Digital SLRs are they there yet

RD - HOw important is it that you reuse the Nikon glass?

If not take a look and hold of the Olympus E1, the www.dpreview.com was not too kind about it but quite a few users are very pleased with it.

Check out the Olympus SLR Talk Forum
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1022
on DPREVIEW to get the gist of what they are saying

Also checkout

http://www.myfourthirds.com/

for examples of the results that users are getting from the camera.

Is it too early - depends on what you want to do with it, how many pictures you will take with it

Is there enough MgPs - yes if A4 to A3 is your most likely largest print, yes if you want to do selective cropping for photo album size prints.
No if you want to create massive posters/murals - however users are getting amazing results.

Will todays DSLR be worthless in 5 years - I think so because the main driver will be the electronic gizmos which mean the DSLR will advance faster than film SLRs ever did.

However will todays DSLR still take good pictures in 5 years time that will meet your needs then I would expect it to do so.

Derek

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[This message was edited by Derek Wright on Wed 21 July 2004 at 19:28.]

[This message was edited by Derek Wright on Wed 21 July 2004 at 19:38.]

Rocking, the digital age arrived about two years ago.

It it requires is to let go of the past, soon you will be enjoying working in the digital age.

Doc,

I haven't used a digital SLR, so I can't say how far they have advanced in recent years or how good they are relative to film cameras. But using a modern film scanner to digitize your negs and slides is one way to get into digital photography without abandoning your old SLR and bag o' Nikkors.

Check out the attached pix to see what's possible when keeping a foot solidly in each camp. The pix below was taken with a film camera and scanned with a Minolta Scan Elite 5400:



This scanner generates a file with so much resolution that you could print a 16x24-inch photo at 300 dpi, which is far beyond what any non-pro camera would allow.

Joe, biding his time until Nikon releases an 11+ MP full-frame digital SLR

[This message was edited by Joe Petrik on Wed 21 July 2004 at 19:36.]

Doc,

Now is the time to invest in a digital camera. Go for the D70 if you don't have a very large budget, it's pretty good. It will be out of date in five years and binned within a few years from that. How long do you wait?

My advice is learn, learn, learn how to use Photoshop. It makes all the difference.

"Joe, biding his time until Nikon releases an 11+ MP full-frame digital SLR"

They won't yet. They reckon the "35mm" size lenses will not give high enough quality edge definition for a 36mmx24mm size ccd.

Count,

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They reckon the "35mm" size lenses will not give high enough quality edge definition for a 36mmx24mm size ccd.

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I've read that CCDs need better lenses than film for all sorts of reasons (CCDs being more sensitive to chromatic aberration, light rays needing to be more parallel for CCDs, etc.), but how did Canon get around that problem with their full-frame 11 MP EOS 1Ds? As far as I know, the 1Ds will take any AF Canon lens and with great results. Surely, Nikon can't be that far behind their major competitor.

Joe

[This message was edited by Joe Petrik on Wed 21 July 2004 at 22:49.]

Canon have had alot of stick from people complaining about poor edge definition. As much as it pains me, here is a quote from your dp report: "Full size sensor means that edge lens aberrations are now more visible than APS-size sensor"

I hate dp reviews and all other reviews. I should get a job reviewing products. Any products.

Nikon agree that edge definition shouldn't be compromised and I agree.

Count,

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Nikon agree that edge definition shouldn't be compromised and I agree.

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In practice, how bad is edge definition -- the lack of it, that is? Does it show up in real-world pix, or just shots of test charts and brick walls? A serious question, by the way. I've got several lenses that score crap on MTF tests, but seem plenty sharp and contrasty to me.

I'm really hoping that a full-frame sensor without edge definition problems is a solvable technological hurdle because I'm not at all keen on having the effective focal length of all my lenses increase by 1.5x should I buy a digital SLR.

quote:

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I should get a job reviewing products. Any products.

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How 'bout mattress reviewer? There's really only one way of finding out if the product is any good.

Joe

The definition is bad enough to annoy you just when you need it on a great shot. You probably wouldn't notice it on 80% of shots.

Nikon have gone on the route of producing smaller focal length lenses to produce the equivalent angle of view as 35mm. These lenses are generally stunning. I have a 10mm fisheye Nikon lens which I bought 6 months ago. This is designed for digital. The results never cease to amaze me. It also focuses from 5cm (yep 5cm).

