The Apple Slag (thats me)
Posted by: garyi on 28 August 2004
Well after months of deliberation and non care I got me one of these.
Trouble is my graphics card has in essence got out and told me to piss off, so more outlay.
Still its only a bit of fun
Let me tell you I am totally blown away by the screen, utterly chuffed.
Trouble is my graphics card has in essence got out and told me to piss off, so more outlay.
Still its only a bit of fun
Let me tell you I am totally blown away by the screen, utterly chuffed.
Posted on: 29 August 2004 by garyi
MAt, in fairness you have stated that apple get phillips to build to a different spec so in essence its different?
I think perhaps we work on different priorities, of course I don't require a 23 inch display, but thing is I really wanted one because they look gorgeous! I think perhaps you need to use your PC for a living?
ONe thing is for sure, the real estate is superb, this screen is different to the older flat panels, there is significantly more resolution, I think if I had plumbed for the older 23 incher I would ultimately have been disappointed. BTW It seems most John Lewis's are selling the older apple 23 incher for 999, which even you Mat will agree is a great price.
Just need a graphics card now which hopefully will be cheap as my Dad knows someone in America who he is visiting next week. Unreal Tornement runs at av 30 FPS on this screen
I think perhaps we work on different priorities, of course I don't require a 23 inch display, but thing is I really wanted one because they look gorgeous! I think perhaps you need to use your PC for a living?
ONe thing is for sure, the real estate is superb, this screen is different to the older flat panels, there is significantly more resolution, I think if I had plumbed for the older 23 incher I would ultimately have been disappointed. BTW It seems most John Lewis's are selling the older apple 23 incher for 999, which even you Mat will agree is a great price.
Just need a graphics card now which hopefully will be cheap as my Dad knows someone in America who he is visiting next week. Unreal Tornement runs at av 30 FPS on this screen
Posted on: 29 August 2004 by matthewr
Different size, not spec.
But they are cool so I wouldn't diss your choice. Just that fro £1500 I'd expect the screen to come with built-in high quality porn or something.
Matthew
But they are cool so I wouldn't diss your choice. Just that fro £1500 I'd expect the screen to come with built-in high quality porn or something.
Matthew
Posted on: 29 August 2004 by garyi
I have ampland for that lol
Posted on: 29 August 2004 by Joe Petrik
iGary,
Both the previous 23-inch Apple LCD and the new one have exactly the same total resolution -- 1920x1200 -- but the new panel is brighter (270 cd/m2 vs 200 cd/m2) and has a higher contrast ratio (400:1 vs 350:1).
The one thing I can't figure out is how the newer model displays more pixels per inch (~100 ppi) than the previous one (~85 ppi), given that the total resolution, pixel pitch and physical size of the two 23-inch panels are identical. Maybe Dr. Who could explain.
See previous 23-inch model vs new 23-inch model.
Joe
quote:
...this screen is different to the older flat panels, there is significantly more resolution, I think if I had plumbed for the older 23 incher I would ultimately have been disappointed.
Both the previous 23-inch Apple LCD and the new one have exactly the same total resolution -- 1920x1200 -- but the new panel is brighter (270 cd/m2 vs 200 cd/m2) and has a higher contrast ratio (400:1 vs 350:1).
The one thing I can't figure out is how the newer model displays more pixels per inch (~100 ppi) than the previous one (~85 ppi), given that the total resolution, pixel pitch and physical size of the two 23-inch panels are identical. Maybe Dr. Who could explain.
See previous 23-inch model vs new 23-inch model.
Joe
Posted on: 29 August 2004 by garyi
Shhh, joe the wife has been told different 
Posted on: 30 August 2004 by Top Cat
Gary/Matthew,
I'm thinking along the same lines (having made the rather painless switch to a Powerbook G4, I'm planning on replacing a desktop PC with a G5-Dual and either the 23" Apple or 2x20" non-Apple LCDs (1600x1200 res.).
Matthew, 3200x1200 dual desktop would be very nice, but do you think it's possible to get two 20" LCDs which are as good as the 23" Apple (which I have now had a chance to view)?
My work would be a mix of Photoshop, Cubase SX and everyday surf&email, plus RDC into a couple of PCs I can't let go.
