Another step nearer tyranny

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Originally posted by 7V:

I don't understand your point here, DLF. Is your argument that MacDonald's, Coca Cola, Tate & Lyle, etc. are killing people?

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Laurie thinks restrictions are evidence of tyrany. He is wrong. I cited an example of a restriction that has existed in societies for thousands of years. It is who decides on the restrictions that matters.

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If this is what you're saying I'd like to make the point that most things, taken in high enough quantities, are poisonous. Drinking 10 litres of water can (and has) killed. Having a Big Mac once a week with a cup of Coke or taking a spoonful of sugar with your tea will not, I suggest, do any harm.

Steve M

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You have given an example of evidence by which we can make an informed decision. This is how Laurie thinks things should work, fair enough. What he fails to grasp is that the adverts by, for example, the Coca Cola Company and McDonalds Corporation promote the image of healthy pretty people having a Coke and a Big Mac. They distort the evidence so we, as a society, aren't making an informed choice. He can't have informed choice and advertising, they are mutually exclusive!

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Originally posted by DLF:
... the adverts by, for example, the Coca Cola Company and McDonalds Corporation promote the image of healthy pretty people having a Coke and a Big Mac. They distort the evidence so we, as a society, aren't making an informed choice. He can't have informed choice and advertising, they are mutually exclusive!

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ALL adverts promote their products in this idealised way. To be informed is to understand this.

Steve M

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Originally posted by 7V:

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Originally posted by DLF:
... the adverts by, for example, the Coca Cola Company and McDonalds Corporation promote the image of healthy pretty people having a Coke and a Big Mac. They distort the evidence so we, as a society, aren't making an informed choice. He can't have informed choice and advertising, they are mutually exclusive!

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ALL adverts promote their products in this idealised way. To be informed is to understand this.

Steve M

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I know what advertising is for Steve. I don't know what your point is though?

What a strange and in places imbecilic thread!

1) The concept of harking back to some ideal age of a healthy or better diet is nonsense.

2) Anyone who can try and make a point here about 'laziness' is presumably the sort of thing who thinks that everyone on Incapacity Benefit could work if they just tried (so many more examples but I mean why bother when you know the ears are closed anyway!).

3) As for the observation along the lines of no-one knowing better than the individual what is best for them. Do explain? How did you come to acquire this amazing skill that coincidentally means you know what is best for everyone else? I mean, if you were really in favour of everyone for themselves you wouldn't be here arguing the point and trying to persuade us of your vision would you?

4) Ultimately this is a problem of education and lifestyle and one simple banning won't change that overnight or at all. It has to be said though that quickening lifestyles and peer pressure are significant factors and so anything that reduces peer pressure can only be a good thing.

Me? I start work at 7:30 am having got up at 6:30 to catch a bus that goes at 7:05. Breakfast is snatched but healthy. Even if I leave work at 4:00 I am sometimes not home until 6. Lunch is 30 minutes in a dark room away from my desk and PC. My partner is pregnant and, despite needing to study 2 hours each night, I need to cook for her and my step-daughter, try and keep the house clean, deal with finances and so on. For the most part we eat well but when you factor in parents evenings, unexpected visitors etc. I sometime eat at 9:30 and go to bed by 10. Not healthy clearly. Please forgive my laziness

Mike

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Originally posted by Mike Hughes:

4) Ultimately this is a problem of education and lifestyle and one simple banning won't change that overnight or at all. It has to be said though that quickening lifestyles and peer pressure are significant factors and so anything that reduces peer pressure can only be a good thing.

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Right Mike, but the proposal is to ban advertising. Advertising is anti-education, it is propaganda it serves to mis-inform. If you ever see an 1950s advert for cigarettes then you will wonder at how the bastards got away with it. Your kids may think the same if they get to see a contemporary add for McDonalds or Coca Cola in twenty years time.

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Why do equate the existence of laws with tyrany? It's who gets to decide the laws which matters.

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It`s censorship that I object to

Why does someone have the right to prevent me from deciding for myself

Advertising is already subject to laws which require advetisments to adhere to strict standards of accuracy

What galls is the notion that someone in Govenment dares to presume the authority to protect me from myself

laurie S

And what seems unlikely is that 'junk food' can be defined sufficiently accurately. 'I know it when I see it' probably won't suffice.

Paul

Seems a little strange that people need to be told that if you eat a load of crap and don't exercise you'll probably get fat.

Dunno what's more scary, that the government think people need to be told, or the thought that they really do need to be told!

