Protein muscle building drinks
Posted by: count.d on 28 April 2004
I started going to the gym three months ago to obviously get fit and to put a little muscle in my shoulders.
I keep seeing protein drinks, like Promax, which claim to build muscle.
Are they a gimmick, dangerous or do they do your body any good if your exercising?
Any comments appreciated.
I keep seeing protein drinks, like Promax, which claim to build muscle.
Are they a gimmick, dangerous or do they do your body any good if your exercising?
Any comments appreciated.
Posted on: 28 April 2004 by Naheed
Short answer
Is it size or definition your after ?
For Size: Heavy weights, you can manage, with around 4-7 reps, and do the following - Military press, using a barbell, or better still a smith machine, dumbbell forward raises, x-flys – BUT you need to work you other body parts as well (popeye effect)
For Definition: as above but drop to a lighter weight, and do 7-12 reps, triple drops (or 21’s) are good (i.e. pick 3 sets of weights, heavy, moderate, and light, and do 7 reps with each weight) – this should give you the ‘burn’ effect
The gimmicky drinks are good for lazy people (like me) who can’t be arsed following a specific diet to ensure a good protein/carb intake
IMPORTANT: technique is more important than heavy weights with poor technique, you’ll just damage/pull something (check out the magazines such as muscle, ripped, etc... they tend to provide information of top techniques from the big fella's (dorian yates, etc...)
Longer answer
I can’t remember the actual split, but it goes something like 50% training, 30% what you eat, and 20 % recovery. Point being there is a balance, I personally believe recovery plays a much larger part. For example max’ing out all the time will not give your body/muscle time to recover. I went through a phase were I’d train so hard (twice a day full-on) that I’d actually black-out towards the last few reps (a bit dangerous when no one is spotting for you)
All that said you really need to find what works for you, everyones metabolism, muscle type is different.
I subscribed to the heavy weights, low reps, and built good dense muscle, then spent what seemed an eternity doing cardio and moderate weights, with high reps
A top tip for maximum mass quickly, is just do deadlifting and squatting (the mass builders, that encourage growth throughout the body), heavy weights and low reps. Then find a protein shake (look for max protein per serving), add in some creatine monohydrate, and a couple of key vitamins (brewers yeast, zinc, etc…) and PSPII – hell you’ll be training like a maniac
All that said – make it fun and stay away from the roids, they are for idiots only
Most people including myself started on the weights saying I just want a bit more muscle, but slowly and surely you get addicted to the ‘pump’
naheed. . .
Is it size or definition your after ?
For Size: Heavy weights, you can manage, with around 4-7 reps, and do the following - Military press, using a barbell, or better still a smith machine, dumbbell forward raises, x-flys – BUT you need to work you other body parts as well (popeye effect)
For Definition: as above but drop to a lighter weight, and do 7-12 reps, triple drops (or 21’s) are good (i.e. pick 3 sets of weights, heavy, moderate, and light, and do 7 reps with each weight) – this should give you the ‘burn’ effect
The gimmicky drinks are good for lazy people (like me) who can’t be arsed following a specific diet to ensure a good protein/carb intake
IMPORTANT: technique is more important than heavy weights with poor technique, you’ll just damage/pull something (check out the magazines such as muscle, ripped, etc... they tend to provide information of top techniques from the big fella's (dorian yates, etc...)
Longer answer
I can’t remember the actual split, but it goes something like 50% training, 30% what you eat, and 20 % recovery. Point being there is a balance, I personally believe recovery plays a much larger part. For example max’ing out all the time will not give your body/muscle time to recover. I went through a phase were I’d train so hard (twice a day full-on) that I’d actually black-out towards the last few reps (a bit dangerous when no one is spotting for you)
All that said you really need to find what works for you, everyones metabolism, muscle type is different.