My anticipated budget is going to be around £2750 to include G4 dual, but I'm planning to hang back until next April or May (after bonus time). I might get the screen(s) beforehand.
How do third party LCDs compare for photoshop work these days? My old laptop was a Dell which had a very nice 1600x1200 15" LCD which turned out to be very good for PS use, but equally I'm typing this using an Eizo FlexScan L660 at work which is lousy.
So, Matthew, what do you recommend, screen-wise? Size is important (heh heh) =- big as possible with a compact rim (oooh, matron!)
Ta,
John The Apple Slag-In-Waiting
I'm thinking along the same lines (having made the rather painless switch to a Powerbook G4, I'm planning on replacing a desktop PC with a G5-Dual and either the 23" Apple or 2x20" non-Apple LCDs (1600x1200 res.).
Matthew, 3200x1200 dual desktop would be very nice, but do you think it's possible to get two 20" LCDs which are as good as the 23" Apple (which I have now had a chance to view)?
My work would be a mix of Photoshop, Cubase SX and everyday surf&email, plus RDC into a couple of PCs I can't let go.
My anticipated budget is going to be around £2750 to include G4 dual, but I'm planning to hang back until next April or May (after bonus time). I might get the screen(s) beforehand.
How do third party LCDs compare for photoshop work these days? My old laptop was a Dell which had a very nice 1600x1200 15" LCD which turned out to be very good for PS use, but equally I'm typing this using an Eizo FlexScan L660 at work which is lousy.
So, Matthew, what do you recommend, screen-wise? Size is important (heh heh) =- big as possible with a compact rim (oooh, matron!)
Ta,
John The Apple Slag-In-Waiting
Posted on: 30 August 2004 by garyi
Why not an apple 30 incher topcat, jesus that would be like looking round a football pitch
Posted on: 30 August 2004 by matthewr
"but do you think it's possible to get two 20" LCDs which are as good as the 23" Apple"
Well you could always get 2 of Apple's 20" screens.
"How do third party LCDs compare for photoshop work these days?"
If by "for Photoshop work" you mean accurate colour, true black and high contrast then you (generally speaking) want an S-IPS based screen. You can tell these as they are a) pricey and b) have the 170 degree viewing angle. To be more exact is a bit difficult as nobody quotes the exact panel in any particular monitor but if you compare refresh rates, contrast ratios, etc. you can usually tell which ones are based on the same hardware.
The obvious alternative to Apple are the LG "Flatron" monitors as they make the panels for Apple (at least they have the same specs and produce a 23" and 30" models so it seems very likely), so picture quality should be very similar if not identical. They do a very good 19" (1280x1024, L1920P) for about £470 and a 20" (1600x1200, L2010P) for about £730. Their 23" is even more expensive than Apple's version.
Alternatively the Eizo L885 is based on the Sharp S-IPS 20ms panel and has won lots of awards (it's A Listed) and is aimed at PS types (it comes with various bits of of colour calibration software, etc.). It's not far of Apple prices though.
Note that opinions vary massively on these so you must see the thing in person before making a choice.
Matthew
Well you could always get 2 of Apple's 20" screens.
"How do third party LCDs compare for photoshop work these days?"
If by "for Photoshop work" you mean accurate colour, true black and high contrast then you (generally speaking) want an S-IPS based screen. You can tell these as they are a) pricey and b) have the 170 degree viewing angle. To be more exact is a bit difficult as nobody quotes the exact panel in any particular monitor but if you compare refresh rates, contrast ratios, etc. you can usually tell which ones are based on the same hardware.
The obvious alternative to Apple are the LG "Flatron" monitors as they make the panels for Apple (at least they have the same specs and produce a 23" and 30" models so it seems very likely), so picture quality should be very similar if not identical. They do a very good 19" (1280x1024, L1920P) for about £470 and a 20" (1600x1200, L2010P) for about £730. Their 23" is even more expensive than Apple's version.
Alternatively the Eizo L885 is based on the Sharp S-IPS 20ms panel and has won lots of awards (it's A Listed) and is aimed at PS types (it comes with various bits of of colour calibration software, etc.). It's not far of Apple prices though.
Note that opinions vary massively on these so you must see the thing in person before making a choice.
