Did The OPium Based British Empire Cause Today's Worldwide Junkie Problems ?

Now, Now Graham --

If you can't play nicely...


Cheers,

Tim

No, the junkie's did.

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Originally posted by Jim Lawson:
No, the junkie's did.

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That's a very profound point matey, though I wónder to which Junkies you refer ?

Fritz Von Smack's of Hypocrasy to me

All "OPium Based" junkies have probelms by definition. Their problems then become ours.

I blame Sherlock Holmes!

I heard on the radio that Britain now matches the USA for hard drugs consumption, particularly cocaine.

Give them as much as they need.....to kill themselves quickly. Leave the bodies on the street as a warning to the morons dedicated to starting a habit.

If there wasn't a profit in drug supply they wouldn't bother. Let's not make it worth their while.

Don't (just) cut out the middleman. Cut out the end-user.

Nime

quote:

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Originally posted by Jim Lawson:
All "OPium Based" junkies have probelms by definition. Their problems then become ours.

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It seems that you & Nime and many others seem to think that the classic steriotypical junkie that you see on the telly somehow is responsible for financing the world drug market, I do like your senses of humour I must say.

Fritz Von Victoria was an addict and she was real, unlike Mr Holmes, innit.

P.S. It's my 46th bithday today so I'm now going out to curb my hangover with a stiff old lunchtime fix²

N.B. Somebody sent me a Rolex Oyster, I must say it's fucking horrible and tasteless:

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I blame Sherlock Holmes!

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A interesting note on drugs is that it wasn't considered "a problem" as long as it was something reserved for the "better" people only. Upper clas twits "experimenting with oriental drugs" was OK, ordinary blokes from Liverpool starting to do it in the 1950 - 60's was not.

JohanR

Fritz

Not at all. Lost time at work, family troubles, petty theft and poor health hurt us all. This demand for the substance could come from anyone; from the street person to executive.

Jim

Jim, you sound like somebody who really knows what he's talking about (rare in this place what ?). My point is generally that the mega-business thas's been produced by this original scenario (Hong Kong etc) Burma, I feel has slowly but srely fuelled todays worldwide situation, junkies, persay are maybe just a rtiny percentage of the equation to keep the public away, medicinal opium and it's attrubutes in the cancer world was an earlier thread tried by me, and getting nowhere fast.

Cheers, Fritz Von Andthedamagedone

Why not ask the great british company:

Jardine Matthieson (hope i spelt that right)

They were very active in Hong Kong and China and the Americas.

One of James Clavells books was based around the two larger Hongs of Hong Kong which were :

S.Swire and Son

and

Jardine Matthieson

I believe if my memory is right that the basic trades were based on:

Silk
Opium
Slavery
Sugar

At that time the world was a very different palce than it is today so this should be taken in context of that time.

China was a very big user of Opiates for medical and recreational use.

Africa had a long tradition of slavery between the tribes.

Sugar was a basic crop.

The British were probably the first world power to globalise the above and many world class firms started off in the above before diversifying into equally profitable but less unpleasant trade.

It is a 400 year old European History not just a british one.

Look at what Spain and Portugal achieved in the Americas. Also what France Portugal Holland Belgium Germany etc achieved in Africa and the Middle East and Far East.

We hopefully can learn from History but if you look around the world, Oppression and Exploitation are alive and well.

regards david

If sugar was invented today it would be classed as a dangerous drug and banned worldwide.

Instead they sell it cheaply by the bag and put it in everything including oven-ready chips. The world's population (except myself) is going spherical and dying in much greater numbers than hard drugs can manage alone.

The upside is that sugar addicts don't need to break into my house and workshop to pay for the next bag. There's a nice logic about that.

I'm convinced the weight epidemic, global warming and Aids/HIV is just Mother Earth balancing things up to keep overpopulation under control. Next week a large meteor? Or California going for a dip?

Nime

Good points here. But what about the buy side ?

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I'm convinced the weight epidemic, global warming and Aids/HIV is just Mother Earth balancing things up to keep overpopulation under control. Next week a large meteor? Or California going for a dip?

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How very Malthusian. Some sick bastard said the same thing about the recent Asian Tsunami.

c.170,000 dead is indeed a great tragedy but such a loss would be just a drop in the ocean (please excuse the pun, it really wasn't intended) in terms of Thomas Malthus and his deterministic theories, especially as the loss of life was so widespread.

WRT a large meteor, chances are it would kill all of us off.

Regards,

Steve.

Junkies are just a class of addict. It is quite possible to function and be addicted to a drug but junkies are noticeable by their lack of ability to function societally.

IMO drug problems are a symptomatic of deeper problems in society.

Deane

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Originally posted by Deane F:

IMO drug problems are a symptomatic of deeper problems in society.

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How true. Only the professional classes can afford cocain.

Nime

HI,
I deal with drug abusers as an inherant part of my job. Whilst I agree with whhats been said above re it being indicative of some parts of the society in which we live etc there are other points.

If you didn't have a market, the stuff would go away. In other words people take drugs because they enjoy the effects it has on them. They then either need more to achieve the same effect (thus increasing crime etc to finance the habit), or just stay on the same amount to remain 'tolerant' to the effects and not suffer withdrawl.

Its remarkable how many drug users are given no end of chances to break the habit, with drug programmes on conviction for offences etc, only to be lured back by the need to continue to take the susbstances concerned.