I subscribed to the heavy weights, low reps, and built good dense muscle, then spent what seemed an eternity doing cardio and moderate weights, with high reps
A top tip for maximum mass quickly, is just do deadlifting and squatting (the mass builders, that encourage growth throughout the body), heavy weights and low reps. Then find a protein shake (look for max protein per serving), add in some creatine monohydrate, and a couple of key vitamins (brewers yeast, zinc, etc…) and PSPII – hell you’ll be training like a maniac
All that said – make it fun and stay away from the roids, they are for idiots only
Most people including myself started on the weights saying I just want a bit more muscle, but slowly and surely you get addicted to the ‘pump’
naheed. . .
Posted on: 28 April 2004 by ErikL
For the record, Alex, is this green curry, Penang curry, or which?
Posted on: 28 April 2004 by count.d
Thanks for the excellent replies.
When the suggestion for heavy weight - low reps, is it a case of finding a weight that I can't physically lift more than 5-7 reps?
And then how many sets of this do you do?
As you can tell, I'm a novice at this.
When the suggestion for heavy weight - low reps, is it a case of finding a weight that I can't physically lift more than 5-7 reps?
And then how many sets of this do you do?
As you can tell, I'm a novice at this.
Posted on: 28 April 2004 by Bhoyo
count.d:
When you can't do the last rep using perfect form (OK, you're allowed a little cheating), you're done. Some people advocate going to total failure on every set. That's a certain recipe for burnout.
There are all sorts of rep/set variations. You will eventually discover what works best for you. I strongly advise against using the 4-7 range for at least another three months. Even then, change it around. Some weeks, 12-15, others 8-10, occasionally 4-7. Throw in the occasional intensity-booster, such as supersets or 21s.
For now, keep it simple: 8-12 is a good range; don't attempt too many exercises per workout, and do two or three sets of each; use basic compound exercises; concentrate on good form. What is your routine at the moment?
Protein drinks are good if used properly, i.e. as meal replacements, and as part of a good nutrition regimen. Otherwise, they are a complete waste of money, and may make you fat. Even if you do decide they have a place in your diet, it's much better to buy plain whey powder and make your own.
Good luck,
Davie
When you can't do the last rep using perfect form (OK, you're allowed a little cheating), you're done. Some people advocate going to total failure on every set. That's a certain recipe for burnout.
There are all sorts of rep/set variations. You will eventually discover what works best for you. I strongly advise against using the 4-7 range for at least another three months. Even then, change it around. Some weeks, 12-15, others 8-10, occasionally 4-7. Throw in the occasional intensity-booster, such as supersets or 21s.
For now, keep it simple: 8-12 is a good range; don't attempt too many exercises per workout, and do two or three sets of each; use basic compound exercises; concentrate on good form. What is your routine at the moment?
Protein drinks are good if used properly, i.e. as meal replacements, and as part of a good nutrition regimen. Otherwise, they are a complete waste of money, and may make you fat. Even if you do decide they have a place in your diet, it's much better to buy plain whey powder and make your own.
Good luck,
Davie
Posted on: 28 April 2004 by joe90
Be VERY VERY VERY careful with heavy weights. The potential for overtraining is huge. You can wind up with delayed onset injuries and all sorts of horros which will make you wish you'd never been born.
If you haven't been to the gym b4 you really should take about three months to get your connective tissue up to strength with low weights, high reps.
Going balls out straight up is a good way to blow your joints and ligaments to smithereens.
You must balance strength with flexibility and aerobic fitness too. Unless you plan on taking up a sport seriously you don't need half of what people tell you you need.
Try lifting your own body weight first: dips for the arms and chest. Chins for the back. Pushups for the back. Lunges and sissy squats for the legs. Crunches for the abs and prone hyperextensions for the back.
Yoga is great for the average chap. Either swin or skip. Or boxing workouts.
There's six months in that lot alone.
Check out www.stadion.com as a good site for info on conditioning.
Joe90
If you haven't been to the gym b4 you really should take about three months to get your connective tissue up to strength with low weights, high reps.
Going balls out straight up is a good way to blow your joints and ligaments to smithereens.
You must balance strength with flexibility and aerobic fitness too. Unless you plan on taking up a sport seriously you don't need half of what people tell you you need.
Try lifting your own body weight first: dips for the arms and chest. Chins for the back. Pushups for the back. Lunges and sissy squats for the legs. Crunches for the abs and prone hyperextensions for the back.
