The Official Euro 2004 Thread

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Originally posted by Nick Lees:
Am I the only English person on the planet to think that there _was_ a foul by Terry for the Campbell "goal"?

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No. Campbell fouled Terry. Therefore the "goal" had to be disallowed. That's what it says in the Swiss FA rulebook.

Mike

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Originally posted by MichaelC:
Must check the rule book - but when is losing a boot an offence?

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Rooney caught the defenders trailing foot - still a soft free kick however.

I'm obviously well gutted. I think we only have ourselves to blame, an excellent start with Owen showing why he's still in the starting line up. Then we attempted to do an Italy and got similar results.

It was obviously harsh losing Rooney with the double blow of forcing us to use a sub so early in the game. I thought when they equalised we were screwed having by that point used all our subs and having taken off Gerrard and having lost Rooney to injury. I thought the best chance was to hang on for penalties with the way we had been playing.

Then after Portugal scored thier second goal we seemed to wake up and start playing football again and put them under pressure. Why on earth did we not play like this for 90 minutes and then I think we would have gone through in normal time.

For the future Scholes can not play on the left and I think Hargreaves has done enough to warrant a starting place instead of Scholes on the left. I think Hargreaves and Cole were Englands best players today.

On to the world cup then...

I think Cambell had actually headed the ball before the goal keeper arrived, then Terry " fouled" Cambell.
All a waste of time talking about of course.

Howard

Campbell was a rock, as ever. I couldn't fault Cole, G. Neville or James either. The problem was the midfield, which was MIA. Beckham and Gerrard were crap. Again. Lampard (apart from his goal) was largely anonymous. Strikers can't score if no one gives the buggers the ball.

I was watching on pay per view - and the transmission finished immediately after Vassell missed! Bloody typical of US coverage.

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Originally posted by Two-Sheds:
On to the world cup then...

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Looking into my crystal ball I see England making it into the quarter-finals playing it's gone cloudy and guess what...losing on penalties.

Mike

I am staggered. England should have hammered a very, very average Portugal side about 5-0. One can only assume that Sven told our really good players to pretend they were in Serie A and so play in the only manner that could possibly allow Portugal to win which they duly did.

England should have tonked this side and only have themselves to blame for not doing so.

Sack Sven I say. He is at risk of wasting the best generationn of England players since the 60s.

Matthew

Gutting result, but taken on merit probably a 'fair' result. The midfield was atrocious, and Beckham has been Englands worst player by a disatnce.

I'm pleased to see so many acknowledge the excellence of the defence, especially campbell and cole, in my opinion Englands best players along with roony.

Anyone watching Arsenal and England with any regularity ought to know how good they are. It became fashionable a while back to say both were over-rated, that Cole couldnt defend etc, but thats just a herd mentality led by ignorant journalists overanalysing occasional errors.

Its worth recalling Arsenals defensive record in particular, as well as England deficiencies on the left of mid field which frequently leave Ashley Cole exposed as the midfielder finds himself out of position. Remember also that he's very young, and I wonder how many previous England full-backs were as good at such a young age?

Sol Campbell shouldn't need talking up but hey, why not? He was probably Englands most consistent player at France 98, Fifa put him in their team of the tournament in the last world cup (though I must admit I thought Rio was even better) has been excellent during this competition and seldom puts a foot wrong for club or country.

I know this threads not about Arsenal players, but it seems like a timely moment to crow about their qualities.

Otherwise a few questions:

Why bring a player like Joe cole along if your'e not going to use him when you have difficulty holding onto the ball and making somthing happen?

Why does Sven lack the bottle to replace a player (Beckham) who's simply not producing? Figo was captain too, and having a good game yet Scolari subbed him and got a goal.

Are England under instructions to sit back and defend a lead for most of a game? If so then its Svens fault and he should go. If its just the way the players react then theres less you can do except for maybe install a captain who can better influence the pattern of play.

Come on the Czechs! (and the French)

Like Nick I saw an obvious foul by Terry but then, like BigH47, I saw that it happened after the ball crossed the line. Now we learn that the whistle had gone before any of that for a push by Campbell on the defender.

England's biggest mistake, in any game with Sven in charge, is to score first, especially early.

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Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
I am staggered. England should have hammered a very, very average Portugal side about 5-0. One can only assume that Sven told our really good players to pretend they were in Serie A and so play in the only manner that could possibly allow Portugal to win which they duly did.

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I did think "how continental" of the way England played after their 1st goal.

I think England certainly had the players to make a game of it, but I'm not convinced there is a gulf in class between England and Portugal to the extent you're making out.

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England should have tonked this side and only have themselves to blame for not doing so.

Sack Sven I say. He is at risk of wasting the best generationn of England players since the 60s.

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Anyone persevering with such a patently awful midfield setup has got to have their role in question I feel. Not one player in that midfield got close to pass marks last night and couple (including Beckham) were really terrible. Scholes is never a left sided midfield player plus he can't tackle, so no wonder the Portugese wide players (especially Simao when he came on) were getting so much time on the ball.

England fans the best in the world?

Best hooligans perhaps...

Fair dues, the best team on the night won.
Good luck to Portugal, this competition is wide open and England have missed a great oppurtunity.
On paper England are far superior but on the night were awful.
I presume Sol Campbell will be the first name on the team sheet from now on - a great performance throughout the tournament.
The writing was on the wall as soon as Rooney left the pitch.
We must stop conning ourselves about our 'world class' midfield - Beckham has been way below par all tournament and Gerrard & Scholes were exhausted after 60 mins - You don't win competitions with such limitations.
Much like the premiership, the squad is now more & more important - England's second string players are not up to the grade - workmanlike but not match winners.
The ref was not great but you see goalies get the benefit of such decisions in the premiership every week.
The same old story really - England are a hard team to beat (we showed tremendous spirit to come back with a second goal), but we rarely go out and dominate and stamp our (supposed) authority on a game.

