"If you don't vote you've got no right to complain" - refuted
Posted by: Deane F on 20 November 2004
This refrain from the self-righteous voter has always got on my nerves. Here is how I see it:
Casting a vote in a democratic election implies that the person casting that vote agrees with the democratic system.
An agreement with the democratic system implies that the outcome is seen as fair by all voters even when some of those voters did not vote for the winner of said election.
If the participants have all agreed in this way that the outcome is fair then all voters have given a mandate to the elected government. This includes even those voters who, by their votes, did not intend to give a mandate to the elected government.
If all voters have given a mandate to the elected government then the statement is true that "if you do vote then you've got no right to complain."
In my view, everybody within the territory of a sovereign nation has the right to complain about it's government. The statement that non-voters have no right to complain seems to hide an assumption that voting is the only participation in government allowed to citizens of democratic states.
Deane
Casting a vote in a democratic election implies that the person casting that vote agrees with the democratic system.
An agreement with the democratic system implies that the outcome is seen as fair by all voters even when some of those voters did not vote for the winner of said election.
If the participants have all agreed in this way that the outcome is fair then all voters have given a mandate to the elected government. This includes even those voters who, by their votes, did not intend to give a mandate to the elected government.
If all voters have given a mandate to the elected government then the statement is true that "if you do vote then you've got no right to complain."
In my view, everybody within the territory of a sovereign nation has the right to complain about it's government. The statement that non-voters have no right to complain seems to hide an assumption that voting is the only participation in government allowed to citizens of democratic states.
Deane
Deane, and here's how I see it.
A subject close to my heart; and even though it's also been discussed before at
length here, and I think it's important, as (Tony Blair & increasingly of late a
certain newly re-elected Chief Executive) would/do often say that Democracy and
the right to vote are not minimalised in any way. Firstly I refer to elections
based around modern wetstern Cities like London, Christchurch, Berlin, Telaviv,
etc, that apply more dierectly to our own experiences of choosing wether to
vote or not. My view is always that if one does have the privelage to vote, then
casting a spoilt ballot deliberately is quite as acceptable (Protest) as casting
a valid one, the point being you have cast an opinion, and subsequently have the
moral (legally-Peacefull) right to both publically demonstrate and complain. If
you have voted and your choice isn't the winner, then naturtally one can
complain, but about the opposition's policies, and not the system itself, which
in all Countries is/are ever changing (non partisan for the better?) to ensure
minimal cheating, fraud, & indimidation as is always the want of mnay Human
beings when mega power stakes are on the table, it being the nature of the
beast, and the system developed to counter that horrible truth from getting its
own way unopposed, an ever developing safety mechanism to optimistically
though realistically help us all get as near as we can to this thoing we call
Democracy,if you get my drift ? I don't think I'll go into the ins and outs of
other Countries trials and tribulations on this fairness subject, you can maybe
imagine, N.Ireland, future Palestine, Uganda, Switzerland, Zimbabwe, etc, etc,
as places far devoid of those freedoms.
That's it for now I reckon, have a good day now.
Graham Von West Ham (My favourite football team) & Millwall (My least favourite
football team) fans today will no doubt take two minutes silence to repect the
shock of those nasty racist Spaniards of late and hope such things never happen
in England (I think not )
P.S. I'll bet those guys from Pitcairn thought, "me getting tried for my crimes"
(knowingly doing wrong, and against their own modern religious codex let alone
the law) "never in a million years", Seemingly What goes around really does come
around Mr Christian !!!", dunnit ?
A subject close to my heart; and even though it's also been discussed before at
length here, and I think it's important, as (Tony Blair & increasingly of late a
certain newly re-elected Chief Executive) would/do often say that Democracy and
the right to vote are not minimalised in any way. Firstly I refer to elections
based around modern wetstern Cities like London, Christchurch, Berlin, Telaviv,
etc, that apply more dierectly to our own experiences of choosing wether to
vote or not. My view is always that if one does have the privelage to vote, then
casting a spoilt ballot deliberately is quite as acceptable (Protest) as casting
a valid one, the point being you have cast an opinion, and subsequently have the
moral (legally-Peacefull) right to both publically demonstrate and complain. If
you have voted and your choice isn't the winner, then naturtally one can
complain, but about the opposition's policies, and not the system itself, which
in all Countries is/are ever changing (non partisan for the better?) to ensure
minimal cheating, fraud, & indimidation as is always the want of mnay Human
beings when mega power stakes are on the table, it being the nature of the
beast, and the system developed to counter that horrible truth from getting its
own way unopposed, an ever developing safety mechanism to optimistically
though realistically help us all get as near as we can to this thoing we call
Democracy,if you get my drift ? I don't think I'll go into the ins and outs of
other Countries trials and tribulations on this fairness subject, you can maybe
imagine, N.Ireland, future Palestine, Uganda, Switzerland, Zimbabwe, etc, etc,
as places far devoid of those freedoms.
