Hutter bliss

Posted by: bob atherton on 30 November 2000

I have waited a few weeks before posting my findings with Hutter. First impressions can be deceptive & I really wanted to get the measure of these stands.

My previous support arrangement was a bit of a mixed bag. The TT & CD were on Mana. The tuner & amps on modified Tripod & Greenline. I had always been fairly satisfied with the old setup, but guessed that latent potential in the hardware was not being realised.

After about a year of listening to different stands & also listening to peoples opinions that I respect my short list was either all Mana or all Hutter. I plumped for Hutter. Had I gone for Mana I doubt if I would be writing this now as plenty of fine words on that subject have graced this forum.

I ended up buying 2 stacks each comprising of hi fi base & 4 extra shelves. I chose to have 50mm spacers inbetween the shelves, giving a distance between shelves of 140mm, ideal for Naim boxes. Assembly was simplicity itself. Level the sub base, make sure the spikes are tight (no tuning here) & add the shelves. I also connected the 2 stacks with lateral 50mm spacers. Total cost of all this including shipping from Longtone Hifi in Vienna was just under 1100 UKP.

At this time my SNAXO & a Hicap were at Naim for service, so the system was in a somewhat smaller scale passive mode, although I was still using both 250's, a bit like a pair of 125's .

My initial reaction was quite favourable, but there was an annoying edge to the sound, a bit like when my Mana was not in tune. My instinct told me that the cause were the lateral joining bars, so I tried the 2 stands without them. Immediately the edge vanished & incredible music filled my sitting room.

I lived with the passive system for 2 weeks before the boxes came back from Salisbury. In that time the stands improved almost daily. I guess because they are made of wood a longer settling in period should be expected. I don't beleive that a quick dem in a shop will give you any idea of the stands ultimate performance.

Over these 2 weeks the bass got tighter & deeper. The top end became more open & natural. At the end of this fortnight the system had never sounded so good & was _FAR_ better than the old active one.

The CD player sounded less like a CD player. Vinyl had less surface noise & on all sources the ability to delve deeply into the mix was easy. This ability is not a virtue unless accompanied with cohesion & musical flow. The system had both these in spades. The more music I played I realised that it was now streets ahead of the old active one. Then the SNAXO & Hicap came back from Naim.....

This lifted things up another gear. To be honest probably no greater an improvement than when I went active with my old racks.

I have now lived with a fully Huttered system for only 3 weeks yet I do not have the slightest doubt that my choice of Hutter was the correct one.

The overriding feeling that I have with Hutter is that you can hear, understand & connect with the performance in front of you in a far easier & less fatiguing way than ever before.

when the Hutter first arrived my initial reaction was that the musical improvement was equal to when I got my LP12 back in '85. I felt this could be a bit of a knee jerk reaction to the new presentation. Yet 3 weeks on I still feel the same way.

If you are looking for a very serious rack I think you would be barmy not to check out Hutter.

Bob


[This message was edited by bob atherton on THURSDAY 30 November 2000 at 14:50.

[This message was edited by bob atherton on THURSDAY 30 November 2000 at 14:51.]

[This message was edited by bob atherton on THURSDAY 30 November 2000 at 14:56.]

Posted on: 30 November 2000 by John Channing
Bob,
Great to hear that you are enjoying your Hutter. Did you buy Racktime or Racktime Basic? Did you go for the standard width (600mm) or did you get a smaller custom size (such as 500mm, perfect for Naim)?
John
Ps. Sinisa must be doing a lot of business

Music is the answer.

Posted on: 30 November 2000 by Top Cat
...great to hear that you've made it to where you want to be with supports.

One wee question - does this mean that you have some Mana for sale? If so, let me know what you have, as one can never have enough Mana

John

Posted on: 30 November 2000 by Andrew Randle
Bob,

I'm not clear about what those "lateral joining bars" are...

The only bars I'm aware of are those metal posts that link the shelves together - which are vital.

Please clarify.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

Posted on: 04 December 2000 by Arun Mehan
Now I need to listen to some Naim on HUTTER! Does the madness ever end???

I better go into Psychiatry, I know I'll be losing my sanity one of these days. Then I can have the fun of treating myself

Posted on: 04 December 2000 by bob atherton
Guys,

Sorry to have taken a bit of time to get back to you, can't drag myself away from the music.

John Channing, I bought the basic shelves in standard 600 mm width. I know I could have got 500 mm made up, but I had only heard the standard ones, & I didn't want to risk it sounding different with narrower units. I also like the proportions of the 600 with. The side & top gaps around the boxes to me seems well balanced.

John Clark, sorry the local vultures have feasted themselves on all my old stands.

Andrew Randle, Jason has kindly explained the joining bars. The odd thing with them is that they link the first level above the sub base. They would only make any sense to me if they linked the sub bases.

Jason Hector, thanks for answering the query from Andrew. Your enthusiasm for Hutter now makes perfect sense!

Arun Mehan, you don't _have_ to hear Hutter but if you can track some down I don't think you will be disappointed. As for psychiatry, I guess it's only a short step from Hutter to Nutter!

Bob.

Posted on: 04 December 2000 by bob atherton
Good to hear from you. If you get to the Bristol show next February I owe you a drink.

Bob.

Posted on: 04 December 2000 by Andrew Randle
Jason,

Thanx for the info. I'm sitting on the fence about Mana/Hutter until February when ready to buy. For the time being, I'm in the process of buying a HI-CAP.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

Posted on: 04 December 2000 by Bob Edwards
Bob Atherton--

Would you please email me at robertedwards@qwest.net ?

