In the “mains leads again” thread, Dave S points out that on a multiple adaptor thingy, Naim recommend plugging the power amps closest to the wall and so on, with the sources farthest away. My dealer advised me to do it the other way, so I never thought about it again after he installed my system.
Six-way lead:
____________
1 2 3 4 5 6_____________wall socket
____________
So did I get this right – #1 should be the source and so on (CDX, in my case, 2 = Hi, 3 = NAPSC, 4 = IXO, 5 = 140, 6 = 140 yesiknowitsamulletbackend)? After reading Dave’s post, I had to try this out, of course. Now, I could never say with certainty whether changing two stray fuses in my system really effected a change (tip of the hat to Richard P – I found the 2-minute power-down may have made the difference hard to perceive). But *this* definitely made a difference – I’m just not sure which I prefer.
Compared to the sequence proposed by my dealer, the “reverse hierarchy” made the overall presentation “relaxed, laid back” as opposed to “projective, poised on the edge of the seat”. The first 15 or 20 minutes, the system sounded positively out-of-whack, however, it was probably just recovering from the power-down. After that, a clear picture emerged … the earth had become somewhat flatter, the image lost some depth and gained some width – so much that left and right seem panned very hard at times (maybe necessitating a shorter distance between the speakers). The frequency range seems to have shifted downwards: more bass extension, less glare on some tracks. Pitch modulation (vibrato on a bass, for instance) seems to have increased, to a point where the pitch is more “fragile” (but still in control). Vocals have become more intelligible. Instruments sound more natural, overall tonality is a bit darker. Individual instruments or voices have lost the sharp edge defining them and gel better with the others – despite this, though, there is more detail, higher resolution – all I’ve done is to change the order of the bloody plugs and the instrument count on some of my faves has gone up again (ooh – look, a marimba!).
On most pop albums, it’s a definite improvement. Jazz I’m not so sure, though. Anyone ever tried this and experience anything similar? What do you think?
Thomas
Posted on: 23 January 2001 by Bob Edwards
Thomas--
You pretty much nailed the differences. NANA recommends amp first, then preamp, then sources. At the urging of a couple folks on the forum I have tried it both ways and feel that NANA have it right--newsflash I know. With sources first it just seems a little off to me, although Joe Petrik has indicated a preference for that configuration.
Best advice is, as always, try them and see !
Cheers,
Bob
Ride the Light !æ
Posted on: 24 January 2001 by kan man
Hi Thomas
Before I put in a dedicated supply, I did some experimentation powering various bits of kit directly from the wall socket and from extensions. I can confirm that giving the power amp the cleanest supply makes the biggest difference.
Cheers
Steve
Posted on: 24 January 2001 by Joe Petrik
quote:
With sources first it just seems a little off to me, although Joe Petrik has indicated a preference for that configuration.
Actually, my preference depends on the kind of music I'm playing. (By the way, don't switch the plug order for each record to get the optimum configuration. I'm not that anal. I simply note that my preference depends on what I'm listening to.)
This is what I've found:
If you go the source-to-power amp route, you get the classic front-end improvements -- more coherence, better phrasing, subtler textures, and so on. If you go the power amp-to-source route, you get the classic back-end improvements -- more control, better dynamics, more authoratative bass, and so on.
But whichever way you go, it's not a big deal. A true upgrade in the source or amp yields much bigger results.
Jo
Posted on: 25 January 2001 by Thomas K
Guys,
Thanks for confirming that I’m not just hearing things.
Joe,
quote:
bigger gains by putting your power strip on a small isolation shelf/table
Are you referring to the Mana Power Strip Table? (DOH! And yet another thread contaminated …) Sounds positively tweakish. I’ve actually read that some people use speaker cable suspenders to keep the cable off the floor.
It’s the impression I got, too, that a preference might emerge depending on the type of music; as I said, I think on most of my pop albums the “reverse hierarchy” makes sense. Perhaps this is where I get rich – the first power strip with selectable infeed direction!
