Lingo - any supporters?

I thoroughly researched this question on the old forum a while ago when my valhalla failed. My conclusion: you have to make a choice on faith, since it's really hard to listen to the 2 side-by-side and because the philosophies of the 2 companies are opposite.

As for philosophy, Linn thinks Lingo first, then the upgraded arm. Naim thinks ARO first, then upgraded PSU.

The only place where I could listen to both (Innovative in Manhattan) refused, saying that one should stay all Linn or all Naim on the LP12. I think Accent on Music in Mt. Kisco, NY is more open to the Lingo/'geddon dem, and I know nothing of the resources offered in the UK.

In any case, the Lingo is pretty important if you want to play 45 RPM records.

Supporters of the 'geddon indicate that a 'geddoned LP12 provides a more coherent musical experience (my paraphrase) than valhalla or Lingo. I got that response via a couple of private e-mails to forum 'geddon users. Also, Art Dudley of Listener chose the 'geddon for this reason.

Most of the old forum's comments on the Lingo were in defense against the charge that the Lingo is incompatible with Naim electronics, perhaps because of it's power supply circuitry.

Despite many challenges from Lingoists for details about the charge, no one on the forum could provide any. I concluded that early Lingos MIGHT cause a problem that Naim didn't circumvent, but that if so, it hadn't been a problem for several years. Later some people mentioned a special Linn cable which prevents the problem, but apparently you hear a difference, so that's what counts, at least in your system.

The Wes Phillips Stereophile review in the 2/96 issue reported the Lingo added an octave of bass extension when compared to the 'geddon. He reported that PR&T was better with the 'geddon; 'midrange tonality' (my term - and bass, of course) was better with the Lingo. Wes chose the 'geddon, but he really wanted both.

Art Dudley, in his review, reported that on some records he heard better hifi with the 'geddon; on others he couldn't hear a difference in particular sonic characteristics, but that he almost always found the music more involving. Artie like the Pink Linnk better than the 'geddon; he hasn't reviewed the Lingo.

So, you have several choices:

1) buy the 'geddon on faith
2) get a 'geddoned LP12 with a copy of your tone arm and cartridge and compare the two at home; choose whatever you like best
3) buy a 'geddoned LP12 to go with your Lingoed one, so you can play an LP with either or both
4) stay with the Lingo.

Before you do anything, what arm do you have? If you preferred the ARO over the EKOS, perhaps you'll prefer the 'geddon, and if you liked the EKOS, perhaps you're a Lingo guy - always assuming that the juxtaposition of the Naim and Linn stuff isn't what you really like best!

If you have an Ittok or Akito, maybe a new arm would be your best bet.

BTW, I just couldn't decide which PSU to get, so I rebuilt my valhalla and bought an ARO. I'm now listeneing to vinyl about 85% of the time.

Regards.

Phil

[This message was edited by Phil Barry on WEDNESDAY 24 January 2001 at 20:50.]

[This message was edited by Phil Barry on WEDNESDAY 24 January 2001 at 20:54.]

A properly set up Aro still does not have quite the bass weight of an Ekos but I think sounds more natural overall and definitely superior from the midrange on up. From the midrange down I would give the Ekos a slight edge and a larger edge in the bass.

Also, both arms (in particular) will appeal to different folks--having owned both I think they're both great and the two best choices for an LP12. I'm less convinced by the Lingo now than I used to be; which may be a result of owning an Armageddon now. The Lingo definitely upgrades an LP12 significantly but it may be more of a sonic upgrade than a musical one. The Armageddon is the reverse--more a musical upgrade than sonic.

Cheers,

Bob

Ride the Light

Thanks for clarifying the non-scientific elements of Wes Phillips' side-by-side comparison. It's been a tough day, and I forgot to put in the caveats you reminded everubody about.

There are a couple of keys for me:

1) If you're committed to the LP12, you've got a choice between 2 great arms and at least 2 great PSUs.

2) It's really hard - and expensive - to do an objective comparison of the 2 PSUs unless you've positively absolutely got your final tonearm.