Cheers,

Bob

Posted on: 04 December 2000 by Philip Pang
Bob

Glad to read a post on the Hutter racks.

2 queries:

I quite liked the maple look from their website - and was wondering which veneer finish you took.

Couldn't tell which Hutter veneer was used through Joel Benford's home pictures - the computer does things quite unimaginably when it comes to colour.

Is their varnish matt or glossy?

Philip Pang

naimniac for life

Posted on: 05 December 2000 by matthewr
>> Couldn't tell which Hutter veneer was used through Joel Benford's home pictures <<

Joel's Hutter is finished in Pear. Similar to Beech but a bit darker and a little more interesting grain wise. Looks great.

Matthew

Posted on: 05 December 2000 by Tony L
quote:
For all UK readers interested in hearing / buying (its the same once you have heard it ;-> ) Hutter:

I heard a dem recently of Hutter vs Quadraspire, and to my ears whilst it was obvious that the Hutter had far better sonic traits, the Quadraspire allowed the equipment to time noticeably better. To say this surprised me is a massive, massive understatement.

For me the strengths / weaknesses were (and remember this is my opinion - I'm not trying to start a bloody war):

Hutter: Clean, open, realistic resolution of timbre, and plenty of low level detail and acoustic space. Downside was a lack of swing, groove, and musical flow compared to the Quadraspire. Sounded like the brakes had been applied. Bottom line it sounds good but its timing is a bit sick.

Quadraspire: Very good musical flow, adequate groove. Downside from my perspective is poor timbre, dynamics, and detail resolution, obvious coloration, and a slightly shut in and mushy sound. Bottom line - it times well but sounds a bit sick.

Neither stand did anything at all to remotely shake my confidence in my own rather more ferrous purchasing decision, actually they did quite the opposite.

Tony.

Posted on: 05 December 2000 by bob atherton
Tony,

I'm really surprised that Hutter did not groove for you. To my ears it has plenty in a very natural swinging way. Most of the music I listen to is blues, jazz or soul, all stuff that demands good flow & groove.

Your mileage obviously did vary!

I think you might agree that a home dem is always the way to asses equipment fully.

Bob.

Posted on: 05 December 2000 by Paul Stephenson
Tony, I think the timing issue maybe one of set up and equipment placement. Interesting comparison though, I will do it myself this week when I visit a dealer.
Posted on: 05 December 2000 by Andrew Randle
Paul,

Will Naim be distributing Hutter?
Can I buy through Naim?

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

Posted on: 05 December 2000 by Tony L
quote:
I'm really surprised that Hutter did not groove for you.

Not half as surprised as I was. I have previously heard Hutter in Jawed's system, and that grooves very well indeed - its just that I had not actually made a direct comparison before. I have previously compared Mana with Quadraspire.

quote:
Tony, I think the timing issue maybe one of set up and equipment placement.

The (informal) dem took place at a very respected dealer, though I have to admit I was not satisfied that the system was giving anywhere near optimal performance using either stand. System used was CDX / 82 / Hicap / 180 / Credo.

Tony.

Posted on: 05 December 2000 by Tony L
quote:
If you are ever in the London area drop me a line and come have a listen, you can then hear what Shahinians can do as well.

I'm down in London at the weekend to hear Joel's totally max'd out system, I have not heard it since the Hutter and 500s arrived. Please email me your phone number and I will give you a ring when I know what my arrangements are. I would love to hear Shahinians well set up.

Cheers

Tony.

Posted on: 08 December 2000 by Naheed
It is a better 'glossie' mag, and the reviews are better than the crap nowadays in Hifi Choice/News/World (probably cos the don't review enough Naim gear)...

Jason, since you guys have reviewed the 'inferior' Hutter for Wood-Nutters, why not review a Mana Rack and play devils advocate !!!

I am SURE that would be a sell out issue, saying that there's never many copies of Hifi + left in WH Smiths...

naheed...

Posted on: 08 December 2000 by Andrew Randle
Jason,

Glad to hear that HiFi+ is improving. The mag is already very classy. Great photography and well formed reviews (NBL review was excellent, so was the interview with JV).

The only thing is, it needs more quantity, i.e. you guys need to play with more toys.

Ideally, we could do with fixed release dates although I appreciate that doing so would be a massive gamble.

A very cool website too.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

Posted on: 12 December 2000 by MarkEJ
quote:
(from Neil)…where the Naim CDS2 and the Mark Levinson integrated CD player were reviewed. Both were reviewed by adherents to each companies products and not surprisingly got rave reviews.

IIRC, both these reviews were written by Chris Thomas. Would have been a bit pointless to swap... confused

Best;

Mark

(I still don't like this
software very much)

Posted on: 12 December 2000 by Dev B
quote:

I am always surprised when the Levinson stuff is roundly dissed here, **some** of their gear is IMHO very good, unfortunately it needs some skill in finding the good stuff and partnering and setup, same as Naim really, hands up if you have never had a bad Naim dem .... thought so!

This is what I feel too. At the shows I have been to I feel Path Premier consistly produce a good sound. Even Jawed (Mr Flat Earth) agrees. I also like the ergonomics of their gear.

Jason, if I may be so bold, what ML pieces have you heard and how does it compare to Naim equivalents? i.e do you think a No 39, 380s and 335 combo is worse/better/different to a CDS2/52/2x135 setup.

cheers

Dev

Posted on: 12 December 2000 by Dev B
In all the discussion on the merits of Quadraspire, Mana and reently Hutter, don't forget about projekt - I think it's the best looking of the lot, it's good value fo money and sounds pretty good too.

Dev
(who added that even though I find standchat boring)