Thomas
Posted on: 25 January 2001 by Joe Petrik
Thomas,
quote:
Sounds positively tweakish.
Well, it is, but this place isn't for the faint of heart. If you spend tens of thousands of dollars or pounds on your system, it seems only natural to tweak to get the best out of it. I mean, if you're not inclined to tweak, you're probably also not likely to spend large amounts on hi-fi.
Back to the power strip. About 1.5 years ago I made my girlfriend (now wife) evaluate the two basic plug orientations -- source first and amps first.
Like me, her preference depended more on the type of music than on the orientation. Then, just out of curiosity, I put the power strip on a MDF board with cones. Well, f*** me! It was a bigger difference than the plug order.
But in perspective, I'd rank it a fairly modest tweak. Adding a napsc to my 102 made a bigger and more worthwhile difference. But if you have the inclination and a few bucks to spare...
Joe
Posted on: 25 January 2001 by Martin D
A mate of mine, with similar system to me but active, swears its better with all the din locking rings not locked onto the sockets. I think this was mentioned on the forum ages ago?
Something might go bang though if one fell out!
Happy unlocking
Martin
Posted on: 25 January 2001 by Thomas K
quote:
Well, f*** me! It was a bigger difference than the plug order
Joe, you got me with this one – as soon as I get some time I’m going to try it out.
As concerns the quirky nature of tweaks like this, I definitely agree that anything’s worth trying, especially if it comes cheap. It’s just that the weirder this stuff becomes in the eyes of my mortal friends (the “Unhearing”), the more they’re inclined towards having me committed. I suppose it’s easy to follow the logic of “more money = more music”, but if someone’s not acquainted enough with a particular system to hear the difference caused by plug order, all the “voodoo” must seem pretty eerie (for folks with a micro system, a high-quality Naim setup sounds phenomenal even if it’s on the floor and all the fuses are inserted the wrong way).
Thomas
Posted on: 25 January 2001 by ken c
at the time i was too embarassed to report on this forum of respectable people, but joe has got me going now.
when i was messing about with position of 52 on my QS, i ended up with mains cables sprawled all over the place -- which didnt look, or sound nice. so i tried the cables together using cable ties -- you know those flexible things that look like wire coated in plastic. no cigar, if anything, worse.
then in a moment of frivolity -- i decided to use rubber bands. well, this made a definite positive difference. come on, i said to myself, this is getting ridiculous. so i put the little cable ties back, and guess what, the effect was negative? time to call the men in white coats??
so,put the rubber bands back, and promised myself to start a thread that claims cable dressing with rubber bands is a bigger upgrade than 82 to 52!!
naaaah, i thought, folks might think its a joke...
enjoy...
Posted on: 26 January 2001 by ken c
simon: many thanks. well, its nice to know that one can put some sort of scientific explanation to my mad observation. the difference is not huge though, and if you have your cables routed nicely without any ties, better still...
the best routing for speaker cable i have seen was at RPM (unfortunately out of business, now Oranges & Lemons) where Jay and Karen routed their NACA5's under floor boards. neat. good sounds too.
i also have the problem that one of my speakers is very close to the nap250. so i have a pile of stiff cable (5m long) coiled up in one corner. i will have to sort this out when i go active when the problem will be doubled...
enjoy...
ken
Posted on: 26 January 2001 by Martin M
"Well, if you use cable ties, you're sticking what could be a very small RF aerial around your cables"
Are they made out of metal? I've never come across a plastic antenna, maybe I'm not looking hard enough. I'm having difficlty seeing how a short legth of plastic can electrically resonate at RF. I have seen carbon fibre antennas though, so don't wrap that round your cables!
Perhaps the dielectic properties of the tie-wrap is the problem here. In which case ,try PTFE tape it should work well.
