Ken Bigley.

...cos they get their jollies from doing that sort of thing.

May their souls disintigrate.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
The Hi-Fi Doctor

I don't believe Ken died in vain, unlike the release of two women by paying monies by the ITALIAN WANKER³, his death, although not initially by the killers, will be seen fairly soon as a means to NO - END, as with the other half or dozen plus beheaded by them in the last few days as well.

Graham George Von Sorrytoegypt&israeltoo

A report I read says he was beheaded with a knife?

I feel very sad.

So,

Ken Bigley, and many others, sadistically murdered by terrorist thugs, plus holiday resorts around the Red Sea area bombed, plus 9/11; Bali, Madrid; and many other atrocities.

How should the world respond to terrorists and Osama Bin Laden/Al quaida in particlar?

Cheers

Don

quote:

---

May their souls disintigrate.

---

And to Bush and Blair too.

What a depressing world we live in. Still Halliburton's results are looking OK.
Simon

AlexG,

How dreadful.

Cheers

Don

PS does that figure include civilians and policemen etc murdered? If so, how many? And how many civilians and policemen have the coalition forces deliberately murdered?

Perhaps these figures are included in the linked report but I haven't had time to read it yet.

Spot on, Alex. I was morbidly musing how many Iraqi children had died since Ken was taken hostage.

Don, I don't suppose the coalition 'deliberately' murders any civilians but now that the report has confirmed the obvious that Bliar and Bush went into Iraq not because of WMD and imminent risk but for regime change and oil, the buck stops with them. I heard JW's rabble rousing speech in Texas the other day and wanted to puke.

quote:

---

How should the world respond to terrorists

---

By actually going after the bastards that carry out and support these sickening outrage. By stopping the equally sickening justification of the massacre of innocent women and children in Iraq and Israel by insurgents/resistance and occupying forces alike. Of the numerous children murdered in Gaza this and last week, the teenage girl shot dead by Israeli soldiers as she walked to school, was especially sickening. Her body was riddled with 20 bullets, 5 in the head. The footage of the F16 pilot casually taking out a crowd of 30 people running down a street in Falluja followed by the Pentagon’s incredulous explanation certainly seemed to plumb the depths of humanity and make you wonder whether any of the sides in either Iraq or Israel place value on human lives and are remotely bothered with matters of the soul.

Don, 13,000+ innocents blown to pieces! Doesn’t there come a time when you stop playing semantics and realise that every innocent life is equally valuable and that a squadron of cowboys dropping bombs on a group of unidentified people is just as barbaric as someone flying a plane into a building?

I think that all of the current players in the Middle East are up to their neck in blood and those who refuse to condemn any and all of these atrocities share the blame. I feel sick to the pit of my stomach for Ken Bigley, his poor family and all who have suffered in this mess.

Don, 13,000+ innocents blown to pieces! Doesn’t there come a time when you stop playing semantics and realise that every innocent life is equally valuable

There never WAS a time when I played semantics on a subject like this. I do value innocent lives equally.

There is a colossal difference between murder and the accidental loss of life. It has nothing to do with semantics and I'm sure that you recognise this.

You can debate as long as you like whether the coalition have taken enough care to minimise accidental loss of life, but that almost pales into insignificance alongside the deliberate mass murder of innocent poeple in Iraq.

I think we are agreed on the need to track down and eliminate the perpetrators of terrorism.

Cheers

Don

On a positive note, Billy will be pleased :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/click/rss/1.0/-/1/hi/england/merseyside/3717462.stm

AlexS,

I just noticed that you modified your post.

I have long noted that it would have been better to conentrate on OBL first. Not least because it avoids confusing some people but also prevents mischief-makers adding to, and taking advantage of, that confusion. The USA rightly had the world on its side after 9/11 (other than a few sados who blamed it on globalisation by a few US giants etc etc)

But Iraq (Saddam) needed sorting (as does Mugabee and a few others). The region was unstable. The UN impotent and ineffective (as usual) because of self-interest such as France/Gremany/Russia.

The terrorism we see today would still be happening with Saddam in place, but Iraq and the Middle East is a better place without Saddam than with him.

Iraq needs to SELL its oil. I recall B Liar making it clear we wouldn't even take payment in kind (ie oil) for the effort in restoring Iraq to its people.

Bush is a prat. I've said that before, a few times. Make sure you vote next month. And make sure the Iraqis enjoy the right to a meaninful vote in January.

Cheers

Don

Wasn't that what they wanted? $$$$$

....and Tony has just bought a £3.5m house in an exclusive part of Paddington........

Jeeezzzz....

