Greetings to the American and the UK people
Posted by: Arye_Gur on 03 November 2004
For the election of Gorge Bush as your president.
As a jew in Israel I'm glad that he is the next president of your countries.
Arye
As a jew in Israel I'm glad that he is the next president of your countries.
Arye
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by JonR
quote:
Originally posted by rodwsmith:
Oh come on Jon and Alex!
No mutual politeness is allowed on this thread. Surely you know better than that?
Oi Rod,
**** *** !!
jon
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by jlfrs
I think the problem affecting any runner in the U.S elections is the sheer cultural diversity of it's people.
It's no good trying to be a jack of all trades, so to speak which I think Kerry tried to do.
Bush was clever: he set out to be a master of one, i.e to secure more votes from the States we won in 2000 by appealing more to his core followers and not compromise his beliefs and principles by appealing to the traditional democrat homeland.
We also must rembember that to the best of my knowledge, a wartime president has never been thrown out of office: this is something that could carry Blair through as well.
I think we can forget the Tories in our own election: chances are that they'll swap leaders again anyway),(but they may get the "country" vote by way of protest. The Lib Dems have the annoyingly patronising Kennedy but UKIP have blown it now that Joan Collins has upped and gone: she'd have made a great leader!
It's no good trying to be a jack of all trades, so to speak which I think Kerry tried to do.
Bush was clever: he set out to be a master of one, i.e to secure more votes from the States we won in 2000 by appealing more to his core followers and not compromise his beliefs and principles by appealing to the traditional democrat homeland.
We also must rembember that to the best of my knowledge, a wartime president has never been thrown out of office: this is something that could carry Blair through as well.
I think we can forget the Tories in our own election: chances are that they'll swap leaders again anyway),(but they may get the "country" vote by way of protest. The Lib Dems have the annoyingly patronising Kennedy but UKIP have blown it now that Joan Collins has upped and gone: she'd have made a great leader!
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by JBoulder
quote:
Originally posted by JonR:
More than 10,000 Iraqi civillians have died since Bush enacted his war in Iraq.
Make that 100 000.
http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,,2-10-1460_1612414,00.html
- - - - -
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly
what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be replaced by something even more bizarrely inexplicable. There is
another theory which states that this has already happened."
- Douglas Adams, 1952-2001 -
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by JBoulder
And Arye: What's your view on why there is such a threat of terrorism in Israel?. Nothing to do with Israely policy and action in the last few decades?
Johan
- - - - -
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly
what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be replaced by something even more bizarrely inexplicable. There is
another theory which states that this has already happened."
- Douglas Adams, 1952-2001 -
Johan
- - - - -
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly
what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be replaced by something even more bizarrely inexplicable. There is
another theory which states that this has already happened."
- Douglas Adams, 1952-2001 -
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by jayd
quote:
Originally posted by Arye_Gur:
I think that as citizens of the world, we are lucky that there is one country (and lucky we are a strong state) - that fights against terror.
Surely you don't mean to suggest that the US (or did you mean Israel?) is the only country in the world that fights terror? Personally, I believe citizens of the world are better served by the fact that most countries choose to fight terror within their own borders rather than extending their sovereignty wherever it pleases them.
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by Arye_Gur
JBoulder
Israel does mistakes, but still we don't murder kids in a discotheques and we don't murder dozens of citizens going by bus and we don't murder dozens of citizens sitting in coffee house on a sunny day and we don't still the money Europe is giving to save Palestinians (Arafat stole it!!! I heard that he has 3 billion $ in his bank!).
jayd,
I'm absolutely sure that Europe is not fighting the international terror.
I'll be glad to read about one act against terror encouraging states that Europe is taking.
It seems to me that you are living with your eyes widely shut. And it seems that the 9/11 didn't "impress" you as it should.
Arye
Israel does mistakes, but still we don't murder kids in a discotheques and we don't murder dozens of citizens going by bus and we don't murder dozens of citizens sitting in coffee house on a sunny day and we don't still the money Europe is giving to save Palestinians (Arafat stole it!!! I heard that he has 3 billion $ in his bank!).
jayd,
I'm absolutely sure that Europe is not fighting the international terror.
I'll be glad to read about one act against terror encouraging states that Europe is taking.
It seems to me that you are living with your eyes widely shut. And it seems that the 9/11 didn't "impress" you as it should.
Arye
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by matthewr
"Make that 100 000"
I am extremely dubious of that Lancet report for a number of reasons:
1) It's based on post hoc interviews with no (AFAICT) actual hard evidence (death certificates, bodies, corroborating eye witness accounts, etc.)
2) The margin of error is enormous (largely becuase of the above) and the study might indicate deaths as low as 8,000 or as high as 200,000.