Matthew
Posted on: 30 August 2004 by Top Cat
Hi, thanks for the thoughts. "you could always get 2 of Apple's 20" screens." - very true, though I think others' 20" screens have higher resolution and I'm a resolution wh0re.
As I said, I'm not ready to do anything just yet, but something along the lines of the LGs you mention would be ideal: 3200x1200 res. overall at a cost of around £1500, compares very well to £1400ish for the 23" Apple. I'll look into all the models you mention, but of course it's quite some way until April and perhaps something even better will crop up - 2000-ish pixels horizontally x 2 would be fantastic.
John
PS. Dunno if I'll get the G5 before the screens or vice versa - I've two 15" Philips LCDs doing not very much that would work well in the meantime...
As I said, I'm not ready to do anything just yet, but something along the lines of the LGs you mention would be ideal: 3200x1200 res. overall at a cost of around £1500, compares very well to £1400ish for the 23" Apple. I'll look into all the models you mention, but of course it's quite some way until April and perhaps something even better will crop up - 2000-ish pixels horizontally x 2 would be fantastic.
John
PS. Dunno if I'll get the G5 before the screens or vice versa - I've two 15" Philips LCDs doing not very much that would work well in the meantime...
Posted on: 30 August 2004 by garyi
MAt, when I was purchasing I did look at LG, but the viewing angle didn't appear as good, are you sure they are the same ones in the apple?
Could software determine any of this, on PCs flatscreens always look shit to me, except the sonys
Could software determine any of this, on PCs flatscreens always look shit to me, except the sonys
Posted on: 30 August 2004 by matthewr
I am about 98% sure Apple use LG panels. There aren't that many people who make them and there are even fewer who make 20ms S-IPS panels and in sizes up to including 23" and 30". The viewing angle of their high end panels is 170 degrees or better.
"Could software determine any of this, on PCs flatscreens always look shit to me"
Brightness, contrast and colour calibration both in software and via the monitors OSD can all make big differences.
Matthew
"Could software determine any of this, on PCs flatscreens always look shit to me"
Brightness, contrast and colour calibration both in software and via the monitors OSD can all make big differences.
Matthew
Posted on: 30 August 2004 by Greg Beatty
garyi -
Very nice. Very nice indeed.
But...
...does it sound better? Bjezzus...we're on the second page of this thread and no one has mentioned the sound!
And yes...20" may be better value, but if 23" is what is wanted then the price of the 20" is irrelevant. But thank you very much for the info Matt as a 20"er would do the trick for me
- GregB
Insert Witty Signature Line Here
Very nice. Very nice indeed.
But...
...does it sound better? Bjezzus...we're on the second page of this thread and no one has mentioned the sound!
And yes...20" may be better value, but if 23" is what is wanted then the price of the 20" is irrelevant. But thank you very much for the info Matt as a 20"er would do the trick for me
- GregB
Insert Witty Signature Line Here
Posted on: 31 August 2004 by Roy T
Garyi, Upgrade time?
quote:
What if you could fit your whole life — all your music, all your photos, all your movies, all your email — in a computer as fun and useful as an iPod? Now you can. Introducing the futuristic iMac G5 in 17- and 20-inch widescreen models. The entire computer, including a G5-based logic board, slot-loading optical drive, hard disk, speakers, and even the power supply — dwells inside the enchanting display. Modern living starts at $1299.
Posted on: 31 August 2004 by garyi
Yea there was a lot of speculation around the web about the G5 imac, I could see it becoming messy for me I have 13 USB devices connected to my mac, imagine that lot stuck out the back.
Personally I owuld have created the imac based on a small box and wireless technology tot he screen and keyboard, that way you could hide all the crap.
Personally I owuld have created the imac based on a small box and wireless technology tot he screen and keyboard, that way you could hide all the crap.
Posted on: 31 August 2004 by Paul Hutchings
My god.. as a PC user looking for a good quality, nice looking well sized TFT that G5 is bloody tempting.. shame it doesn't have an additional DVI input :-(
Anyone care to convince me why I should get a mac? Oh.. I'm a network/server admin so "they don't break" doesn't mean much as I can usually fix them :-)
Paul
Anyone care to convince me why I should get a mac? Oh.. I'm a network/server admin so "they don't break" doesn't mean much as I can usually fix them :-)
Paul
Posted on: 31 August 2004 by garyi
Paul, you want one therefore the question has been answered.
