CD5+FC2 vs Accuphase DP-55V vs Meridian G07

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but to say Naim CD players can't perform is just plain wrong.

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They CAN perform, with a rather limited range of discs, in particular environments, and for a rather limited time period (until the laser fails)

I guess if you like your music presented in a particular way then you would find Naim CDPs highly attractive

However all I can say is : "I just don`t geddit"


As far as "piddling around with cables" is concerned.......some people DO prefer alternatives to those offered by Naim

That`s just plain fact


laurie S

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and for a rather limited time period (until the laser fails)

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Anyone unaware of Laurie on this forum please ignore his random aspersions about CD player reliability, based upon him once knowing someone whose CD player needed a new transport.

For some reason Laurie seems to want to justify his own antiquated CD player by trying to convince himself and everyone else that Naim CD players fall apart after 10 minutes.

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once knowing someone whose CD player needed a new transport.

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Factual correction: Not once but at least 8 which failed in less than 5 years(most within 3)Indeed, The MD at Naim, in a discussion on this Forum on this topic, suggested that laser mechs should be regarded as "consumables"...."like replacing tyres on a car" (I quote)....there you are...straight from the "horses mouth"...

Laurie S

And, I assume Laurie, to make the above comments you have the figures on the percentage of Naim CD players that fail within 5 years. Additionally you obviously have the figures on the failure rate for all other manufacturers and on comparison can show that the Naim Failure rate is much higher than average as you suggest. I'd be interested in seeing these figures

Two years ago I bougth a Nait 5.Then I needed a cd player. I heard many cd players,I heard a Jupiter and I like it a lot . The Rega players are the most warmth,but then I heard a CD 5 , this didn´t fail,the rythm and tautness were the best and then I bougth it

MY system : Naim Nait 5 amplifier,Naim cd 5 ,Epos M 15 speakers,Naca5,FC2

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And, I assume Laurie, to make the above comments you have the figures on the percentage of Naim CD players that fail within 5 years. Additionally you obviously have the figures on the failure rate for all other manufacturers and on comparison can show that the Naim Failure rate is much higher than average as you suggest. I'd be interested in seeing these figures

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Courtesy Naim`s MD:

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The failure rate for lasers in Naim CDPs is about the industry average

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You can take that at face value.


Clearly Naim have the figures you allude; to-I obviously do not. I am content to accept naim`s figures

In MY OWN personal experience, NAIM CDPs have a much WORSE reliablibility record than virtually any other brand......but that`s my own evidence


What Naim claim is fair enough......but NOT when the PRICES for Naim CDPs are way way above industry average!

For the sort of money being charged, I would expect near indestructibility, or, if as claimed, Naim have no control over OEM items, then they could, say, include a few spare mechs in the box, or make it an easy dealer repair...rather than the £500(ish)-return-to-base-job at present.


Laurie S

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For the sort of money being charged, I would expect near indestructibility, or, if as claimed, Naim have no control over OEM items, then they could, say, include a few spare mechs in the box, or make it an easy dealer repair...rather than the £500(ish)-return-to-base-job at present.

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Can't say I totally disagree with you here Laurie, however to my knowledge all CD manufacturers use OEM mechs (with various mods in some case) hence will be prone to similar failure rates IMO, I would expect better reliability overall for Naim players (and other equipment) and I think you do get this. Obviously there will be component failure from time to time and the ability to get items repaired is critical, and here Naim is second to none.

What I object too is you throwing in snide comments about reliability as if generally accepted as a Naim failing, and having no evidence to back this up.

What you should be asking yourself is:- If my CD player goes wrong in 3,5,10 years time will I be able to get it repaired? I take if from your tone that Meridien are still repairing their 10 year old players, (even if this is the case I can assure you it is not true of many manufacturers).


Your point about supplying spare mechs is interesting (at least as an option) but generally no one will spend an extra £100 say for something they hope they never need. Do you see other manufacturers doing this ?(with as you conceed similar failure reates).