3) If there are 100,000 violent deaths there should be a lot more bodies and a lot more injured people in hospitals (since acts of violence don't always kill, but also injure).
4) Absolutely everybody else thinks the number is about 15,000, whcih is bad enough without claiming a much larger figure that later turns out ot be bogus.
So, without more substantiation, I'd be inclined to not beleive the 98,000 figure.
Matthew
I am extremely dubious of that Lancet report for a number of reasons:
1) It's based on post hoc interviews with no (AFAICT) actual hard evidence (death certificates, bodies, corroborating eye witness accounts, etc.)
2) The margin of error is enormous (largely becuase of the above) and the study might indicate deaths as low as 8,000 or as high as 200,000.
3) If there are 100,000 violent deaths there should be a lot more bodies and a lot more injured people in hospitals (since acts of violence don't always kill, but also injure).
4) Absolutely everybody else thinks the number is about 15,000, whcih is bad enough without claiming a much larger figure that later turns out ot be bogus.
So, without more substantiation, I'd be inclined to not beleive the 98,000 figure.
Matthew
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by jayd
quote:
Originally posted by Arye_Gur:
jayd,
I'm absolutely sure that Europe is not fighting the international terror. I'll be glad to read about one act against terror encouraging states that Europe is taking.
It seems to me that you are living with your eyes widely shut. And it seems that the 9/11 didn't "impress" you as it should.
Arye
Arye,
I suspect you are about as qualified to comment on the foreign policies of European countries as you are to comment on what September 11th meant to me. To say nothing of your qualification to comment on the fitness of Bush as a leader.
Feel free to publicly pontificate on matters about which you know little or nothing, if you like. However, do not, even for a moment, presume to know my feelings about September 11th. You are not an American citizen. And you run the very real risk of pissing off someone who lost a relative in the Twin Towers.
Most sincerely,
Jay
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by Arye_Gur
Jay,
I guess that you want to teach me about loosing somone in terror act? Are you serious???
Arye
I guess that you want to teach me about loosing somone in terror act? Are you serious???
Arye
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by jayd
quote:
Originally posted by Arye_Gur:
Jay,
I guess that you want to teach me about loosing somone in terror act? Are you serious???
Arye
No, Arye. I want to teach you to mind your own freaking business.
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by JBoulder
quote:
Originally posted by Arye_Gur:
we don't murder kids in a discotheques and we don't murder dozens of citizens going by bus and we don't murder dozens of citizens sitting in coffee house on a sunny day
Are you saying that killing them with missiles while thay sleep in their homes would be the proper way?
In no way do I accept any violent action as a means of gaining whatever results the Palestinians are after, but are there ANY, violent or non-violent, that would make Israel give in even an inch? Sharon is trying, but the majority doesn't seem too keen...
And you didn't quite answer my question. Or if you think you did, you're the one with eyes wide shut, not wanting to see anything cracking the base of your 1 degree view of the world.
Johan
- - - - -
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly
what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be replaced by something even more bizarrely inexplicable. There is
another theory which states that this has already happened."
- Douglas Adams, 1952-2001 -
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by Jim Lawson
quote:
However, do not, even for a moment, presume to know my feelings about September 11th.
Where is Arye suggesting that he does ?
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by jayd
quote:
Originally posted by Jim Lawson:quote:
However, do not, even for a moment, presume to know my feelings about September 11th.
Where is Arye suggesting that he does ?
Here:
quote:
I'm absolutely sure that Europe is not fighting the international terror.
I'll be glad to read about one act against terror encouraging states that Europe is taking.
It seems to me that you are living with your eyes widely shut. And it seems that the 9/11 didn't "impress" you as it should.
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by Jim Lawson
Ooh. Right you are. Apologies.
Jim
Jim
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by matthewr
Arye is (I think) saying that the "impressive" nature of 9/11 can be extrapolated into acceptance of the apocolyptic view of "international terrorism" frequently made by the US and UK governments. And that once you accept that you should be willing to understand and accept the sort of extreme actions favoured by the lieks of Bush as proportionate and legitiamte acts of self-defence.
Matthew
Matthew
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by jayd
No worries Jim. I, like an almost-majority of Americans, am a bit tense lately, and for that, I apologize.
It's just bad enough with roughly 51% of America going on about how absolutely marvelous things are going to be over the next four years. I don't need Mick P. and Arye (or any other New World Republicans) legislating my morality, or telling me what it means to be an American.
It's just bad enough with roughly 51% of America going on about how absolutely marvelous things are going to be over the next four years. I don't need Mick P. and Arye (or any other New World Republicans) legislating my morality, or telling me what it means to be an American.
