does exactly what it says on the tin', (c) I don't care how they arrived at the solution; it works and anyone with any appreciation for music/hifi/etc. will be able to tell in an instant that it improves the sound of most any hifi dramatically, and (d) it sounds great.

If you want to play Devil's advocate, then feel free, but we'll just laugh at you...

John

Apart from its exact meaning you might have asked the dealer question first without putting your premature conclusion behind it.

I know Mana doesn't works with dealers (to keep the prices down is their statement I believe ). There are a few (2 that I know of) dealers in Holland who have a Mana rack in their showroom.

I don't want to be the devils advocate and apparently I'll be laughed at. I just wanted to give my honest opinion on this matter. That's obviously a very different one from the Mana lovers but I thought that's the fun part of a forum like this. Different opinions & experiences. Maybe I'm wrong. If so I'll shut up, no problem.

Richard.

John - If I wanted a special effects generator I'd ditch my Naim and buy a Sansui and some Mana - Know what I mean????

Personally I like my music AS IT IS - thanks very much all the same. Good enough for JV - good enough for me.

Richard - you strike me as an intelligent person who can form a subjective opinion. Some people seem to think that you HAVE to agree that Mana is the only answer REGARDLESS of your requirements.

Good luck to all you manaphiles - May you reach phase 118 or whatever. I find your rampant enthusiasm refreshing but please, just stop trying to tell everybody that they have to agree with you OK?

Regards P

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Yes I've heard Mana vs. others several times at dealers, shows and at home to really make sure. Yes I think they are hugely overpriced, hype driven, not founded on any knowledge about acoustics or vibration whatsoever and most of all, sound awful.

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Mana is not cheap, but in the considered view of many here, is not overpriced for the difference it makes to MY music. Sure, it's not your cup of tea and you are perfectly entitled to a different view. I'd be careful about making bold statements implying their designs are not founded on acoustic and vibration knowledge. They just choose not to divulge it to joe public. I'm sure the Patent Office has more stringent criteria for design definitions beyond angle iron and float glass.

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Just the 'theory' about singing racks that need to be tuned is a laugh. You kinda have to make sure that the rack rattles along with your gear...

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Maybe that's why Mana didn't work for you. My Mana rings true, but absolutely nothing rattles on it. Knuckle rapping my Naim boxes produces a completely dead thud (for the damped boxes anyway). I guess you'd laugh at a Ferrari owner for tuning his V12 motor too, huh?

James

No-one in this thread has suggested that Mana is necessary for good sound. What was said was that good supports are necessary, and Mana is an example of a good support (which happens to appear to decreases distortion for many listeners).

Back to the thread ...

My advice is to check out a good support. Paying less than the cost of a Hutter/Mana support seems to be poor value for money.

Dozy

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I'd be careful about making bold statements

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Excuse me?... I think I can fill about 5 continuous page with very bold statements from this forum in favour on Mana.

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They just choose not to divulge it to joe public.

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Ah right... I think they stumbled on a very dark, unknown and far away corner in the universe of physics and keep it a secret. Let's leave it at that then. BTW, the rattling was ment in a matter speech. Replace it for singing or whatever.

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I guess you'd laugh at a Ferrari owner for tuning his V12 motor too, huh?

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Now finally everything falls into place for me. I have to compare a Mana rack with a Ferrari engine!! Gee Thanks, I never thought of that!! Maybe I ought to listen to it again...

Richard.

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Some people seem to think that you HAVE to agree that Mana is the only answer REGARDLESS of your requirements.

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This is exactly the background of my remarks and I wanted to put something at the other end of the scale as I called it. Purely based on my own experiences.

That's all folks

Richard.

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I think I can fill about 5 continuous page with very bold statements from this forum in favour on (sic) Mana.

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... and none of which are from me :P.

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Ah right... I think they stumbled on a very dark, unknown and far away corner in the universe of physics and keep it a secret.

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... however they found it, they have every right to keep it a secret especially if it made them money. I don't hear anyone complaining about not knowing the secret 11 herbs and spices of KFC, or the formulation of Coke. But I like KFC and drink Coke, and I'm prepared to pay for the pleasure.

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Now finally everything falls into place for me. I have to compare a Mana rack with a Ferrari engine!! Gee Thanks, I never thought of that!! Maybe I ought to listen to it again...

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... you'd probably prefer the sound of a Trabant.

In jest, of course ...

James

1) Finite Element Pagode: Has had some good reviews lately in the rags and shhould be worth a listen.

2) Hutter: Again has had some good reviews and seems worth the listen.

3) Mana: This is what I use. Many people really like it. Has had some excellent reviews over a long period of time.

4) Thownsend Seismic Sink: Added for completeness. Rarely seems to get a mention on this forum but has had some good reviews.

All of the above are a major outlay (i.e. at least £500 for a 4 tier rack). In fact Mana may well be the least expensive but I'm not really sure on this.

Others that people occasionally mention are Base, Quadraspire, Nordost Pulsar Points on an ordinary stand & the new RDC stuff coming out of Germany.

If new prices are an issue try looking in the classified ads of the rags or on Loot and see what you can pick up secondhand.

Final thought for the deluded.

Every single rack/support I have mentioned here will have its own sonic character that will influence the music. This is a result of them being in physical contact with the kit that is sat on them. Therefore statements implying that some racks are "adding to" the music whilst others are not are plain wrong and mis-leading. This is elementary science. So what you really get down to is which sonic character you prefer (bit like picking the kit in the first place). Naim has a particular sound that most members of this forum like. Many members of the forum like the way that Mana improves the sound of their kit when it is placed on the stand. Given we have mostly chosen Naim in the first place this may not be so surprising. We clearly value some things in common in terms of musical presentation so we are therefore quite likely to "clump" together around other key elements of the total system.

Regards

Neil