The drug abusers I come into contact with have no concept of remorse when it comes to breaking into your house/car/shed/garage/robbing the elderly woman in the street etc to finance their habit. If they do they then seem to think its up to every one else to get them out of their habit, when realistically they are the only ones who can finish this.

andy c!

quote:

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Originally posted by andy c:

Its remarkable how many drug users are given no end of chances to break the habit, with drug programmes on conviction for offences etc, only to be lured back by the need to continue to take the susbstances concerned.

The drug abusers I come into contact with have no concept of remorse when it comes to breaking into your house/car/shed/garage/robbing the elderly woman in the street etc to finance their habit. If they do they then seem to think its up to every one else to get them out of their habit, when realistically they are the only ones who can finish this.

andy c!

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Andy

I don't wish to cause offence, but you sound like a policeman.

It's just a little one-dimensional is all. No market = no product = no junkie.

I've seen the very worst an opioid habit can do, believe me. I do not believe that drug addiction is a simple problem with a simple solution or that the answer might simply be to say "no".

I strongly suspect that if the drug abusers you come into contact with have no concept of remorse when it comes to breaking into your house/car/shed/garage/robbing the elderly woman in the street then it is highly unlikely that they will nevertheless possess the skill to see that they are in control of their lives and that only they can finish it!

Deane

[This message was edited by Deane F on Tue 18 January 2005 at 9:39.]

Deane

Anyone who even thinks of starting to take drugs is a brain dead zombie. They must be as thick as two short planks even to consider it.

Again the solution is dead easy.

Any one caught dealing is locked up for a long time, say 10 years and their assetts seized to help pay the cost of jailing them etc.

As regards to the pathetic little junkies, lock them up until they are off it and go three months beyond that, even though it will be tough on them. Their future taxes will help pay for it.

If they are daft enough to restart the habit again, throw them inside again and they got another 6 months of hell to endure. The message will soon sink into their heads that it is a total mugs game.
They got the habit, they can get themselves off it.

Regards

Mick

Better not mention the 6 million + (mainly housewives) in Britain that are hoplöessly addicted to prescribed drugs, innit !

Fritz Von I do really love aeroplanes but so much tax payers dosh for something that hasn't even flown (PFI & Peckham tapwater come to mind ?)

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They got the habit, they can get themselves off it.

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In many cases they can't, actually.

Andy.

Deane,
I totally see you point, and you cause me no offence at all

My problem is that whatever habit I choose to take e.g. listening to hi-fi, drinking beer, I neither impart it on anyone else, nor make anyone suffer to fund the habit (My wife might argue about that point LOL).

Whilst I am acutely aware of social pressures faced by some who take both legal and illicict drugs, my patience wears a little thin when they habitually screw the innocent member of the public over to fund such a habit.

If you think that petty crime is not done to fund drug abouse, then I politlely remind you that a massive percentage of persons arrested for crime related offences (as opposed to public oder drunkenness etc) are doing so to fund a drug habit. Please note before you reply I said 'petty' crime e.g. shop theft, handbag snatches, car crime, burglary etc, not organised crime.

I am aware there are also systems in place to assist with coming off such a habit, including prescribed drugs to combat the symptoms of withdrawl, but i see time and time agaim users abuse this process because they cannot, and more importantly, choose not, to kick the habit.

andy c!

This is an interesting piece that is pertinent to this discussion.

New Research on the brain and behavior clarifies the mysteries of addiction

It includes comments on the well-known 1975 study of heroin addiction amongst Vietnam veterans...

Thousands of men got hooked, and 80 percent of those who initially took heroin more than three times became regular users, taking the drug at least once per week. Those who stayed in Vietnam longer often moved on from sniffing to injection. Yet three years after these veterans returned to the States, more than 90 percent had quit ...

The article also reports on the findings of psychiatry professor George Vaillant on the factors that predict success in breaking a drug habit. These include...

Our brains are wired for falling in love, because that's good for nature--but you can short-circuit that pathway with morphine, nicotine, caffeine. Love gets the whole brain involved. Romantic attachment not only competes with the addiction, but takes place in a nonaddictive way.

and...

Charismatic religions offer a conversion experience, as described by William James and C.G. Jung. Suddenly you find your higher power, and booze is no longer important ...

In my opinion, scientific thinking outranks political thinking - unless the science itself is politically motivated.

Steve

quote:

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Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Deane

Anyone who even thinks of starting to take drugs is a brain dead zombie. They must be as thick as two short planks even to consider it.

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Mick

What about single malt? Alcohol surely is a drug, definitely bad for the health in even the slightest excess, is addictive, and is linked to crime. Presumeably anyone who even thinks of starting to take alcohol is a brain dead zombie too?

Why, I remember a reformed alcoholic here in New Zealand recounting how he beat a pensioner in the pub toilets and stole his pension so he, Bob, could keep on drinking.

Could we apply the "dead easy" solution and lock up the "problem drinkers" (or "drinkies") as well?

I trust that you, Mick, have more than two thick planks and have never even thought of touching such a dangerous drug as alcohol.

Deane

I also trust that Mick has more than two thick planks.

The recent Christmas taught me that Malt is nasty stuff.

One of the two bottles I acquired during this period is still half full (or empty) and will stay that way for some considerable time to come.

I agree that it tastes nice though.

Yes the Opium based Empire looks as though it's slowly grinding to a halt, innit.


Fritz Von Time for another War then eh `?