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Originally posted by Laurie Saunders:

It`s censorship that I object to

Why does someone have the right to prevent me from deciding for myself

Advertising is already subject to laws which require advetisments to adhere to strict standards of accuracy

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OK, so where are the beer adverts with an alcoholic waking up in the morning having pissed themselves, the obese munching on a burger, the cars stuck in traffic jams, trains with standing room only. They can't lie but they aren't there to help us make an informed choice.

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What galls is the notion that someone in Govenment dares to presume the authority to protect me from myself

laurie S

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In this case they aren't, they are just trying to ensure you are allowed to make a choice based on facts not propaganda.

I can see both sides of this argument, and fundamentally all advertising is specifically designed to make people break the tenth commandment.
40% of McDonald's profits come from Happy Meals®©™. Sickening.

But I don't think that means we should ban it. The companies concerned will find a way of spending their marketing money. The fag companies now give away their product in nightclubs and the third world. Is this really progress?

I work in wine. The rules on alcohol advertising are now so stringent that many companies look for different ways to sell their products. It is not, for example, permissable any more to sell alcohol with any image that shows people enjoying themselves. Perish the thought that it should be enjoyable.

Alcohol is a poison that, if taken in excess, kills and ruins lives. But so is chocolate. However, a little alcohol is actually beneficial. Teetotallers have a lower life expectancy than those who drink moderately. Red wine (specifically) is a positive elixir for life, being the greatest natural source of resveratrol.

The alcohol/wine companies who can no longer depict enjoyment have a real problem (how would you do it?) What they are actually doing is the (to my taste) incredibly annoying "programme sponsorship" nonsense which just extends the ad break ("Hello Moto" anyone?).
Advertisers will find a way. Giving away product, sponsoring programmes and so on could prove to be more irritating than the status quo. And they wouldn't do it unless it works...

If people are given choice, some will make the wrong one. Advertising isn't responsible for that, nor will banning anything change it.

Here's to a great big glass of Sangiovese right now. Salut.

Rod

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Anyone who can try and make a point here about 'laziness' is presumably the sort...

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let's be honest here, if you're overweight then you're either eating too much or not exercising enough. The rest of your post is just making excuses - just as I did when I went through my fat bastard stage, just as everyone who's overweight does. I'm just wayyyy too busy! Bollocks!
Why not ask yourself things like - can I get to work in a different way? (I started riding), can I walk to the shops rather than driving? can I walk up those stairs instead of getting in the lift? Doesn't really take much and it's usually just laziness that stops us.

Just a couple of points...

First, with regard to fruit / veg drinks as opposed to pop / soda / fizzy drinks. Check the label, you will notice that quite a few proudly claim "10% Real Juice" So what is the rest? - sugar, water, artificial flavours, and preservatives. Basically a fizzy drink without the fizz. ( Usually priced higher than the pop as well - or a surcharge on a complete "meal" )

Next try to eat healthy - you better have a fat wallet. Back in the day when I was bodybuilding ( non-competative ) I could walk into a restaurant and order a whole lunch "meal" Burger / Chicken sandwich, French Fries and a drink for LESS than a simple grilled chicken breast ordered a la carte. ( if you could even order it by itself )

Go into a grocery store and its the same, Fruits and Veg are relatively cheap when in season, but when not dig out the wallet. Same with meat. Here in Canada we are still dealing with a single case of mad cow. When this hit, the price of wholesale beef about quartered. It was found that the proceessing plants profits had jumped by more than double, ( partially due to goverment subsidy for the hardship ) but guess what the effect was on the consumer - yup you guessed it Cheap ground beef but all other cuts the same price or even higher. Whan I enquired about this the only answer I was given was that the ground beef was $1.00 a pound for lean. What about the rest of the cow I asked - uncomfortable silence ensued, then another "But Our Lean Ground is only a buck a pound"

Strange thing but all of the sugar / refined carb packaged - just nuke and eat meals are cheap. You can have a whole meal for about the price of a side dish of some veg or fruit for desert.

Don't know where I heard this , but somebody was talking about ( US TV? ) obisity vs economic means. The result was basically, the more money you have the better you eat. The poorest tended to be the most obese and this was put down to cost of eating healty, in both time available and cost of ingredients.

Of course this is a generalization, but from my own experiences over the last 15 years.

Just my $.02 canadain.

regards,

michael

Isn't it time that they stopped us from destroying most of the vitamins by nuking food?

For goodness sake, they should ban microwave ovens. It's long overdue.

Steve M

Also, shouldn't they ban advertising for coffee with caffeine?

Not only is the stuff very bad for the heart (and costs the health service millions) but you don't get laid by drinking Gold Blend either. If that isn't a case of adverts misleading the public, then what is?

Steve M

My concern is that governments rule with a notion that they are the clever ones and their electorate are all stupid.

Thus the former has only utter contempt for the latter.

