What to play a sceptic?

Posted by: MerryDance on 11 December 2004

Most of us are familiar with comments from friends and family who aren't into Hi-Fi (and let's face it most aren't)along the lines of "What are all those black boxes for?". "Can't you hide the speakers in the wall?" "I wouldn't be able to hear the difference" and perhaps most discomfiting of all "How much ?" "No- you're kidding.Let's have a listen then."
Now the tricky bit -what to play? Ideally I would go for their favourite music if I have it but usually they're not really into music much.So I would try and play something they're familiar with such as Beatles -And I love her and hope to open their eyes and ears to what's possible on a good system. I find you only have one shot at this as the subject quickly changes.Anything too busy or "hi-fi" has them cowering in the corner. So suggestions please-if you're forced to play something for a non believer and hope to convince them that you're not really mad and haven't wasted a colossal amount of money what would you play?
Posted on: 14 December 2004 by JBoulder
Roger Waters' Perfect Sense on the 'In The Flesh' Live album has a sample of HAL the nasty little computer (Space Odyssey 2001) in the beginning and it has been so strangely mixed that it seems to come at you from your left side, anywhere but between the speakers. If nothing else, this raises the eyebrows of my non-believer friends... And the nice drums on It's A Miracle. Sigh...

(Note: the effect is far more obvious in SACD stereo than CD stereo. And I do have Totems...)

Johan B
Posted on: 15 December 2004 by Nime
Music Concrete? Razz

Percussion, particularly solo drumming, can often sound rather amazing on decent hifi. Smile

Leaden Zszszszsepplintz would have me out of the door so fast you'd need a locksmith. And probably a dentist! Yeuch! Winker

Nime
Posted on: 15 December 2004 by Nick_S
Nime

I agree on the solo drums, actually the drumming by Led Zep's John Bonham was helpful in choosing my first serious HiFi in the 80s. Nowadays, I'd probably play something with tablas (e.g., John McLaughlin and Shakti) which can bend the low notes nicely as they are played.

Nick
Posted on: 15 December 2004 by Mike Hanson
quote:
Mike Hanson said:
Why does anything "popular" automatically get panned by the "illuminati"? My only good answer is that those _smarties_ like to set themselves apart.


quote:
sideshowbob replied:
Diana Krall isn't very good, it's as simple as that. There's nothing sinister about finding the perversion of jazz into wallpaper music deeply annoying.


Sure, Krall's oeuvre isn't necessarily high art, but it's enjoyable, and emotionally appealing. From my perspective, "torchy" vocal jazz is rarely "impressive art". Most of it is (appropriately) easy to listen to and enjoy.

quote:
Mike Hanson said:
IMO, "challenging" jazz is often merely unappealing noise. It's great for stroking your chin, and that's about it.


quote:
sideshowbob replied:
Maybe you just don't understand it? Fair enough if you don't, but there's no need to impugn the motives of those who do.


Well, I'm an accomplished musician, with an in-depth knowledge of classical, jazz, etc., so my ability to understand it is not an issue. The problem that I see is that much material meant to impress may be intriguing intellectually, but doesn't necessarily induce pleasure in the listener. That's why I refer to it as "chin stroking" music. To make matter worse, it's often alienating, frequently in a self-serving fashion. The musicians want to push the envelope, and they're leaving their audience behind. In many cases, it's just masturbatory noodling.

Occasionally high-art can be accessible, but those who create it often interpret widespread appreciation to be a sign of the the work's artistic failure.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-
Posted on: 15 December 2004 by analogue kid
As much as I love Led Zeppelin, I would never play a track to a Sceptic unless they are a fan themselves.

Try something most people would have heard,like 'All Right Now' by Free.
The dual guitars on the intro are something people say they have never heard before.

Anything from the 'Rumours' album by Fleetwood mac

Music IS Analogue
Posted on: 15 December 2004 by Thomas K
Putting something on that makes the system sound good seems like an awful neurosis to me

Ian is right, of course. But it's so much fun ...

Try Fleetwood Mac's "Dreams" off the recent reissue CD. This is a track everyone will know and have heard many times. It's non-audiophool music: old and clearly identifiable as such, but still sounds like a million dollars in terms of pretty much everything. I only just got this CD a while ago and until then I never knew how well the bass part drives the song along.

Edit: Anything from the 'Rumours' album by Fleetwood mac

Wow, what a coincidence!

Thomas
Posted on: 15 December 2004 by sideshowbob
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Hanson:
Sure, Krall's oeuvre isn't necessarily high art, but it's enjoyable, and emotionally appealing. From my perspective, "torchy" vocal jazz is rarely "impressive art". Most of it is (appropriately) easy to listen to and enjoy.


Some people find it enjoyable and emotionally appealing, but others don't. All you're saying is that you like it, but your earlier post suggests that those who don't like it are merely trying to be different in some way. Perhaps they simply don't like it, don't find it either enjoyable or emotionally appealing, for no other reason than they prefer something else. I certainly don't like her records. She's a reasonably accomplished pianist and an OK singer, but her popularity has far more to do with record company marketing than any intrinsic qualities to her music, which is mostly extremely derivative. My dislike of her music is an aesthetic choice, nothing else. It leaves me cold, emotionally, intellectually, every which way. She might have developed into a musician who had her own voice, but the marketing departments have so far put paid to that.

quote:

Well, I'm an accomplished musician, with an in-depth knowledge of classical, jazz, etc., so my ability to understand it is not an issue. The problem that I see is that much material meant to impress may be intriguing intellectually, but doesn't necessarily induce pleasure in the listener.


Speak for yourself. Any listener who chooses to listen to this stuff is doing it for more than intellectual curiosity, presumably. I know I am. And "understanding" the avant-garde is about much more than having a technical knowledge of music making.

quote:

To make matter worse, it's often alienating, frequently in a self-serving fashion. The musicians want to push the envelope, and they're leaving their audience behind.


A problem with the audience rather than the musicians presumably. All a musician can do is play what they feel, if an audience can't be found for that expression that's not necessarily the musician's fault. I would rather a musician played what they wanted to play, even if I didn't like the results, than played what was best for their record sales.

Name some names, who do you have in mind specifically? Who are these chin stroking academics who have left their audience behind? Perhaps we can have a concrete debate about their music rather than an abstract discussion about their supposed motives.

-- Ian
Posted on: 15 December 2004 by Mike Hanson
quote:
Originally posted by sideshowbob:
All a musician can do is play what they feel, if an audience can't be found for that expression that's not necessarily the musician's fault. I would rather a musician played what they wanted to play, even if I didn't like the results, than played what was best for their record sales.

Although I agree in principle, the problem is that most people don't simply follow their feelings. They often are trying to make a statement, and are self-critiquing whether they'll be giving the "right" impression. As a result, they often alter their course, and end up posturing (what they think) rather than emoting (what they feel).

quote:
Name some names, who do you have in mind specifically? Who are these chin stroking academics who have left their audience behind? Perhaps we can have a concrete debate about their music rather than an abstract discussion about their supposed motives.

As I could have predicted before I delved into this discussion, it has come down to the variance of personal opinion. As such, there can never be a "right" and "wrong". Have a nice day.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-