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by 7V
quote:
Originally posted by JBoulder:
...In no way do I accept any violent action as a means of gaining whatever results the Palestinians are after, but are there ANY, violent or non-violent, that would make Israel give in even an inch? Sharon is trying, but the majority doesn't seem too keen...
Johan,
Please re-read what you have written above and check to see if it accords with the historical or present day facts.
When Arafat finally dies, listen carefully to what the experts and authorities amongst his own people have to say about him and the opportunities for peace and Palestinian statehood that he has missed or refused.
Steve M
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by Mick P
Quote
"I don't need Mick P. and Arye (or any other New World Republicans) legislating my morality, or telling me what it means to be an American."
Please show me where I have done either.
Regards
Mick
"I don't need Mick P. and Arye (or any other New World Republicans) legislating my morality, or telling me what it means to be an American."
Please show me where I have done either.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by Arye_Gur
jayd,
International terror, who is the president of the USA or who is the primeminister of the UK is not my freaking problems.
Johan,
I'm not going to argue again about the war between the Palestinians and Israel.
Arye
International terror, who is the president of the USA or who is the primeminister of the UK is not my freaking problems.
Johan,
I'm not going to argue again about the war between the Palestinians and Israel.
Arye
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by JBoulder
quote:
Originally posted by Arye_Gur:
I'm not going to argue again about the war between the Palestinians and Israel.
Oh, well OK then...
Steve,
I will. I'm definatelly no expert in the matter, though I have long thought of Arafat being nothing but a problem in solving the situation. I may have gone too deep for my own good, but I was just trying to push Arye for his view of the origins of terrorism, which I think go way back to the "birth" of his country, which I can't see as just. I failed, though I understand from his reply, there is a thread somewhere on this matter. I'll try to find it.
I am, even though a sergeant in the reserve, a pasifist to the bone. But I also know that if I lived somewhere else, I might not be. A sad fact, from which the world we now live in can be explained, with agony.
- - - - -
"the recognition of facts is the beginning of all wisdom."
- J. K. Paasikivi -
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by 7V
Understood, Johan. Thank you.
Steve M
Steve M
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by MichaelC
quote:
Originally posted by AlexG:
I have a bowl of custard downstairs who is more likely to become the next PM
Alex
I suggest that you nominate the bowl of custard to stand for the election - I will happily move and vote for it.
Mike
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by jayd
quote:
Originally posted by Arye_Gur:
jayd,
International terror, who is the president of the USA or who is the primeminister of the UK is not my freaking problems.
Arye
If that's the case, seems you chose an interesting topic for your thread/original post.
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by jayd
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
Please show me where I have done either.
Since the forum's search function is nonexistent (and since, frankly, your body of work speaks for itself), I'll limit myself to a couple of recent examples of each.
America according to Mick:
quote:translation: Americans are like me, Mick Parry!
What I would like is for the British to become more like the Americans. I admire their energy, patriotism and go getting attitude.
quote:translation: Americans want what I, Mick Parry, want.
I would imagine, most Americans want the Iraqi elections to take place and then pull out asap.
Mick P. on what's "right":
quote:translation: Social Darwinism will make the world a better place for me, Mick Parry.
I begrude paying tax to support unmarried mothers etc.
quote:translation: Democrats are abnormal, unlike me, Mick Parry.
On this forum, it seems to be full of Democrats, am I the only normal person here who supports the majority vote of the American citizen.
And a final gem, just for impact:
quote:
History is basically worthless.
Posted on: 04 November 2004 by Mick P
Jay
I am not disagreeing with some of the statements in your answer but I asked for answers to this statement.
"I don't need Mick P. and Arye (or any other New World Republicans) legislating my morality, or telling me what it means to be an American."
I have not legislated on your morality nor have I told you what it means to be an American.
Those statements are snippets from other postings and overall reflect my support for a President that has the support of 51% of those who voted.
You have had 24 hours to sulk over the result, now grow up and act your age. It was your countrymen who voted him in and it time to accept the majority decision.
You should thank your lucky stars that you are the citizen of a nation that allows you to say what you think, you are much luckier than many others.
Regards
Mick
I am not disagreeing with some of the statements in your answer but I asked for answers to this statement.
"I don't need Mick P. and Arye (or any other New World Republicans) legislating my morality, or telling me what it means to be an American."
I have not legislated on your morality nor have I told you what it means to be an American.
Those statements are snippets from other postings and overall reflect my support for a President that has the support of 51% of those who voted.
You have had 24 hours to sulk over the result, now grow up and act your age. It was your countrymen who voted him in and it time to accept the majority decision.
You should thank your lucky stars that you are the citizen of a nation that allows you to say what you think, you are much luckier than many others.
Regards
Mick