Cheers

Don

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tom Alves:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alex S.:
Bliar and Bush went into Iraq not because of WMD and imminent risk but for regime change and oil, the buck stops with them.

---

Wasn't that what they wanted? $$$$$

---

Far be it for me to state the obvious but our society is TOTALLY dependent on oil. Without the stuff, our car driving, central heating, TV watching, currie eating, keyboard pounding, tea drinking, hi-fi listening lifestyles cease. This is not to condone the invasion of Iraq but to say that such considerations will continue to drive our foreign policy unless and until we change this.

Our failure to develop alternative, sustainable energy sources, coupled with our failure to create more energy-efficient lifestyles are two of the biggest sins of our societies.

The actual link between the invasion of Iraq and Al Qaeda is that Bin Laden selected Saudi Nationals for all of the non-pilot terrorists for the 9/11 attrocities. This was a deliberate strategy to try to drive a wedge between the USA and Saudi Arabia and it worked well. Having decided that the future oil supply from Saudi was not as secure as required for the maintenance of our way of life, the USA and UK decided to invade Iraq to try to secure an alternative supply of oil.

Steve M

quote:

---

The UN impotent and ineffective (as usual) because of self-interest such as France/Gremany/Russia.

---

An existing problem exacerbated by the actions of the US and UK. If you pulled your head out of the Telegraph and your ass for a minute you'd discover that 46 countries are being chased in this oil4food lark, including the UK and US. Apparently privacy legislation meant that US involvement was blanked from the report. Your selective analysis is dismal.

quote:

---

The terrorism we see today would still be happening with Saddam in place, but Iraq and the Middle East is a better place without Saddam than with him.

---

Really? How? Where? Do you really think that we'd be seeing this level of violence in Iraq if the banana bothers hadn't cocked up from start to finish? I've spent the best part of the summer working in Jordan and the prevailing view is that the entire operation was disaster in it's conception, it's execution and the consequent aftermath. When I first worked on this project in 1998, most of my clients, middle class professionals. middle-ranking civil servants were pro-western and positive about the influence of the US. These same people now have barely concealed contempt for the motivations of the US and the UK governments in Iraq and the overall feeeling is that the region as a whole has been utterly shattered on the basis of lies. These are exactly the people who the West should have nurtured; now they just loath the US and UK and want them to make good, without killing more innocent Muslims, and then go away.

quote:

---

I think we are agreed on the need to track down and eliminate the perpetrators of terrorism

---

Well the difference is that you only want to curtail certain terrorism, not the pilot who wipes out an unidentified crowd and then congratulates himself with an "ooooh dude". I find it hard to see much difference between the likes of you and Zarqawi apologists who condemn US/US attacks.

Don't draw parallels between you and I Don, it makes me queasy.

quote:

---

Originally posted by bigmick:
... I've spent the best part of the summer working in Jordan and the prevailing view is that the entire operation was disaster in it's conception, it's execution and the consequent aftermath.

---

Just to clarify bigmick, are you saying that this is the prevailing view in Jordan?

Steve

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tom Alves:
... Most of the Bush administration are heavily involved with various Oil Corporations, Condaleeza Rice even has an oil tanker named after her...

---

Absolutely. If for no other reason, you'd think that Bush's close links with the oil industry would be grounds for voting the other man in.

Steve

There are no words for the sadness of Ken Bigley's death and the death of thousands of others.

Start another thread for the foreign policy debate

Deane

I'd hoped against hope for Ken's release.

The support from his family (esp. his brother) and community were exemplary,

This is more than just another Vietnam - this new version of guerilla warfare has an opponent vindictive like never before - and this opponent will not hesitate to bring the war right to your doorstep.

The real victims are the innocents on both sides.

One would think that the world has learnt something about war in the past century.

The world deserves what it gets.

RIP Ken

quote:

---

There are no words for the sadness of Ken Bigley's death and the death of thousands of others.

Start another thread for the foreign policy debate

---

Couldn't agree more.

The Sunday Times is claiming a bungled MI6 escape bid may have hastened Ken B's downfall.

Alex

Better to have tried and failed than never to have tried at all, wouldn't you say?

Brian, generally, I'd say no, but rather than rake over it on a hi-fi forum I'll take the advice of others and let the matter rest, at least on this specific thread.

there are some barbaric animals in this world, loosely termed as human beings, who are completely worthless to society.
the bastards who killed ken bigley are a perfect example.
i wish it was easy to just round them all up and put them to sleep, or ship them off to some remote island and leave them to it.
the world would be a better, and a far safer place as a result!

TN

Trev good post. There are some, many in fact, who are worthless and a waste of air