What about Olympus's 3/4 technology?

I don't really understand it but a lot of noise was made.

Gary

I have the E1 which uses 4/3rds technology, I bought in to the system because it was designed from the ground up, unlike the Nikon Canon which grafted digital technology into their 35mm structures and has several compromises eg lens multiplier, weight, size etc.

The advantage of the Olympus technology is that they have developed a new system with new lenses that are optimised for the new sensor size and are significantly smaller and lighter than the 35mm specific lenses. One of the best sites that describe the E1 and its technology apart from the Olympus site is

dp-now first looks Olympus E1

This will also lead you on to other sites which have also looked at the E1

There are people making a living using the E1 camera. However each person has their prejudices and preferances so who is to say what is right or wrong.

All I know that is with digital I have expanded my use of photography both for myself and for others. For example today I was photographing Endal and his wheelchair bound master on the Gosport Ferry for various articles and by 3pm I had the images on a private website for his master to review them and give them to various publicty contacts. I will not be surprised to hear if they are used around the world in some of the disability and doggy press / websites.

Last week I was living in a 24 hour exclusion zone and so was able to get pictures and supply them to the local paper that was not able to cover the incident.

Not the great artistic photography demoed on this site but useful stuff for some one and a bit of fun for me.

Derek

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[This message was edited by Derek Wright on Thu 22 July 2004 at 18:10.]

This thread has inspired me to look more closely at digital SLR's I used to do a fair bit of (very amateur) photography with a 35mm SLR, however since my little girl was born (4 years ago now) time pressure combined with a 3.1 megapixel point and shoot sony jobbie has meant that its just collected dust... The appeal of the instant result, and the ability to try again if i make a hash of it has always been a strong point of the point and shoot sony, but id love to try and get back into something a little more serious... A question i do have that the experts out there may be able to help with is how/where do cameras like the popular Nikon D70 store the images. Just reading the spec i notice there is a distinct lack of info about such things as memory cards??? The SLRs ive briefly looked at have 6 to 8 megapixels so argubly memory hungry... what do i need to buy and budget for on top of the camera itself?

thanks

neil

Hawk.

Most of the cameras are using smart media or similar, some also use micro drives which are the same dimensions.

Check out places like crucial.com and you will see the price of memory cards has dropped signifcantly, you can pick 256meg cards for 40 quid now which is a bargin.

The size of the CCD does not necesserily point to the size of the image, mine is a 4megpixal ccd and the images on best quality come in at around 2megs.

If you use RAW format these are the big images with no compression, but should be used for special shots because they take a while to save and for general use are not needed.

Check out the canon EDOS cameras, I believe Jessops are even offering 6months intyerest free and you can walk away with a higher quality lenbs for a few quid more than the standard one.

Watch out for ebay they seem to be coming from abroad, and the small print states VAT has not been added, and this particular camera its easy to accidently purchase just the body thinking you got the whole package.

I have subscribed to digital camera magazine, which I think is a really good publication for people like me that don't know a lot, good articles on getting the most from photoshop and reviews as well.

Cheers Gary, Sound advice... I'll venture to the Harlequin centre and pay jessops a visit and look at the Canon's in the flesh.. It could be a good move as ive got a 35mm EOS collecting dust and i might be able to use the lense with it..
I must admit i had been scanning ebay but i didnt like the idea of buying imports..

iPhoto has alot to answer for... i think apple is as bad as naim for inciting upgrade and add ons!
cheers

Neil

Try and get the baldy guy and not the two kids who are muppets!

They have the canon in there. I bought it then returned it the next day, they weren't pleased.

I retured it because in macro mode if you had it on basic shoot modes (I do mostly) it would decide for you if you needed the flash, and up it would pop. In macro it meant that you couldn't get a decent shot.

I also compared with my E10 and I didn't think the picture quality was any better, but this was with the standard lens, the advantage of the canon is all the lens you can use, plus I liked the focusing on the canon a lot more.

iphoto is very good. I notice a couple of PC software titles out which have a go at iphoto and imovie, they are however hilarious.