Yoga is great for the average chap. Either swin or skip. Or boxing workouts.
There's six months in that lot alone.
Check out www.stadion.com as a good site for info on conditioning.
Joe90
Posted on: 29 April 2004 by reductionist
Am I the only one thinking of Cartman screaming "beefcake"? http://bodyshed.com/images/beefcake.gif
Posted on: 29 April 2004 by Steve G
Slightly off topic but any suggestions on what to add to my training regime, which currently exists completely of cycling and hillwalking? I'm concerned that I'm focussing completely on leg strength and stamina and nothing anywhere else.
Posted on: 29 April 2004 by Bhoyo
quote:
Originally posted by Steve G:
I'm concerned that I'm focussing completely on leg strength and stamina and nothing anywhere else.
Steve:
Excellent advice from Joe90: dips, chins, pushups, crunches, hyperextensions - all for upper body strength. Once you're doing those with no problem, then it's time to grab some heavy iron.
And you do need to work in some flexibility training. I second what Joe says about yoga.
Davie
Posted on: 29 April 2004 by Rico
Most disturbing. A thread about protein drinks and nobody's mentioned Guinness yet. Gives one a great bicep curl as well. The only other food group that gives you a workout while consuming is celery.
Seriously though, some great advice on this thread, particularly Joe90's - shame so many gym instructors seem to have missed this point!
Rico - SM/Mullet Audio
Seriously though, some great advice on this thread, particularly Joe90's - shame so many gym instructors seem to have missed this point!
Rico - SM/Mullet Audio
Posted on: 29 April 2004 by joe90
Steve
Put a backpack on when you hike.
Start at a few pounds, maybe 15 or so (that's where the army starts).
Then increase the weight gradually.
Watch your upper back though. You should try chinning to get those lats and traps up to spec b4 having a go at huge pack weights, or you could compress your spine. Nasty.
Joe90
Put a backpack on when you hike.
Start at a few pounds, maybe 15 or so (that's where the army starts).
Then increase the weight gradually.
Watch your upper back though. You should try chinning to get those lats and traps up to spec b4 having a go at huge pack weights, or you could compress your spine. Nasty.
Joe90
Posted on: 30 April 2004 by stevie d
quote:
Originally posted by count.d:
Thanks for the excellent replies.
When the suggestion for heavy weight - low reps, is it a case of finding a weight that I can't physically lift more than 5-7 reps?
And then how many sets of this do you do?
As you can tell, I'm a novice at this.
Last year I had a few sessions with a PT and they offered this advice for lifting weights.
Find a weight that you can do 3 sets X 8, on the last rep, lifts 5 - 8 should be a bit harder but you can just do it. When you are comfortable with 3 x 8, either go for 3 x 12 or increase the weight. When you increase the weight follow the same 3 x 8 - 12 reps, do this every other day and maybe then one or two CV sessions like swimming as this can still work towards muscle tone without maximum stress like lifting weights.
Stevie
Posted on: 30 April 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by joe90:
Steve
Put a backpack on when you hike.
Start at a few pounds, maybe 15 or so (that's where the army starts).
Christ no! My hiking generally involves climbing one or more munros and, unless I'm wild camping, there is no way I'm carrying any more weight than I have to on those trips.
Posted on: 30 April 2004 by joe90
Fair enough Steve.
If you want upper body strength, try pushups, dips, chins. All can be done with the minimum of equipment and cost.
Luck mate.
Joe90
If you want upper body strength, try pushups, dips, chins. All can be done with the minimum of equipment and cost.
Luck mate.
Joe90
Posted on: 01 May 2004 by Naheed
quote:
Originally posted by count.d:
Thanks for the excellent replies.
When the suggestion for heavy weight - low reps, is it a case of finding a weight that I can't physically lift more than 5-7 reps?
And then how many sets of this do you do?
As you can tell, I'm a novice at this.
Find a weight you can manage to get upto 8 reps, but towards the last 2-3 you need to be struggling.