Posted on: 26 January 2001 by Chris Brandon
If you need to bundle cables together,then make sure that they are bundled LOOSE when tightening the cable tie's
This bears a resembelance to certain Cat5e I.T. cable installation standards (eg. Panduit) and has a measurable effect using the appropriate test gear(unfortunatly,not available to me).
Regards
Chris
Posted on: 26 January 2001 by Andrew L. Weekes
quote:
Are they made out of metal? I've never come across a plastic antenna, maybe I'm not looking hard enough
Martin,
I think there's a misunderstanding here between engineer's cable ties (generally plastic, some with metal lock) and household wire (cable) ties, of the sort used to seal sandwich bags!
I guess these are the type Simon is talking about.
Andy.
Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com
Posted on: 01 February 2001 by Anders
Interesting discussion!
My situation is as follows: I have 11 naim boxes with mains lead that need to be connected to the wall socket via a distribution block solution. The wall socket is of the dual kind and the largest distribution blocks available here is with 6 connections. The question is how to connect the 11 devices to preserve the star earthing.
Up until now, I have connected 6x135s into one distribution block to one of the outputs at the dual wall socket and the XPS (CDSII)+ NAT02 + Hicap (Prefix)+ Supercap (52)+ Hicap (Naxo) to another distribution block to the other output of the dual wall socket (NAT02 closest to the wall socket). The two distribution blocks are in other words connected in parallel to the dual wall socket.
Given this configuration, the sound is relaxed but detailed with good depth and dynamics, i.e. a little "round earthish".
A couple a days ago, based on the discussion in this thread, I changed the connections to the following (distribution blocks in series):
0. Wall socket to distribution block 1
1a. 135
1b. 135
1c. 135
1d. 135
1e. 135
1f. Connection to distribution block 2
2a. 135
2b. Hicap (Naxo)
2c. Supercap (52)
2d. Hicap (prefix)
2e. NAT02
2f. XPS (CDSII)
The initial impressions were all positive. Wider and flatter soundstage, much more forward presentation, increased detail and PRaT, i.e. more "flat earthish".
After another day the positive initial impressions faded - and the change was not small!I now found the presentation increasingly "edgy" and "digital", voices lost their natural timbre/presence, and music in general become much more compressed and boring.
What is the problem?
1. Is there a earthing issue here? Will the parallell connection of the distribution blocks to the dual wall socket preserve the earthing or destroy it (remeber this setup sounded better)?
2. Will 11 devices put to much strain on one wall socket output in terms of current - do I need to change the fuse/wires?
3. Any other ideas?
Any advice appreciated!
Regards
Anders
Posted on: 01 February 2001 by Martin Payne
Anders,
this is quite a good description of the sound of a 135 about 24 hours into it's warm-up routine.
Give it a week.
You might find, though, that 11 items on one fuse is just too much. Don't see much of a solution to this without changing over to a non-earthed plug (in the UK the old-style 15 amp round-pin plugs should be 'legal, decent & honest').
cheers, Martin
Posted on: 04 March 2001 by Thomas K
Hi all,
Just thought I’d give you an update on my experiences. As described in the first post of this thread, I was absolutely flabbergasted at how much of a difference the plug order could make. While I still stand by most of the observations I made when changing from source first to amp first, I have actually gone back to source first.
The one observation I think I have to withdraw is the one about more detail and resolution when you plug amp first – I probably just listened more closely because the other changes made me really prick my ears. When changing back to source first I did miss the extra bass extension and the darkness, but somehow source first is more refined (in my system anyway), and I was glad to get the left and right channel a bit closer again.
Both configurations have their merits, especially with regard to different types of music. I also suspect that comparisons between preferences in the USA, GB and on the Continent might not be very meaningful because of the different voltage specs.
Thomas
Posted on: 04 March 2001 by Mick P
Chaps
I notice that some of you are considering using rubber bands to tie your cables.
I am able to make you an offer no one else can.
Post Office rubber bands have a higher content of natural rubber than any other band in the world.
So grovel to your postman (UK only) or I will send some if you Email me.
Regards
Mick
