digital video camera -- advice please
Posted by: Joe Petrik on 16 August 2004
Several weeks ago my wife and I become new parents and we're falling into the trap we said we'd avoid -- filming the child so we can annoy the piss out of friends and relatives. (Actually, both grandmothers would be pleased to have footage of the kiddo as we live about ~800 km from the closest relative and they won't see her much.)
Can anyone give advice on what features might be useful in a digital video camera, as well as models to try? We don't need anything fancy or expensive, just good enough that viewers won't cringe because of bad picture and sound. For lack of a better word, we're looking for the Rega P3 of video cameras -- something that's simple to use and does the job.
I recently bought a new Mac that I assume will accept a digital signal directly through its USB or Firewire port, so I'm interested in a camera that lets you download video to the computer after the fact for splicing and editing. (I assume this is the way it works -- dump video and sound into iMovie for editing, then burn to DVD with iDVD -- or will I need to buy some widget or software?)
Thanks,
Joe
Posted on: 18 August 2004 by Mike Hanson
I've got a JVC 720 MiniDV, which does everything you desire. I purchased it about 2.5 years ago for approx. $1000Cdn (plus a few $100 more for accessories). They're all pretty generic, and JVCs tend to be much cheaper than Sonys for the same feature set. Also, make sure that you get an extra battery or two.
BTW, I bought about 20 tapes, but I didn't need them all. I capture most of my stuff to the PC using semi-lossless compression. HD space is cheap, and now I can assemble only the good parts for shorter, more entertaining movies. Pinnacle Studio works very well for this. Once I've created it, I can post it on the Internet for my family's enjoyment, save it to DVDs, etc. (It can even create DVD menus, etc., although I haven't bothered to do any of the DVD stuff yet.) So far, everyone's happy to have access to baby pictures and movies on Bryn's own website.
-=> Mike Hanson <=-
Posted on: 19 August 2004 by Joe Petrik
Thanks, Mike.
quote:
I've got a JVC 720 MiniDV, which does everything you desire. I purchased it about 2.5 years ago for approx. $1000Cdn
I assume that the 720 is no longer available new, as Japanese manufacturers are not inclined to keep the same unit in production over the long haul, so do you know what equivalent current model is?
quote:
I can assemble only the good parts for shorter, more entertaining movies
That's key to not being throttled by your family -- edit, edit, edit.
Joe
Posted on: 20 August 2004 by Rasher
Joe
Been there - done it.
Do you want to spend evenings on the computer making edited movies, or are you like me where you find the tape full and it is an emergency because you need the video camera, so just need to download the tape quick? (I only have 1 tape - too tempting to let them pile up otherwise) I fully intended to edit the movies, but I have never managed to find the time to do one yet.
The easiest way is to buy a DVD digital video camera, so it just uses blank DVD's - problem solved - but expensive and you are buying a DVD recorder that you can't use for any other purpose.
I was daunted by the DVD recording bit, but I now have a Panasonic DVD recorder into which I just plug the camera, select the input, play the tape and press record on the recorder. Straight onto DVD and it is amazingly easy. Blank DVD's cost next to nothing now, and you are free to get a nice dinky DV video camera.
You can of course use the DVD's to compile an edited movie later if you ever find the time - just download them into the computer.
Works well for me anyway.
I'm currently transferring all those VHS tapes onto DVD and gaining enormous amounts of shelf space. Best of both worlds.
Posted on: 20 August 2004 by blythe
You can get a Sony mini DV camera for around £500 now that will have DV in and out - useful if you do want to edit on your MAC and then record the edited footage back onto digital tape. Nice way to keep the archived footage and then every VHS copy you might make will still be top quality too.
I use my PC for editing and use Pinnacle Studio to do it, though I understand the MAC software is very good too.
If I were buying a camera now, I'd just go for a nice cheap one, one that you're happy is easy enough to handle, as you can edit on your MAC you don't need loads of built in special efects, some may have a built in light (of limited use as they only work close to subjects) Some cameras charge their batteries "on camera" which can mean if you have a spare battery, you can't be charging the flat one whilst your videoing.. A seperate charger means you can be charging and still use the camera. I think all USA bought cameras come with DV in & out.
