Rover cars

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Originally posted by Steve G:
JD Power survey results (120 vehicles)

17th - Honda Civic
81st - Rover 45

Best in class was the Mazda 323 (3rd overall) and the Toyota Corrolla (9th overall). The Civic was 3rd in class. ]]

Worst in the class were the Alfa Romeo 147, Fiat Stilo, Fiat Brava, Peugeot 307 & Fiat Bravo. The Peugeot 306, Citroen Xsara, Chrysler Neon, Daewoo Nubira & Daewoo Lanos were also rated lower than the Rover.

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the JD Power stuff is a good guide but remember to read it in context... the scores are based on customer satisfaction and that in turn is based on their expectations.. ie if you bought a kia and the interior light didnt work you would almost have expected it and although it would be a pain it wouldnt be the end of your world... the same problem in a megabuck bmw/merc would not be expected or probably tolerated!

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Originally posted by Hawk:
the JD Power stuff is a good guide but remember to read it in context... the scores are based on customer satisfaction and that in turn is based on their expectations..

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Very true. I've sometimes wondered about the Skoda's good showing as, either the owners I know have been unlucky (reliability seeming to have being round about Ford/Vauxhall levels) or the majority of Skoda owners were expecting their cars to be really, really shite and were surprised to find that they're actually not too bad.

We've had 3 Fiats though (including one currently) and they weren't anything like as bad as the results would have expected. Our current Fiat (my wife's car) wasn't actually built by Fiat but it's relability, while not brilliant, has been better than it's predecessors (a Ford, an Audi and two Vauxhalls).

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Originally posted by Hawk:
the same problem in a megabuck bmw/merc would not be expected or probably tolerated!

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They've also got a lot more equipment to go wrong.

I read an article on Mercedes declining fortunes in reliability surveys (they do quite badly now in surveys worldwide) and this was put down with them not being able to keep good quality control in place while sales are booming and production has ramped up.

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Originally posted by Steve G:

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Originally posted by Hawk:
the same problem in a megabuck bmw/merc would not be expected or probably tolerated!

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They've also got a lot more equipment to go wrong.

It should be the case but the germans can be a little tight on the standard spec!

I read an article on Mercedes declining fortunes in reliability surveys (they do quite badly now in surveys worldwide) and this was put down with them not being able to keep good quality control in place while sales are booming and production has ramped up.

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again expectation... people think they are bullet proof reliable and expect them never to break down... sadly they do occasionally.. particularly the A class.. Ive got a C class estate on evaluation at the moment (not to buy! as part of my job) and frankly it feels cheap inside compared to an accord tourer with half the spec!

This sucks.

You're destroying one of your few remaining large industrial producers.

If you don't support your own industries then who will ? You can't sustain an economy purely on the service sector.

Don't forget to turn the lights out.

Brian OReilly

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Originally posted by Brian OReilly:
This sucks.

You're destroying one of your few remaining large industrial producers.

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Actually they seem quite capable of doing that by themselves. If they were to build a quality, competitive product then I'd certainly consider it, but I'm not going to buy shit just because it's British.

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If you don't support your own industries then who will ?

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My car was built in Britain.

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Originally posted by Hawk:
Ive got a C class estate on evaluation at the moment (not to buy! as part of my job) and frankly it feels cheap inside compared to an accord tourer with half the spec!

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We looked at a Merc E330 (I think - it was big V6 diesel anway) estate as a possible replacement for my wifes car and while it was quite pleasant inside I also preferred the Accord Aerodeck (which is what she'll probably be going for although she quite likes the idea of the Civic IMA).

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Originally posted by Brian OReilly:
This sucks.

You're destroying one of your few remaining large industrial producers.

If you don't support your own industries then who will ? You can't sustain an economy purely on the service sector.

Don't forget to turn the lights out.

Brian OReilly

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There is not much left to fight for after BMW's asset stripping exercise.. sad i agree, but like steve says there is a limit to patrionism (if thats the right word!?) At least Honda have the faith to build over 200,000 cars in the UK... some of which are exported back to Japan!