Technique as i mentioned is key, stick with a manageable weight, do not show off, you'll pay in spades later(i decided to bicep curl 70kg, normally manageable, but i really flung it up and down, now may back is knackered)
Others things to remember to not lock out your joints, its causes problems later and its cheating, if you don't lock out the muscle should always remain stressed. Another top Arnie tip is to actually mentally/physically tense the specific area you are training, sounds silly but you'll feel the burn better.
Nowadays i resist the temptation of heavy weights and have gone the cardio route, but my training regime went something like this:
Day one:
Chest - Flat, incline, and decline barbell bench press (3 sets each @ 7-8 reps)
Chest - Flat, incline, and decline dumbell bench press (3 sets each @ 7-8 reps)
Biceps - Wide, normal, close grip barbell curls (3 sets each @ 7-8 reps)
Biceps - Wide, normal, close grip dumbell curls (3 sets each @ 7-8 reps)
Every now and again do some triple drops (21s) described earlier
Day Two
Back - Deadlifting (6 sets each @ 6-7 reps) HEAVY WEIGHTS
Back - Sumo lifts (3 sets each @ 6-7 reps)
Back - Row pulls (3 sets each @ 6-7 reps) HEAVY WEIGHTS
Back - Lateral pulldowns (3 sets each @ 6-7 reps) CLOSE GRIP (Dorian yates style)
Triceps - Push downs (3 sets each @ 6-7 reps)
Triceps - Dumbell kick-backs (3 sets each @ 6-7 reps)
Shoulders - Military press (3 sets each @ 6-7 reps) HEAVY WEIGHTS
Shoulders - Dumbell raises (various angles) (3 sets each @ 6-7 reps)
Day Three
Legs - Squats (6 sets each @ 6-7 reps) HEAVY WEIGHTS
Legs - Forward curls (6 sets each @ 7-8 reps)
Legs - Reverse curls (6 sets each @ 7-8 reps)
Calves - Heel raises (6 sets each @ 7-8 reps) HEAVY WEIGHTS
Day Four
Rest
Day Five
Rest
Day Six
Start with day routine all over again
Always vary your grips widths
Muscle memory - the body is a crafty thing, after time it will actually know your mundane routine and adapt to it, to counteract, every 3-4 weeks mix up you routine, shock your body - THIS IS A MUST
naheed. . .
Posted on: 01 May 2004 by Haroon
quote:
Originally posted by Naheed:
Chest - Flat, incline, and decline barbell bench press (3 sets each @ 7-8 reps)
_naheed. . ._
Is that 3 sets of Flat, 3 sets incline, 3 sets delcline?
Or one set of each type to make the 3 sets?
H.
Posted on: 02 May 2004 by Naheed
quote:
Originally posted by Haroon:quote:
Originally posted by Naheed:
Chest - Flat, incline, and decline barbell bench press (3 sets each @ 7-8 reps)
_naheed. . ._
Is that 3 sets of Flat, 3 sets incline, 3 sets delcline?
Or one set of each type to make the 3 sets?
H.
The former, 3 sets flat, 3 sets incline, and 3 of decline (same logic for all others)
The key is a varied grip. Take the case of biceps, if you as most do, just stick with the conventional shoulder width grip all the time, you'll attain big bicep peaks only, but fairly weedy in width. Alas if you vary the grip (wide, normal, narrow) you also target the inner and outer portion of the biceps, very crucial to definition and well proportioned muscles.
naheed. . .
Posted on: 06 May 2004 by count.d
Thanks to everyone for their time and detailed replies. I will digest all the info and try out these sets.
I'll leave the protein drinks out for now and concentrate on higher weights with lower reps, but without going over the top. I've already done lowish weights with reps of 15 for 3 1/2 months, so I have hopefully toned up the muscle a little. I also run and swim for cardio.
Excellent thread, thanks again.
I'll leave the protein drinks out for now and concentrate on higher weights with lower reps, but without going over the top. I've already done lowish weights with reps of 15 for 3 1/2 months, so I have hopefully toned up the muscle a little. I also run and swim for cardio.
Excellent thread, thanks again.