I think quality wise, if it's basically for filming the kids etc. you won't be disappointed with any of the DV cameras.
Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......
Posted on: 20 August 2004 by blythe
quote:
Originally posted by blythe:
You can get a Sony mini DV camera for around £500 now that will have DV in and out - useful if you do want to edit on your MAC and then record the edited footage back onto digital tape. Nice way to keep the archived footage and then every VHS copy you might make will still be top quality too.
I use my PC for editing and use Pinnacle Studio to do it, though I understand the MAC software is very good too.
If I were buying a camera now, I'd just go for a nice cheap one, one that you're happy is easy enough to handle, as you can edit on your MAC you don't need loads of built in special efects, some may have a built in light (of limited use as they only work close to subjects) Some cameras charge their batteries "on camera" which can mean if you have a spare battery, you can't be charging the flat one whilst your videoing.. A seperate charger means you can be charging and still use the camera. I think all USA bought cameras come with DV in & out - this connects the camera directly to your computer via the Firewire port so you can save, edit, store the digital movie.
I think quality wise, if it's basically for filming the kids etc. you won't be disappointed with any of the DV cameras.
Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......
Posted on: 15 September 2004 by Joe Petrik
Thanks for the advice. I've done some searches, read some reviews, and we decided to get a Canon Optura 40 videocam.
But now my head is spinning again. Can anyone tell me what type of DVD media I should use when burning the edited audio and video from the computer to a DVD that's meant to be fully playable/compatible in a stand-alone DVD player?
FYI: The computer is a Mac G5 and the editing and burning software will be, respectively, iMovie and iDVD -- but the computer is not what the discs will be played on.
Thanks,
Joe
Posted on: 16 September 2004 by Mike Hanson
I've got a TDK multi-burner connected via USB2 that can do a bunch of formats. All I've tried so far, however, is DVD+R. It works find in the burner, but it can't be read by the DVD-ROM drive in my main machine. I haven't tried it in any of my other machines, and I haven't tried burning a "real" DVD to include movies, as this basic failure indicated that it's not worth progressing further with DVD+R. I've got a stack of DVD+R's that I'll use for back-ups, and then I'll proceed on to DVD-R, etc.
-=> Mike Hanson <=-
Posted on: 16 September 2004 by Mike Hanson
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Petrik:
we decided to get a Canon Optura 40 videocam.
BTW, I've fallen in love with Canon digital in general. I own a G3, and lust after either a Digital Rebel 300D or the new 20D. If my G3 died, I would probably get one of those, and possibly also a G6 for its compactness.
-=> Mike Hanson <=-
Posted on: 16 September 2004 by Joe Petrik
Hey, Mike.
quote:
It works find in the burner, but it can't be read by the DVD-ROM drive in my main machine. I haven't tried it in any of my other machines, and I haven't tried burning a "real" DVD to include movies, as this basic failure indicated that it's not worth progressing further with DVD+R.
So DVD
+R is out if you want the disc to play in a DVD player? Are you suggesting that DVD
-R is what I should try, or are you not sure yourself? What I’m asking is the type of blank DVD to buy if the disc is meant to be played on a DVD player, as opposed to a DVD drive on a computer.
quote:
BTW, I've fallen in love with Canon digital in general. I own a G3, and lust after either a Digital Rebel 300D or the new 20D.
The Digital Rebel is a solid entry-level digital SLR (a guy at work has one and I've seen the results), but most of the accolades for a D-SLR under $1k US are going to the Nikon D70.
Joe
Posted on: 16 September 2004 by Arun Mehan
Dudes,
If you want a disc that can played anytime and anywhere, go for DVD-R. That's the classic and everyone supports it whereas DVD+R is supported by Philips, Sony, Yamaha and a few others.
Of course the standalone player should be fairly new because some of the older units might not be able to play it. Usually if the standalone supports VCD, MP3 etc. it should support anything your G5 can throw at it.
Please try it first and then go buy the money-saving bulk pack
Posted on: 16 September 2004 by Joe Petrik
Arun,
quote:
If you want a disc that can played anytime and anywhere, go for DVD-R.