England were pretty awful. But they awful becuase the manager told a side built to attack and score goals to instead play like AC Milan circa 1982.

Portugal are a very average side and can only score -- as we saw against Spain as well -- if you give them 90 mins of unlimited, comfortable possession. And on the 5 occasions England (and Spain) bothered to attack they looked very much like scoring. I can't think of one player from their side that would get in England's first XI and I predict they will get beaten comfortably by the first side that actually tries to beat them rather than treating them like Brazil '82 and trying to knick a 1-0.

Campbell's goal was perfectly good from what I saw. But I am more angry about gifting Portugal this game than the dodgy referee who did pretty much what I expected of a man who had blonde highlights.

Matthew

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Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
I can't think of one player from their side that would get in England's first XI

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Technically you're correct (they are Portugese and therefore don't qualify) however personally I can't see an England midfield player that would have got in their side. And what about the goal-keeper?

You really need to start watching these games from a more neutral perspective and accept the clear limitations that many of the England players have.

Mathew, you've done an excellent job so far, but I really think you should seriously now consider resignation !


Fritz Von Whenthegoingetstough

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You really need to start watching these games from a more neutral perspective and accept the clear limitations that many of the England players have.
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As a neutral England should have won the game!

They scored first, held on until the 88th minute and then scored what should have been a winning goal.

The back four were outstanding, the midfield non-existant and the forwards turned up for the game but no-one wanted to include them.

Ian Wrights summary of the game was spot on!

Regards

NB

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Originally posted by NB:
Ian Wrights summary of the game was spot on!

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One of the high-points of the night for me was when they returned to the studio and Ian Wright was so upset he couldn't look at the camera.

For me Peter Reid gave a much more balanced commentary on the game. Alan Hansen should, as always, be ignored.

Hopeless tactics. Unlike Portugals. They didn't mean to break young Waynes foot really did they? I mean. That wouldn't be cricket would it?

The Ref's got a fan club BTW.

http://www.ursmeier.ch/referee/index.html

P

Alan Hansen was wearing a balck satin shirt and for that alone should have been wheeled out and shot.

I do accept England players limitations and whilst I'll give you the goalie and acknowledge that England's midfield was woeful Gerrard, Scholes, Lampard and Beckham are all better players than the Portuguese equivalent. Obviously Figo four years ago was a great, great player and Ronaldo in another couple of years might well be very handy but last night they were decidedly average. They had 90 minutes of unlimited comofrtable possession England's half and barely created any chances.

Overall it's a very annoying way to go out. Against Brazil in Japorea it was annoying to succumb without really trying but at least they were a decent side, my lasting impression of the Portugal game was that it was a game England could and should have won comfortably if they hadn't played like such utter muppets.

Matthew

In any other walk of life such constant under achievement coupled with gross overpayment would result in the sack for all concerned. Pay them what their worth [less than the wages of a trainee nurse]
keep them hungry to win and they might do better after all it's very difficult to motivate a multimillionair into actually doing anything that might risk "hurting" himself.Was I the only man in England that never bothered to watch the debacle.
oldie not a "footy" fan
PS I now have my tin hat and armour-plated vest on. Soooooooo you can let fly

Well said adamk!

I agree with all your comments. I would add:-

We need a new captain.

Once and for all we must stop playing right footed players on the left. It just does not work.

Ultimately, we should have won the game because the "goal" should not have been disallowed.... but we did not deserve to win the game. Once again we are simply not as good as we would like to think we are.

Steve D

Just like to second roman's comments on Cole and Campbell. They were superb and, along with Neville, seemed to be left by their team mates to do all the work last night.
The contribution of the midfield was woeful. Sven should have been brave enough to substitute Beckham and make Sol captain.
In retrospect it seems that Owen's early goal was a disaster for us.
This was one of the most pitiful performances by England since Carlton Palmer used to captain the team.
Ultimately, Portugal deserved to win. England still look like an average squad and I diasgree that there is a huge gulf in class between them and Portugal...
Simon

Heard a new take on the disallowed goal on Radio 5 Live this morning from some chap from the referees association (or whatever they are called):

He looked at the tape closely and said that the whistle was clearly blown BEFORE Terry and Campbell went up to head the ball in i.e. the foul was given for a push Campell made when he went up for his FIRST header - the one that hit the bar.

Don't know whether this was the case because all the close up, slow motion replays concentrated on the header when the ball went in, not what happened in the build up to the first header.

If there WAS a push before the first header then this would explain why the ref was clearly signalling (at the end of full time) that he'd given the foul for a push (rather than Terry resting his arm on the keeper) and why we're all miffed when looking for something wrong with the second header.

Matt.

I think it was not just Rooney's injury that affected England.

Ledley Kings presence in the midfield would have been a bonus in preference to Phil Neville.

Granted he wasn't there for personal reasons due to do with his partners pregancy complications, but he would have been an asset.

p.s. I think he looked better than John Terry in his appearances.

I agree with Beckham losing England penalty taking responsibilities. He has missed the last three.

Last nights miss in the penalty shoutout and the miss against France earlier in the tournament have proved very costly.

Fortunately against Turkey it didn't cost us.

I don't see Portugal winning the Tournament as I think the Czech Republic are the best team in Europe.

Portugal were not that good...

But if you defend for almost the whole game one lapse of concentartion could cost you dear.

Sven and Co should have watched the video of the PortugalvGreece game where Portugal's failings were evident for all to see.

I am hoping the Greeks can pull something out of the bag again tonight !

Lambros