"You're destroying one of your few remaining large industrial producers"
I wouldn't be bothered if Naim was made in Timbuktu, i'm glad its down the road in the centre of the universe but you know what I mean
Martin

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Originally posted by Steve G:

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Originally posted by Hawk:
Ive got a C class estate on evaluation at the moment (not to buy! as part of my job) and frankly it feels cheap inside compared to an accord tourer with half the spec!

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We looked at a Merc E330 (I think - it was big V6 diesel anway) estate as a possible replacement for my wifes car and while it was quite pleasant inside I also preferred the Accord Aerodeck (which is what she'll probably be going for although she quite likes the idea of the Civic IMA).

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Im driving the Accord Tourer 2.4 Exec back to back with the merc tomorrow.. should be interesting.. The Merc has been nice to drive, it does seem to be quiet on the motorway for an estate but its so basic in comparison to the Honda..

Have you driven the IMA yet?

Just my 2p worth

A Dutch friend had a 400 and racked up well over 100,000 miles on it touring Europe. No major dramas and still ran well. At 175,000 km I had it on an Autobahn at around 100mph and it was fine.

The company I work for bought 2 Rover 75. One manual, one automatic. Also bought 2 Peugeot 406 at the same time. Rovers have been more reliable over the last 3 years. All cars now have in excess of 70000 miles on each of them.

A neighbour bought a new 75 and took it back as it had a very noticable piston slap from new. End result was a denial and then a new engine. He wanted to sell it but was offered peanuts in comparison on a trade-in. Even with less than 1000 miles on the clock.

Me ? I'd not buy one. It's a crap drive.......

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Originally posted by Hawk:
Im driving the Accord Tourer 2.4 Exec back to back with the merc tomorrow.. should be interesting.. The Merc has been nice to drive, it does seem to be quiet on the motorway for an estate but its so basic in comparison to the Honda..

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The model we're considering is the 2.4 Exec estate which I've yet to drive. One of my colleagues has the 2.0 Exec but, as my wife would probably be going for an auto, I'd rather have the bigger engine.

I've got one of the last model 2.0 Execs at the moment.

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Have you driven the IMA yet?

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Not yet, but my local dealer has one in so I should do soon. It's about the same size and spec as my car but my only real concern is that I might find it a bit slow in comparison.

My only insight was years ago I had a Rover 400 and it wasn't great even at the time. Some people liked the wood?? and the chrome and maybe that olde worlde thing is what appeals, but there were rattles aplenty a spectacularly dull ride and a yackkk interior. I've driven both the Megane and new Golf and was very pleasantly surprised. Even though it's a company car, you still want something that's not going to leave her on the roadside or the car in the workshop for aeons while she your wife has to tab around in a pool car or a rental Cinquicento. She isn't going to benefit from any sweetener from the dealer, so she should really look elsewhere.

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Ive got a C class estate on evaluation at the moment (not to buy! as part of my job) and frankly it feels cheap inside compared to an accord tourer with half the spec!

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Toying with the idea of a small estate, I recently drove a C220cdi estate and you're not wrong about that interior. Nice exterior but inside is cheap, plastic and ugly as sin. I thought it good for cruising otherwise nah. The interior is matched only by the x-type which is a genuine shocker; think Welsh dresser meets Metro parts bin. On a positive note, I had a quick buzz in the new Accord diesel and thought the ride and engine fantastic.

The Concherto it was - thanks Hawk. It was so bland I forgot it. When does that design date back to? Were many of us alive at the time?

As to not supporting the native british car industry - who are we kidding? If you've got money to throw away go for it. I'd rather have a bucket that works than one with holes in it and a union jack painted on the side.

Big 'expensive' german cars go wrong just like any other. The difference is the viability of repairing them as opposed to chucking them away. There are plenty of 20 year old Mercs cruising about looking good and running fine. I can't remember the last time I saw a 20 year old Rover in daily use.

Cheers

Harry

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Originally posted by HTK:
The Concherto it was - thanks Hawk. It was so bland I forgot it. When does that design date back to? Were many of us alive at the time?

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Mid to late 80's I think. The Concerto/400 weren't desperately bad at the time (I test drove both as company car options but went with a VTi Civic instead) but it was a long time ago.