Posted on: 31 August 2004 by Greg Beatty
Hey Paul -
The main issue for me is the maintenance issue you mention. Related to that is the ease of adding new peripherals. We've use a scanner, 2 iPods, 2 Palm Pilots, a digital still camera, a digital video camera, an external hard drive, and a printer with out little iBook and have never had anything but a "plug-and-play" experience with any of them.
But if you have the knowledge (and it sounds like you do!) so that this is not an issue, well then...
- GregB
Insert Witty Signature Line Here
The main issue for me is the maintenance issue you mention. Related to that is the ease of adding new peripherals. We've use a scanner, 2 iPods, 2 Palm Pilots, a digital still camera, a digital video camera, an external hard drive, and a printer with out little iBook and have never had anything but a "plug-and-play" experience with any of them.
But if you have the knowledge (and it sounds like you do!) so that this is not an issue, well then...
- GregB
Insert Witty Signature Line Here
Posted on: 01 September 2004 by Paul Hutchings
I mean on the PC side, usually "PC's crash" is the reason touted to get a mac, what I mean was PC's crashing isn't usually a problem for me.
Put it this way, I use my PC for the following, so what would the mac equivalents be (or where is a good place to look to "bone up" on macs?) -
Internet (Internet Explorer)
Newsgroups (Xnews or BNR2)
P2P (Usually WinMX)
DVD burning/copying (Nero and DVD Decryptor/DVDshrink)
What's the score with the stuff that's "trivial" on a PC such as being able to play DVDs from all regions etc..
I'm sorely tempted by one of these on looks/neatness alone but as with anything, if it won't do what I want what's the point..
Paul (at work so at least I can look at apple.com and look like i'm working!).
Put it this way, I use my PC for the following, so what would the mac equivalents be (or where is a good place to look to "bone up" on macs?) -
Internet (Internet Explorer)
Newsgroups (Xnews or BNR2)
P2P (Usually WinMX)
DVD burning/copying (Nero and DVD Decryptor/DVDshrink)
What's the score with the stuff that's "trivial" on a PC such as being able to play DVDs from all regions etc..
I'm sorely tempted by one of these on looks/neatness alone but as with anything, if it won't do what I want what's the point..
Paul (at work so at least I can look at apple.com and look like i'm working!).
Posted on: 01 September 2004 by garyi
Paul it will do all that provided you get the mid specced or 20 inch imac (For dvd burning)
News groups there are literaly undreds of programmes that will get you into all or a selct few.
Its built on unix so you can play with open source till your heart is content.
LImewire for P2P or there are again loads of imitators
Explorer, camino, firefox, safari, Opera, Netscape + about a million other explorer type apps out there.
Contrary to popular belief there is very little you can do on a OPC that you can't on mac, perhaps the opnly limitation I have found is games software, but again the main titles are realeased on mac.
Photoshop, illustrator etc started life on a mac.
The software that comes with macs allows you to crete and burn DVDs, Movies, CDs and photo albums. You can also create your own music and collect email all free software
News groups there are literaly undreds of programmes that will get you into all or a selct few.
Its built on unix so you can play with open source till your heart is content.
LImewire for P2P or there are again loads of imitators
Explorer, camino, firefox, safari, Opera, Netscape + about a million other explorer type apps out there.
Contrary to popular belief there is very little you can do on a OPC that you can't on mac, perhaps the opnly limitation I have found is games software, but again the main titles are realeased on mac.
Photoshop, illustrator etc started life on a mac.
The software that comes with macs allows you to crete and burn DVDs, Movies, CDs and photo albums. You can also create your own music and collect email all free software
Posted on: 01 September 2004 by Top Cat
I have to agree with Gary on this one. I'm a recent PC->Mac convert, and a professional developer/architect as well. Not being particularly interested in games (no time for 'em), the only thing that makes me keep a PC of any sort is the fact that I need .NET. So, as a compromise perhaps you can do as I'm doing - buy the Mac, and keep a basic headless/keyboardless PC into which you Remote Desktop from the Mac for those occasions when only a PC will do. This works surprisingly well, so long as you have a decent network.