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What I object too is you throwing in snide comments about reliability

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Nothing snide about my comments, surely

I have no axe to grind here, I own a lot of Naim kit myself

Let me put it into context:

I personally know of at least 5 CDS2s plus a couple of CDxs whose lasers failed and required replacement between 2 and 4 years from brand new. I know of at least 15 or more players from other brands (Technics,Sony, Marantz,Meridian, Arcam... ) that range in age from a few to 15 years old, have been in constant,daily heavy use for all of their working lives, with not a single failure.

Perhaps my own data is highly unrepresentative of the "norm" but I think you might understand why I reach the conclusions I do

For example, one owner of a CD3 had been out of the country, and the player had only less than a few hundred hours use. The laser failed out of warrantee, and was told sorry.....£300 please (as a special favour the repair had been "capped" from what should have been a £500 repair bill...more than the market value of the working player!)

I have been a long time customer of naim I love their amps. Their kit is undeniably expensive. I, like others don`t mind this, as I believe that quality is worth paying for. Part of the deal, apart from performance and reliability, is customer back-up....which I must say until fairly recently deserved its reputation as second to none

Generally, Naim customers are reasonably intelligent, and go along with all the above, but also realise when they are being "stung"

The Burndy for the CDX2/XPS2 was updated and improved. Dealers must be aware of these improvements some time before they "hit the streets" A customer who has just shelled out, say 5 grand finds out a week or two later that current players are now sold with an improved burndy. What happens...that customer has to pay the FULL retail price for a replacement burndy


I know the counter argument viz: that the improved burndy in no way degrades the performance of the kit as purchased, and the customer has no grounds for complaint........maybe....but it would still leave a very bad taste in the mouth and is the sort of argument one would expect to hear from men in shiny suits and two tone shoes wearing expensive aftershave, rather than a company that claims to have customer care at its heart

I might humbly suggest that it could have been provided at cost...no loss to Naim...and plenty of goodwill earnt (which I might suggest would make more long term commercial sense.....but I am no businessman)

It might be argued that Naim are a commercial outfit, and must charge "commercial" prices....well......I personally don`t mind paying a high initial price upfront if I feel that the company I am buying from actually cares for me after the purchase, rather than taking any opportunity to make me part with cash

As a final note

I recently sent an old (14 years) CD transport off for a service, without original box...just some old cardboard taped together with bubble wrap inside. Returned to me fully seviced (total cost £61 including carriage and packing) with a brand new box and foam inserts included in the itemised £10 postage and packing costs.

A new Naim box costs I believe, c £40

Snide.....just that I recognise true customer care (rather than exploitation) when I see it...or naybe I have a view that is hopelessly romantic and outdated in the modern world

Laurie S

[This message was edited by Laurie Saunders on Thu 24 June 2004 at 13:48.]

José:
Now We are waiting for your comments about the Meridian G 7,ok?

MY system : Naim Nait 5 amplifier,Naim cd 5 ,Epos M 15 speakers,Naca5,FC2

Apparently there isn´t any G07 to test. I'm still wait for one.

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Originally posted by Laurie Saunders:

I cannot respond to that because I have yet to hear it.I can only speak of the "olive" range, which fit, I suggest, the description I gave above.

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ah.. ok you mean the 'cartoon' range.

James

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posted Thu 24 June 04 10:57
Laurie,

I've yet to find a cartridge that outlasted a laser mechanism. Do you find such replacements cost-ineffective? I'd simply consider such outlay as cost of ownership.

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I concur


However I would suggest that as owners of expensive cartridges, we go in with our eyes open to the running costs and life expectancy.The issues involved are all well known

We all know cartridges will wear, can budget/plan for replacements and have a wide choice of options....exactly "like tyres on a car"!!!! It is highly unlikely that our TT will be "junked" when a paticular cartridge becomes unavailable

CDS are sold as "electronics" and we have come to expect long if not indefinite, lifespan. Especially at the elevated prices of the CDS2

As I said above, if the laser is to be treated in the same way as a cartridge, then perhaps I would feel more assured if I was confident that, say, 10 years down the line my CDS2 would not become an expensive doorstop because the particular CD mech is unavailable

Laurie S