How apple enable you te resize 1000s of photos so quickly is beyond me. One thing though if you havn't got the latest iphoto (4) its well worth buying the ilife package becaise 4 is a lot quicker plus you get garage band, which is also awsome.

Mick, Digital self loading rifles not from Eton, What d'yer reckon ?


Fritz von Chelsea

All

Pardon m ignorance.

I have an old Pentax K1000 35mm SLR with multiple lenses, filters etc.

Can these lenses be used with a digital SLR body or is it a matter of
starting completely from scratch if I want to go digital?

Cheers

Brian

Gotta be quick so here goes:
Until Fuji Velvia, about 30Mb in comparison, is beaten then its analog for the time being.
Martin

Yes, they are. (see http://luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/dq.shtml but note it is 2 years out of date).
The D70 will be no more obsolete than a CDS3.
Shoot RAW and use Photoshop or equivalent (C1 LE, Photoshop Elements, Paintshop Pro are cheaper), make the photos look how you want them to look, get great prints of just the ones you want (via the Internet, if you like).

Richard

Rock 'n' Roll ain't mains pollution

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Richard P:
The D70 will be no more obsolete than a CDS3.
Shoot RAW and use Photoshop
Richard

I'm pretty sure my friend's point was exactly that the D70 doesn't produce a true RAW file.

I already have a good film scanner in case you all thought I was a total Luddite.
It is which body is best for the Nikkors? that is the question.

Doc,

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It is which body is best for the Nikkors? that is the question.

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Which Nikkors do you have? If they're manual focus lenses, as most of mine are, be prepared to forgo an internal light meter if you buy a D70 or D100. You get a functioning meter only if you use an AF lens. It's really a shame that Nikon's affordable digital SLRs give you so few functions with their MF lenses, but it seems they're going after a different market with their D70 and D100.

But this problem is addressed if you get one of the pro bodies. The D2H gives you full light meter functions (matrix, centre-weighted and spot metering) with MF lenses, and the D1x gives you centre-weighted and spot metering.

Joe

Thanks Joe. That is really helpful advice that NO camera shop has ever told me.
I have;
20mm AF, 24mm M, 32mm M, 50mm M, 60mm macro AF, 85mm M, 135mm M.
So I really need a body that will allow metering. I bought the manual lenses on purpose as I was using F3 bodies and believe them to be better optically and mechanically to the earlier AF lenses.

Now I need to find out if the Kodak Pro allows metering with manual Nikkors. As it is based on the F80, I doubt it, despite the 4K price tag.

D1s are appearing quite cheaply second-hand now.

Doc,

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That is really helpful advice that NO camera shop has ever told me.

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There used to be a time when old Nikon bodies worked more or less fully with new Nikkor lenses, and vise versa, but the latest series of cameras and lenses are not nearly as backward and forward compatible as their predecessors, so caveat emptor if you haven't done your homework...

... and here's the first assignment -- check this camera-lens compatibility table.

Given that you have several MF Nikkors, I'd recommend staying clear of the D70 and D100 -- as well as the Kodak 14N -- if you fancy having a functioning internal meter. All of these bodies are based on consumer film cameras and are severely limited if used with old MF lenses.

The D1, D1x and D1h are based on pro bodies. All good choices and will maintain metering with MF lenses, but keep in mind that you will not get matrix metering, only center-weighted and spot, with these models. Oddly, the D2h provides all metering modes with MF lenses, so it can be done.

Personally, if I were looking for a digital SLR, I'd get either a used D1x (because of the resolution -- ~5.5 MP) or a D2h (because of the lens compatibility). Actually, what I want is the fictitious F6/D3. That's what Nikon should build.

Joe

Does anybody know whether my Pentax type fit lenses will fit any of these digital SLR bodies you're going on about?

Don't crush me under the stampede.

Brian,

The camera models previously mentioned will not work with Pentax lenses any more than film bodies would, but the Pentax *ist D D-SLR will take the following Pentax lenses:

* PENTAX KAF mount compatible with PENTAX KAF2-, KAF- and KA- mount lenses; power Zoom function not available

* K-mount lenses usable with restrictions

* S-mount lenses usable with adapter and restrictions

* 67/645 lenses usable with adapter and restrictions

More info here, here, and here.

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Don't crush me under the stampede

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Does one constitute a stampede?

Joe