Somehow I don't think legislating against anything and everything that may harm us if consumed to excess is going to make us any happier or healthier.

It will make the government bigger and more powerful though.

Regards,

Steve.

7v said "Not only is the stuff very bad for the heart (and costs the health service millions)"

Er, there is no evidence that caffeine is bad for your heart. And it certainly doens't cost the NHS millions.

Matthew

"As we moved away from that station my companion woke up. He fixed me with a
wandering glance, kicked his dog viciously, and inquired where he was. Clearly
he was very drunk. 'That's what comes o' bein' a teetotaller,' he observed in
bitter regret. I expressed my suprise that in him I should have met a
blue-ribbon stalwart. 'Ay, but I'm a strong teetotaller,' he said pugnaciously.
'I took the pledge last martinmas, and I havena touched a drop o' whisky
sinsyne. N o even at Hogmanay, though I was sair temptit.' He swung his heels up
on the seat, and burrowed a frowsy head into the cushions. 'And that's a' I
get,' he moasned. 'A heid hetter than hell hre, and twae een lookin' different
ways for the Sabbath.' 'What did it ? I asked.
'A drink they ca' brandy. Bein' a
teetotaller I keepit off the whisky, but I was nip-nippin' a' day at this
brandy, and I doubt I'll no be weel for a fortnicht.' His voice died away a
stutter, and sleep once more laid its heavy hand on him."

Taken from "The Thirty-nine Steps" By "John Buchan".

Pish: Of which I'm currently reading, lent to me by the chief to shut me up for
five minutes when I'm not taking tea/coffee/fag breaks at work, which soon will
be taken from ones wages, innit.


Fritz Von Who'sananny ?

N.B. As Liverpuddings are "so fuckin special" let thgem put their hands in their pockets (hurts them most) and pay for the Olympic games, and give shitty old London a break Whack !!!

Big Brother is watching...

"Don't Cry Sister Cry "



M

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Originally posted by matthewr:
7v said "Not only is the stuff very bad for the heart (and costs the health service millions)"

Er, there is no evidence that caffeine is bad for your heart. And it certainly doens't cost the NHS millions.

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Well, it must be bad for something - and therefore be costing the NHS millions. If not, there must be something else that needs its adverts banning.

I suggest that the government appoint a Minister for Advertising, with a back-up department in the civil service. Nothing should be allowed to slip through the net.

Steve M

If you drink too much water you will die (sodium dilution in the bloodstream can have very nasty side effects). Perhaps people should be warned?

The notion that people need advertising to help them make "informed" choices about whether to be an alcoholic or eat too many burgers is patronising and absurd.

-- Ian

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Originally posted by sideshowbob:
If you drink too much water you will die (sodium dilution in the bloodstream can have _very_ nasty side effects). Perhaps people should be warned?

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Ian,

I already tried to warn them on the 2nd page of this thread but would they listen? Would they hell.

Ban it.

Steve M

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In this case they aren't, they are just trying to ensure you are allowed to make a choice based on facts not propaganda

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Of course, anything the government tell us will always be factually correct and could never be described as propoganda, eh?


What about the BSE fiasco. The then government (admittedly Tory) tried to supress the truth.

Oh, I forgot.....Socialist governments have the monopoly when it comes to honesty and integrity, eh?

My response: a big "come off it"....I ain`t convinced

Laurie S

This is how totalitarianism works:

Everybody is COMPELLED to be a participant in the NHS (for their own good of course)

It now follows, that in the interest of the costs incurred by the NHS, the Goverment has total control over your lifestyle, and can dictate, for your own good, what you may or may not eat, drink, or smoke, or even read/hear advertisements about products the government deem are bad for us.

Laurie S

What has not been mentioned in this thread is how education on food has changed. I have observed the change from the sidelines as I used to get involved in preparing handouts for the kids my wife taught in Food Technology nee Home Economics nee Domestic Science

The early worksheets were all about planning and preparing a healthy meal for one of more persons associated with an activity.

Then it moved on to carrying out experiments with different combinations of ingredients to determine the effect of salt or sugar would have on a flour water and whatever mixture.

The lowest point occured when a legitimate class would consist of designing and drawing a pizza.

30 to 15 years years ago a significant proportion of school leavers would have practical experience of preparing food from basic ingredients. They would have control of the sugar, salt, msg content. The food would be made to satisfy a need.

The leavers had some rudimentry practical knowledge of the essental healthy ingredients.

Today food is designed to create a demand.

And why was I helping prepare the handouts - well I had the PC etc and also I was developing word processor software and creating handouts was one of the ways of guerrilla testing the software. I picked up up many a bug at home on the PC.

Derek

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