Talking of reviews, there've been 2 UK reviews in recent years:

1. Martin Colloms in Hi-Fi News, where he compared two LP12s both using the same ARO armtube and cartridge. He came out in favour of the Geddon (especially when using a Prefix), but curiously has continued to use a Lingo in his home system, with an Aro (reverse Ross).

2. Hi-Fi World compared 4 supplies, those two plus the Norton (more bass than the Geddon, messier mid and treble); and the Manticore, which is a crystal-type like the Lingo and apparently better in all areas. I don't know if this company is still trading.

I may try and borrow an LP12 with a Geddon and Aro (my arm), but of course I'd also like to compare with LP12 Lingo Ekos II Arkiv B!

Yes, I prefer the Naim power supply, but the Lingo is still a fine improvement over the valhalla. I find there is more synergy between Armageddon and ARO than there is between Armageddon and EKOS.

I have always found the EKOS to be the lesser of the two arms except in dynamics where it certainly sounds to me like the bigger portrayal. I don't like what appears to me to be the EKOS's somewhat mechanical, detached presentation, by comparison to the ARO's more fluid one.

Therefore I find an ARO works very well with a Lingo supply attached to the deck, and I prefer it to the EKOS in that scenario anway.

As to the cue - it is difficult for any shop to justify holding both decks ('Naim' version and Linn version) in its stock on the basis of a handful of sales per year. These are high cost items against which we see very little return.

In the last year there really have been just a handful of full LP12 sales, though there have been more arms and cartridges. When you consider that we variously have 3 or 4 high-end decks in the shop (Michell, Linn, Rega P9, Well Tempered) to support this low number of sales, that seems more like a service than an actual sales booster.

We do it because we love it, so we only support that configuration which we consider to be the best, or most sensible and saleable, for that deck.

Regards,
Frank.

My recent chat with him revealed a dislike for the ARO, but it seems to be based on his Linn style perception of what is 'right'. His argument was mechanical rather than musical!. Curiously he has a higher opinion of the Armageddon, probably because it is less radical than the ARO.

Personally, I will probably wish to upgrade my Ittok in the future, my own unwavering faith in Naim's ability to 'get it right' coupled to the fact the ARO is significantly cheaper than the Ekos will probably result in my going this route on faith alone.

To get back on subject (!), I would agree with Frank that the Lingo does offer a significant improvement in performance, coupled with a great deal of convenience. I haven't heard the Armageddon, but my own decision would probably be swayed by the convenience factor of the Lingo, if you don't need 45's, the Armageddon may well integrate into a Naim system better.

Andy.

Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com

I carried out some testing at home and my results are in the chat on my CD report. In summary the Lingo seemed to have a big effect on the performance of my system.

Nigel

Sorry...

dunno whether this helps, but when i changed from lingo to armageddon (and at the same time prefixed the tt) the difference was quite substantial in musical aspects. i sort of suspect the geddon/prefix/aro is the ingredient that stops me from selling my lp12 and all things vinyl whenever such mad thoiughts enter my mind.
the upgrade for my was so big that i was annoyed that my dealer hadnt told me about it earlier... but then my dealer, personally, wasnt so keen on the whole idea anyway... respect his honesty -- so, fair enough.

enjoy...

ken

In some ways I prefer the Valhalla to the Lingo!

cheers, Martin

quote:

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ascending order
Mana reference <lingo<geddon/avondale(tie)<aro
Not that the mana isn't good--many on here have commented on the difference in part being room dependent(makes sense)

---

IME, and it's early days yet on the Aro, I'd place Phase 1 Mana above the Lingo and below the Aro in terms of performance gains. Phase 5 Mana is a different story altogether - it's a greater improvement than the Aro (although I reckon the Aro changes different things, so it's all apples and oranges in that respect).

Don't regret a single thing:

LP12/Cirkus/Lingo/Aro/Asaka - on Phase 5, sounding a million bucks...

John

the Lingo works it's dirty deed by placing RF filtering components on the mains line.

If you have anything else with Switched Mode power supplies (e.g. PC) on the same ring/spur this will also have the same effect. If the Lingo is unplugged but the other left in you may notice no difference.

cheers, Martin