Bi-Amp

Yuri,

Yes it's possible to bi-amp via the use of a Hicap. But why would you want to biamplify your ES11s? Recently, I was considering bi-amping my Sonus Faber Concertos with 2 NAP250s, and found the gains (increased headroom) completely outweighed by the loss of excitement and cohesion of music presented by a single 250.

What your 82 needs desperately is a Hicap, and preferably two, to sing properly. As good as the in-built power supply is in the 180, it really constrains the 82. A Supercap apparent doubles the music of twinned Hicaps on a 82.

Having separate *cap(s) on your 82 also allows you to drive fully regulated NAPs such as 250 or 135s. The difference these better amps make in contrast to the NAP180 is, IMO, greater than biamping. For the record, a pair of 135s outperforms by a considerable margin two 250s biamping my Sonus Fabers. I suspect you would experience a similar improvement *capping your 82 in the first instance.

James

Resistance is Futile

you have yet to explain how he can bi-amp, u mention thru the hicap, how is this done? xtra cables required?

please xplain for our benefit.

ta.

The connections to bi-amp are: -

Preamp - SNAIC5 - *cap - SNAIC4 (x2 or 3) - power amps (x2 or 3).

As mentioned above, Naim do not feel this is a worthwhile musical improvement for the expenditure involved.

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com

"A Supercap apparent(ly) doubles the music of twinned Hicaps on a 82."

It does more than that, it totally elevates the music and makes a very coherent whole in a way the 2 hicaps never do. The 82/Supercap/250 is a supremely integrated amplifier.

I hate to think what some of you will think of this... but it is possible to bi-amp without a whatevercap - however, you need to make your own cable to connect the 5-pin output on the preamp to the 4-pin input on the second power amp. I have done this with my 72/140/180 (and subsequently 82/140/180), and the result was a definite improvement over either of the power amps individually (although how it would have compared to using a *cap I don't know - probably not favourably).

In case anyone's interested, what led me to this was that when I bought a second-hand 72, it didn't have the link plug with it, so I had to examine a friend's and figure out how it worked - it didn't take long to realise that it's just a 5-pin Din plug with two of the terminals connected together. This made me wonder if a signal was being output through the remaining pins if the link was in place, and lo and behold, it is!

Phil

PS. James's post really cheered me up, as I'm about to become the owner of a Supercap and a pair of 135s. I'm gagging for them!

Phil
I'm surprised with your post.
I tried biamping in exactly the same manner(no PSU) with a 110 and a converted 110-->140

The results were dire---a strangled mid heavy unmusical sound.On ringing Naim about something else I bought up my exploits as the results denied all theory(I've biamped on a previous non- Naim system).
Their reasoning explained all--- that there is simply not enough current supplied by a single line 140 powering the preamp to supply both power amps.
I know the supply of the 180 is superior--bigger toroidal,smoothing cap and better regulated--maybe this explains your listenable results.

But a flatcap can be picked up for £190 S/H and does make quite a difference in a monoamp setup.
?Makes things even better in a biamp as much more current.

Biamping(via a hicap) a pair of MA's with 250 and recapped 160 made only a little difference. These speakers biwired very sucessfully with my old non-naim system(have a 1 element xover)--so should have worked very well.

Biamping the 110/140 through a snaps2 then Hicap gave slightly more focus and a tauter bass over the 140 on its own--not worth buying an extra 110 or 140 though---buy a Mana soundtable, better cartridge or hicap for example.

Biamping is not semi-active(only small improvements)
In my experience(IMHO) biamping works less well than with other makes(cheaper) that I've tried--? ?becuase 1 Naim amp supplies the speaker with enough current and control anyway?

Cheers
Richard(soon to go active)

Hi Richard
When you used a Snaps 2 with the 110/140,did you resolder the signal wires from socket 3 to socket 2(instead of 3 to 4) ?
And did you then use socket1 and 3 for the power amps and socket2 for the Preamp?
I ask because I don´t get my biamping to work,when connecting the poweramps to socket 1 and 4 (as it says on the backot theSnaps)and the Preamp to the dualrailed socket 2.Obviously there is no connection between socket 2 and 4 ,so it´s not strange I think it´s originally supposed to be a active crossover connected to socket 3.
Hope you understand what I mean.

Regards Börje

Hi,
to create a Snaps'2' from a Snaps requires a new 5 pin socket to be added in place of one of the existing ones and both power leads(orange) from the printed circuit board to be directed towards this 5 pin socket making a dual 24v supply(like a hicap) to connect to the preamp hicap socket(the one with the blanking plug)

In the standard snaps ALL the 4 sockets have a signal going to them
Socket 1 and 4 have left,right channels and earth only
sockets 2 and 3 have left,right,earth and 1x 24v to go to the preamp 'amp' socket or a Old type single rail Naxo
So in the normal snaps your amp should recieve signal from any of the 4 sockets BUT! if connected to socket 2 or 3 the poweramp will recieve 24v as well! from the snaps which it certainly doesn't need and will be loaded against its own 24v rail--damaging and may cause malfunction

From what you are saying when the person who converted your snaps to a snaps2 they have not rewired the signal to sockets 1 + 4 but only to socket 3

Inside there should be short wires(?blue) soldered between each left channel pin of ALL the 4 sockets
the same withe the right channel(?blue) and earth(green)

You should therefore have a look inside
Resoldering is very fiddley and you need high quality joints--forget the naim diagrams on the back of the unit--someone has altered them all obviously

If things work for the biamping then don't worry about the no. of the socket
BUT MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE NOT CONNECTING A POWER AMP TO A SOCKET THAT HAS A 24 SUPPLY WIRE GOING TO THE +24V PIN--WILL NOT DO IT MUCH GOOD
I've not tried this but assume smoke would ensue

?Clear as mud
repost if you don't understand and I'll have another go

Cheers Richard

Ps my snaps has socket2 as the new 5 pin --socket 1 and 4 to the amps(no 24v) (as original) and socket 3 pretty redundant---but identical to sockets 1 and 4 --i.e signal only as I moved its original orange power lead from socket 3 to add to socket 2 to give the DUAL 24v rails

[This message was edited by Richard Paget on SATURDAY 23 December 2000 at 12:24

[This message was edited by Richard Paget on SATURDAY 23 December 2000 at 12:25.]

Richard Thank you very much for your answer!.
Now I know how to solder the Snaps.
Best Regards Börje

hi again all
just like to thank all who posted
most of all phill,hope you enjoy the scap&135s
(lucky b*****d )
regards yuri