Glenn Gould Bach Goldberg variations

Ultimately, it comes down to whether you believe that there is sanctity in the way that Bach envisioned (and to some extent notated) the Gouldberg Variations. If you believe that Bach's intentions are sacrosanct, then you will be upset by any performer who doesn't make every effort to kowtow themselves to those constraints. Someone like Gould, with his monolithic ego, would really get under your skin, due to his seeming disrespect for your beloved Bach.

If, however, you accept that the resulting performance is an amalgam of both the composer's and performer's efforts (inevitable, as far as I'm concerned), along with the myriad other influences that may occurred between the composition and the performance, then you can fully appreciate the genius that was Gould.

Do it you prefer inviolability of initial vision or evolutionary application? Personally, I believe that the latter is the only reasonable expectation.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

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Originally posted by garth:
As for hearing narccissism in others playing... only a narccissist would make such an assumption I think.

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This is tantamount to the childhood jibe, "It takes one to know one!" and I think it is categorically incorrect. Of course a humble man could recognize a narcissist, without needing to become one. Suggesting otherwise is merely an ad hominem fallacy.

A critic need not be capable of reproducing that which he critiques.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

BTW, Central, watch out or you'll turn into Stallion (and that's not a good thing).

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Mike,I have just popped the word Stallion in to the search engine, now i am not left scrathing my head at your post.
I will have to stop enjoying myself, i fear i may have offended some with my choice of comedian's.
I will if possible edit accordingly.

quote:

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Originally posted by central:
Mike,I have just popped the word Stallion in to the search engine, now i am not left scrathing my head at your post.
I will have to stop enjoying myself, i fear i may have offended some with my choice of comedian's.
I will if possible edit accordingly.

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It didn't realize that you came after Stallion's "dismissal". It's somewhat difficult to describe his persona fully (without descending into epithets). Let's just say that he was one of the more pompous, ascerbic members of the forum, and has been banned (to the delight of the majority of forum members).

Your last series of posts on this thread have seemed almost reminiscient of that dark age, which is really disappointing, considering the enlightened discussion that was ensuing. It's rare to have a truly civil conversation on the net, and I dreaded the possibility that this one would go down in flames.

BTW, please don't take it as an insult, but rather as a friendly nudge. The comment was meant to be entirely constructive.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Mike, No offence taken, i can not believe that anyone could take those posts seriously, but they were a reaction to people dishing out insults that had not taken any real part in the debate amongst other thing's.
To be honest from my brief time on this forum, nothing much positive has come from it, and if you can't have a bit of a laugh then i don't think i really fit in, no hard feelings and all that and genuinely sorry if i have caused offence but i think i will make my excuses, say Ta Ta, put on some Jaques Tati, i think Mon Oncle will do, get the bowl out and wish you all well.


God bless.

Tony.

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Originally posted by central:
Mike, No offence taken, i can not believe that anyone could take those posts seriously, but they were a reaction to people dishing out insults that had not taken any real part in the debate amongst other thing's.
To be honest from my brief time on this forum, nothing much positive has come from it, and if you can't have a bit of a laugh then i don't think i really fit in, no hard feelings and all that and genuinely sorry if i have caused offence but i think i will make my excuses, say Ta Ta, put on some Jaques Tati, i think Mon Oncle will do, get the bowl out and wish you all well.

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Tony,

I'm sorry that the grapes were sour, but I think you'll find that most people enjoy participating in the forum (or at least lurking) and to learn a bit in the process. As to taking responses seriously, I'm not suggesting that anyone would read these snippets and walk away with hurt feelings. Instead, the goal is to have civil, meaningful, entertaining discussions, which don't inevitably degrade into mudslinging. We're here to share knowledge and insights, not to get into virtual bar-fights.

BTW, lobbing vitriolic taunts and barbs, followed by claims that "It was all in jest!" or "The other guy started it!" were two of Stallion's favorite games. It all got childishly tiresome, so please don't follow down the same path.

Let me end by saying that I appreciate reading your viewpoints (in this case leading me to pull Gould off the shelf), and I'm not trying to drive you out of the forum. I just hope that we can share our perspectives, without becoming openly antagonistic. The Internet is already too rife with that.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Mike, You are right, i have just read all the posts through from the begining and most of mine are aggresive and awful, no excuse.

Sorry to all concerned.

Tony.

quote:

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Originally posted by central:
Mike, You are right, i have just read all the posts through from the begining and most of mine are aggresive and awful, no excuse.

Sorry to all concerned.

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That was very un-Stallion-like of you.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

I haven't read all this thread but I have found Gould's Goldbergs very useful for testing your hi-fi, in that the better it is, the more obtrusive his moaning becomes!

I'm no musical expert, but as a Bach lover, Gould's comes across to me as more Gould than Bach. I have a few versions and I like Murray Perahia's best of what I've heard.

The man with the golden ear trumpet

Hello tones,

".....
I haven't read all this thread but I have found Gould's Goldbergs very useful for testing your hi-fi, in that the better it is, the more obtrusive his moaning becomes!
....."

I sort of agree. I got a demo of a naim amp with KEF speakers and with Gould I thought one of the tweeters was damaged it sounded so bad. I could not listen to it. The speakers may have given more sound but did not give better sound -- they gave distorted sound.

With bad equipment he can sound awful; with better stuff you hear more of him but he sounds like someone in the room rather than distortion.

[For pop music I used to listed to Pink Floyd 'Sheep' from 'Animals' and could make out the words on headphones but not on speakers ... maybe should try it again].

James H.