Thanks, bro'. I just checked Apple's site and the blank DVD media they sell and recommend is DVD-R.
Just out of curiosity, what's the difference between these DVD formats? This DVD plus/minus business has me baffled. Plus/minus what?
Joe
Posted on: 17 September 2004 by Arun Mehan
Joe,
Just like the CD evolution, DVD started without the ability for consumer burning. Then came the DVD-R and DVD-RW etc. Well, some smartass innovator decided he could improve the format and being the smartass that he is, decided to change the minus sign to a plus sign. It must have been absolutely clear to him, but most people find it very confusing. I'm not an engineer so can't tell you what those improvements mean for the average bloke. I'm sure you can find out on the internet if you are so inclined.
Say, why don't you send me a pic of the US Petrik clan since you have all those new toys
Posted on: 17 September 2004 by Derek Wright
Joe
Doing a direct copy from another forum - to check what DVDs can be used in your DVD writer
Start up Terminal from Utilities in Applications
at the command prompt type
drutil info
hit enter and the system will return details of the drives including the CD/DVD drive
Apologies for ovate extraction lesson
Derek
<< >>
Posted on: 17 September 2004 by Joe Petrik
Derek, Arun... thanks.
quote:
Apologies for ovate extraction lesson
No apology necessary. I never would have guessed doing what you suggested I try. Instead, I would have spent hours looking for some pretty icon thingy to click on in the hopes it would answer my question. (I'm very much a "click on thing that looks like the thing I want to do" kind of guy -- but only with computers.
)
Joe
Posted on: 17 September 2004 by Derek Wright
Joe
I cannot claim any greatness for the tip - I read it in another forum in the last 24 hours - one the DPREview fora - some good stuff to learn from.
Have you had a look at the Missing Manual for Panther - it may help or clarify a few things
Derek
<< >>
Posted on: 17 September 2004 by Joe Petrik
Derek,
quote:
Have you had a look at the Missing Manual for Panther - it may help or clarify a few things
No, but I just had a peak on Amazon.com and it looks like a good reference. Thanks.
On a different note, have you picked up one of
these? A little overpriced, but at least this mouse has extra buttons and a scroll wheel *and* matches the aesthetics of your computer, unlike every other rodent I've seen.
Joe
Posted on: 17 September 2004 by Derek Wright
Joe
Thanks for the pointer - I will see if I can pick one up in the next few weeks - I have not got to grips with the single button way of working yet - I have spent too many years in a 3 button world.
On the book side, the Scott Kelby's book "The Photoshop CS book for digital photographers" has been very useful and has given me some very useful pointers within a few pages of reading.
However as you are already into PS it may not be as interesting to you.
On the photo display side I prefer QPict to IPhoto as it does not appear to be so intrusive in the way it handles the image files and works more how I want it to work, ie be responsive to the directories I have the files in rather than mush them into an overwhelming file structure.
Mozilla has proved to be more effective in working with web sites than Safari.
That's the limit of my meagre experience so far, I need more time to read how to exploit underpinnings of the Unix structure
Derek
<< >>
Posted on: 18 September 2004 by Mike Hanson
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Petrik:
So DVD_+_R is out if you want the disc to play in a DVD player? Are you suggesting that DVD_-_R is what I should try, or are you not sure yourself? What I’m asking is the type of blank DVD to buy if the disc is meant to be played on a DVD player, as opposed to a DVD drive on a computer.
Sorry, I wasn't entirely clear. Yes, DVD+R seems to be bad. No, I don't know the best alternative (although according to these messages it sounds like DVD-R will do the trick).
quote:
The Digital Rebel is a solid entry-level digital SLR (a guy at work has one and I've seen the results), but most of the accolades for a D-SLR under $1k US are going to the Nikon D70.
Yes, I realize the D70 gets lots of good press. However, the Canons fair very well too, and I prefer the UI over the Nikon (although this is probably just familiarity talking). I've come to the stage where I'm sick of learning how to use all of these stupid little devices with their disparate interfaces. I can't understand by whey haven't developed mind control for these things yet.
-=> Mike Hanson <=-
