No doubt by now other forum members have had a chance to listen to the much-vaunted SACD format. I had my first experience with it a couple weeks back, and I just had to write that I found myself underwhelmed. Now granted I did not listen to TOP OF THE LINE SACD players; rather, I listened to Sony’s second, still rather pricey effort. While by no means Krell-bad, it was, well, not particularly invigorating.
The rest of the system was the monstrous Levinson integrated and an array of B&W speakers, and that influenced the sound, but it did not obscure the final result: SACD is a let down. Yes, I heard more detail, and perhaps even more “air,” whatever exactly that is, and more audiophile blah, but it was almost like turning the sharpness control up on a TV. Not exactly pleasant and certainly not more realistic. Of course, the young (younger than me!) salesman was ga-ga over the new technology, but as I sat and listed to this hulking, quite expensive rig I couldn’t help thinking that my humble CD 3.5 / Nait 5 / MA 700 PMC system sounds much more satisfying. Add a flat cap of either old or new stripe, and well, the Sony kinda can’t stand on its own. Perhaps to be fair (Ha!) I should listen to an SACD player with my Nait 5, but I don’t want to sully its delicate circuits with those bad electrons.
My final judgment is that SACD is a dead format. It will not catch on, even with the sheep mentality mass-market for two reasons: 1.) The higher costs of the discs, and 2.) the higher cost of the gear. Even if prices come down to the $500 or so price, the players would be put into sub-crap systems so no “benefit” could be realized. There will certainly be some audiophiles who jump at the chance to own such legendary gear, and $25, 60 minute reissues of Stravinsky, and who will cry until there death of the new perfect sound forever, but even most audiophiles won’t buy it. I’m pretty sure most Naim owners won’t.
(BTW – the whole experience was caused by my quest for new speakers to potentially replace my MA’s. I decided to give B&W Nautilus speakers a chance. Yawn! I did finally determine that I am addicted to metal drivers as the Joseph Audio speakers so wonderfully pointed out. I have more MA’s to hear, too. So, well, I’m addicted to speed. And metal is the speediest of them all!)
Posted on: 26 October 2000 by Laxton
I also did an audition on the sony's sacd player a few months back. In the system was the top of the line sony scd1/PS power plant top model/conrad johnson amps/stella speakers. I was really shocked at the kind of sound the system was producing. It didn't play a damn tune although it excelled in "audiophile" aspects. We were playing a disc by the cincinnati pops orchestra which consists of both sacd tracks and normal cd tracks on the same disc. Ironically, both my friend and i felt that the cd version was miles better. We just couldn't believe it, so we tried the sacd version again. As expected, everything fell apart. I think it's more of a tradeoff between(unrealistic) details and musicality. When we left the place, we can't help but wonder what is this craze about.
Laxton
Posted on: 26 October 2000 by Rico
Chaps
I have not followed the tech discussions of the merits of SACD in the comix, nor that of the DVD audio and related formats. A friend, who has purchased an top, or near-to-top Sony SACD machine, raved about the format. My equal ravings about the CDSII (as a vinyl replacement in most cases) has piqued his interest enough to explore the CDSII. He explained to me the advantages of SACD as a music archival format for the master tapes that are decaying as we speak, and that this was the basis for the design/development of the format... and that it's a bonus to have this released for public consumption. Sounds logical to me!
Now to play devil's advocate, I understand that those who've listened to this format thus far have been distinctly underwhelmed; but is it not possible that SACD could indeed sound rather good in subsequent years, with better (read: Naim) execution of the players/mastering? errr sort of like the way CD took years and meticulous engineering to finally sound on a par/better than/almost as good as ** vinyl.
Or is the explanation horseshit, SACD is the devil's work, our earth is still flat, and my contention just the musings of someone whose glass is always half full?
Interested in your thoughts.
** = depending on your point of view
Rico - musichead
Posted on: 26 October 2000 by Todd A
I generally reject the notion that new digital formats will become significantly better as time goes on for the simple reason that digital recording techniques have been around for over 20 years, and playback for about 20 years. Sony and Philips have enormous experience in this realm, and Sony have their remasterings to prove they know there stuff, so they should be able to get it right from Day 1. The current environment is not at all like the launch of CD.
That written, there may be minor improvements in sound, but not significant changes. Perhaps, they (Sony and Philips) could argue that the limiting factor is ancillary gear that cannot deal with the new format properly, so all those electronics and speaker manufacturers will have to back to the drawing board. Speakers perhaps, but plenty of pre-amps and amps can handle the entire frequency range captured on SACD. I think it's just not a viable format. As proof, over a year and how many releases are there?
Posted on: 26 October 2000 by Greg Beatty
...heard a SACD player through a Naim system?
I mean, many on this forum would not get along with a CDSII through Levinson and B&Ws...
And those finding SACD less dynamic might be surprised to hear it sitting on a decent stand and through a Naim system.
Just a thought - maybe we're writing it off too quickly? Tho I agree - where or WHERE is the software?
- GregB
Freedom is not in finding the Holy Grail but in stopping the search for it
Posted on: 27 October 2000 by Jonathan Gorse
Now come on chaps - there's a bit of vested interest here isn't there?
I could argue that some of you heavily committed to CD as a format are now faced with the prospect of having to replace a sizeable collection with SACD/DVD-A because though the new players will play the old discs, you know that you aren't necessarily at the leading edge of sound reproduction anymore and that is irritating.
Properly engineered SACD will be better than CD because it carries more musical information on the disk and is thus inherently a more accurate 'sample' of the original. The fact that a Sony SACD isn't better (yet) than a CDS2 is testament to the immaturity of the production know-how not any flaws in the base technology itself. There is the glorious prospect for the analogue die-hards now of leapfrogging that 'abomination' that was conventional CD and moving straight from analogue to a superior digital technology - I only wish I'd held out longer!
Sony seem to be making a complete hash of SACD because as owner of one of the biggest record labels in the world you might have expected them to make a better job of getting software out there - until that happens sadly the format is dead in the water.
My guess is that DVD-A has the best chance of succeeding once the MLP debacle is resolved because it has greater industry weight behind it. The other manufacturers don't want SACD because it is yet another Sony/Philips standard.
I believe that there are a lot of people out there who would be quite keen on trying high resolution audio through their existing home cinema set-ups and this will happen when every midi-system in the land is fitted with DVD-A players provided the record labels support it - and lets face it they've a strong incentive to if we all go out and buy our favourite albums again on a new format.
Those of us who value quality should be praying that either SACD or DVD-A succeeds - if it doesn't the mass market will swing behind compressed internet MP3 and the like - and music lovers like us and companies like Naim will be condemmed to an eternity of audiophile hell.
Conventional CD isn't an option - it's dead already with unit sales down significantly this year.
Jonathan