That's it for now I reckon, have a good day now.
Graham Von West Ham (My favourite football team) & Millwall (My least favourite
football team) fans today will no doubt take two minutes silence to repect the
shock of those nasty racist Spaniards of late and hope such things never happen
in England (I think not )
P.S. I'll bet those guys from Pitcairn thought, "me getting tried for my crimes"
(knowingly doing wrong, and against their own modern religious codex let alone
the law) "never in a million years", Seemingly What goes around really does come
around Mr Christian !!!", dunnit ?
The problem with democracy is that only the winner gets a seat. If every single candidate from the winning party had only 51% of the votes that half the population are completely unrepresented!
My next complaint against the democratic system is the unrepresentative leadership. Which totally ignores even its own party members once elected to the leadership position.
The only retraint on such leadership is a completely free press. But who owns the press?
Nime
My next complaint against the democratic system is the unrepresentative leadership. Which totally ignores even its own party members once elected to the leadership position.
The only retraint on such leadership is a completely free press. But who owns the press?
Nime
David
I'm given to understand by media reports that voting is not so easy in the US. For instance the election was on a weekday (why was that??) and don't voters have to cast the vote in their home precinct? Elections here are held on Saturdays and you can cast your vote from wherever you are, in or out of the country, by way of a special vote.
I think I am lucky to have a vote but I do not see it as a privilege. Honour and privilege are obligations that fall upon those that are elected to govern. The Sword of Damocles dangles over a feast table, after all.
Steve
Perhaps you are too hard on your fellow countrymen?
No seat is truly safe. Many a government has lost an election by overestimating loyalty. My father was the safest National Party (Tory equivalent here) voter there ever was - until the last election. He was so disillusioned with them he voted for the Green Party
in the last election which really shocked me. The National Party has lost a huge amount of support here and it's people like my father that they are losing. People who've never thought of the issues at election time and just voted like they have for their whole lives.
Deane
I'm given to understand by media reports that voting is not so easy in the US. For instance the election was on a weekday (why was that??) and don't voters have to cast the vote in their home precinct? Elections here are held on Saturdays and you can cast your vote from wherever you are, in or out of the country, by way of a special vote.
I think I am lucky to have a vote but I do not see it as a privilege. Honour and privilege are obligations that fall upon those that are elected to govern. The Sword of Damocles dangles over a feast table, after all.
Steve
Perhaps you are too hard on your fellow countrymen?
No seat is truly safe. Many a government has lost an election by overestimating loyalty. My father was the safest National Party (Tory equivalent here) voter there ever was - until the last election. He was so disillusioned with them he voted for the Green Party
in the last election which really shocked me. The National Party has lost a huge amount of support here and it's people like my father that they are losing. People who've never thought of the issues at election time and just voted like they have for their whole lives.Deane
Should those people in last years widely publicised poatal vote fiasco that didn'zt get to vote, though wanted to very much have the the right to complain. The FIASCO was condemned from all sides, but fell upon deaf ears, and will soon be repeated once again, here I refer to BRITAIN, YES BRITAIN´; pleaqse get your prioroities right and stick with the original question, all off on the uual tangents on such an impotent issue, I really think it's ok that non of us in truth give a fuck, but we must never assume such ideas for others.
Graham Von I'vefinoishedonthisthreadwarbleonplease
Graham Von I'vefinoishedonthisthreadwarbleonplease
quote:
Originally posted by Deane F:quote:
Originally posted by Berlin Fritz:
pleaqse get your prioroities right and stick with the original question, all off on the uual tangents on such an impotent issue, I really think it's ok that non of us in truth give a fuck, but we must never assume such ideas for others.
Digression is an important part of discussion. I value that on this forum threads often diverge from their original topic.
Deane
That's a very very Robinsonesque statement Deane.
Cheers, Fritz