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As to not supporting the native british car industry - who are we kidding? If you've got money to throw away go for it. I'd rather have a bucket that works than one with holes in it and a union jack painted on the side.

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My thoughts exactly.

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Big 'expensive' german cars go wrong just like any other. The difference is the viability of repairing them as opposed to chucking them away. There are plenty of 20 year old Mercs cruising about looking good and running fine. [/QUOTE}

In 20 years it'll be interesting to see if there are many 20 year old Mercs cruising about...

[QUOTE]I can't remember the last time I saw a 20 year old Rover in daily use.

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Rover 45?

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Originally posted by HTK:
There are plenty of 20 year old Mercs cruising about looking good and running fine. I can't remember the last time I saw a 20 year old Rover in daily use.

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Well, since this is going to be a company lease Rosie won't be driving that car in twenty years either.

Nonetheless, even accounting for some personal hard feelings (Steve?), most of you have not been too peppy about them Rovers, and I have suggested to her to check out a Mazda 323 and a Toyota, too.

The thing is, in some cases she doesn't mind some old-fashioned things, such as a speed dial rather than digital speed control. The Renault Scenic she's driving for the interval is much more up-to-date, and she doesn't like the overal smoothness. To her it doesn't feel like she's really driving on the road.

I was a little concerned, however, about the quality of the seats, for instance, in the Rover.

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Originally posted by herm:
Nonetheless, even accounting for some personal hard feelings (Steve?).

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No hard feelings on my part as I've never been dumb enough to buy one...

My near miss in the late 80's was saved by a change in company car policy which gave me a much wider choice. My colleagues who'd got their 200's and 400's a few months earlier were very, very unhappy when folks like me started getting Civic VTi's, Preludes, MX6's etc. under the new scheme...

I'd buy a P5b or a P6 tomorrow if that was where I wanted to chuck money. But these would be a hobby. Drifting off topic but they did did make some supberb cars - just not since the mid/late 70s.

I think that driving a 323 and 400 back to back would result in a no brainer. But hey, each to their own. As long as we're all happy.

Cheers

Harry

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Originally posted by HTK:
I'd buy a P5b or a P6 tomorrow if that was where I wanted to chuck money. But these would be a hobby. Drifting off topic but they did did make some supberb cars - just not since the mid/late 70s.

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I'd love a mint P6 3500 auto.

A last of the line, twin plennum SD1 Vitesse would do nicely for tail out antics and good 'ole V8 woffle.

And I quite like the look of the new MG ZT 260 (not that I need a 4 door, mind). Supposed to be quite a talented package according to Evo.

See Brian, some support for MG Rover!

Steve

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Originally posted by Stevie Dempster:
A last of the line, twin plennum SD1 Vitesse would do nicely for tail out antics and good 'ole V8 woffle.

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My uncles garage used to rally one of those - mad it was. Good fun though. I spent a bit of time with a 2.6 auto and it was a pleasant enough car as well.

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And I quite like the look of the new MG ZT 260 (not that I need a 4 door, mind). Supposed to be quite a talented package according to Evo.

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Is that the one that's the best part of £30K though?

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Originally posted by Steve G:
Is that the one that's the best part of £30K though?

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Certainly is, Steve. Pre-face lift ones can be had for about £24k. And what in a years time..? Performance car bargain me thinks.

Now Brian, about fitting that nice six of yours into the Mini. Should we send the boys from Longbridge over to give you a hand? ;-)

Steve

Ugh - the horror...

Thanx for that positive post, Stevie ! I am taking names and you won't be going on my "List Of People I'm Very, Very Cross With".

I don't personally have an axe to grind over Rover. Along with occasional contributor Rana, and mad speaker designer Aonghus O'Heocha, I did a lot of design & development on the K16/KV6 engines, but that's a long way back in the past. I do however, become annoyed with the bollocks that uninformed people and courtesy light fetishists spout about a company that's desperately fighting its way out of a hole.

Fell free to send help over for the 6cyl "Fat Boy" Mini, but sadly, I think "The Boys Of Longbridge" have gone.

That V8 75 does look pretty mean.......

Brian OReilly