The new iMacs are very tempting, eh? I *was* going to go for a dual G5 and either one or two 20" monitors, but the G5 iMac gives me the option of saving quite a lot of money at the expense of a fair bit of expandability and power.
Ah, decisions, decisions...
John
The new iMacs are very tempting, eh? I *was* going to go for a dual G5 and either one or two 20" monitors, but the G5 iMac gives me the option of saving quite a lot of money at the expense of a fair bit of expandability and power.
Ah, decisions, decisions...
John
Posted on: 01 September 2004 by JonR
Top Cat,
I suspect a G5 (Dual) will probably have enough processing welly to power Virtual PC (assuming there's a version available for G5 Mac's), thus obviating the need for a PC box altogether....surely that must be a tempting prospect - imagine how much space you'd save!
Regards,
JonR
I suspect a G5 (Dual) will probably have enough processing welly to power Virtual PC (assuming there's a version available for G5 Mac's), thus obviating the need for a PC box altogether....surely that must be a tempting prospect - imagine how much space you'd save!
Regards,
JonR
Posted on: 01 September 2004 by Paul Hutchings
My PC is an Asus Pundit which is tiny and damn near silent anyway.. hmm.. if i can run it headless I wonder if you can get a decent remote desktop client for the mac rather than muck about with emulation :-)
Any funnies with wireless networking? Pundit and a PC downstairs talk on ad-hoc 802.11g - nothing needed other than the wireless module?
I believe the 20" TFT is NOT the same panel as the cinema display which seems to get unversal praise for its niceness.
What's the score with things like DVD copying and multi-region compatability? Most PC drives/software tends to be locked and you have to "work around" it.. what happens with a mac?
I'd like to see some reviews first and as I understand it they aren't shipping for a few weeks anyway so there's no mad rush to decide today..
Any funnies with wireless networking? Pundit and a PC downstairs talk on ad-hoc 802.11g - nothing needed other than the wireless module?
I believe the 20" TFT is NOT the same panel as the cinema display which seems to get unversal praise for its niceness.
What's the score with things like DVD copying and multi-region compatability? Most PC drives/software tends to be locked and you have to "work around" it.. what happens with a mac?
I'd like to see some reviews first and as I understand it they aren't shipping for a few weeks anyway so there's no mad rush to decide today..
Posted on: 01 September 2004 by Top Cat
quote:Yep, if you'd caught my last reply I was saying that's *precisely* what I am doing.
I wonder if you can get a decent remote desktop client for the mac
I control an Athlon box and a Xeon dual 3GHz server (which lives elsewhere) via the Mac; the RDC (Remote Desktop Client) software runs well - no problems at all. On a Gigabit ethernet it oughta run really well; I'm using 802.11g via Airport Extreme into a D-Link 624 54GHz router into a 10/100 switch into the PC in the house and out over the webinet to the server (protected by firewall).
So, yeah, it is possible.
John
Posted on: 01 September 2004 by Stephen Bennett
quote:
Originally posted by Paul Hutchings:
Any funnies with wireless networking? Pundit and a PC downstairs talk on ad-hoc 802.11g - nothing needed other than the wireless module?
What's the score with things like DVD copying and multi-region compatability? Most PC drives/software tends to be locked and you have to "work around" it.. what happens with a mac?
Paul
Wireless networking on a Mac is seamless with PCs and other Macs. You can use any wireless basestation (I use a 3Com and Airport).
As for DVDs, you can change the BIOS several times (10? I can't remember!) before it 'locks' to that region. But there are hacks tavailable which allow it to be reset. Also, VLC DVD player software will play any region DVDs and it's free.
Regards
Stephen
T
Posted on: 01 September 2004 by Paul Hutchings
Thanks all, to be clear, would a wireless access point be needed, or are macs happy working in ad-hoc wireless mode?
Sounds like multi-region DVD playback should be possible.
Looks like remote desktop could be a pain as I have XP home on my home PC and it can't act as a remote desktop host.
Does anyone have an idea when these are going to be shipping and in the stores? On the apple site I see no mention of leadtimes?
Paul
Sounds like multi-region DVD playback should be possible.
Looks like remote desktop could be a pain as I have XP home on my home PC and it can't act as a remote desktop host.
Does anyone have an idea when these are going to be shipping and in the stores? On the apple site I see no mention of leadtimes?
Paul