Where are the "poor" people ?
Posted by: Arye_Gur on 14 October 2000
systems that it makes me green of jealous.
Arn't here any members who don't know if to by a Rotel instead of CD5, An Arcam instead of Nait5,
Rega or Kef instead of Credo ?
Arie
Well, I sure can agree with ya' on this issue!
I'm reading the Naim Hifi corner allmost every day
and many times, I'm also thinking:"damn, where do
these guys get the money for all this !?!"
Since most of the members are using the more/most
expensive Naim stuff.
But Arie, I can assure you. Even with a "small" wallet you can have a wonderful,musical system.
I own an old Nait-2 (bought s/h),a Naim-CD3.5
CD-player and Monitor Audio Studio-2 speakers on Target stands. cables by naim.
I'm enjoying it everyday. I had about 12 different
amps, 15 (!) pair of speakers and about 11 CD-players over the last 12 years. Many setups costed me much more then what I have now.
But to me the Naim setup is the most musical one!
So, if you can, try to get your hand on some secondhand Naim gear. (like a nait, to start)
Greetings from Holland,
Alco.undefined
I own now a Naim system - an expensive one then yours but I don't read here memebers like you.
I owned a Nait2 and this is a great amp. I think
that Naim should stil continue manufacturing this amp as an entry level amp.
Arie
quote:
Arn't here any members who don't know if to by a Rotel instead of CD5, An Arcam instead of Nait5, Rega or Kef instead of Credo ?
Dude, I spent 16 years doing exactly that, although with equipment far less costly. Now I'm faced with the same dilemma, only it's "52 or XPS", "135's or SBL's" or "where do I stop" or "I should get out more". Poor? Black box acquisition keeps all of us poor - it's all relative. Most important thing is not to lose sight of the music.
I'd be just as happy listening to CD3/Nait2/Kytes; I just don't have to.
Rico - musichead
paul duerden
Don
You could consider me as being on the 2nd rung of the ladder... having an Mimik/42.5/110/Kan IIs.
Two factors are related to why I don't yet have individual items >£1000. One is age (I'm 27). The other is location (London is so damn expensive - particularly with rent).
Anyway I'm making plans to recify this. One of them is to move back up to York - where there is a "wait-n-see" offer of an excellent job.
Hamish (my dealer at York's Sound Organisation) must be rubbing his hands together.
Andrew
Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;
I too become jealous of the people on this conference. The first Naim system I ever heard was at Joe Petrik's house. It was a 32.5 with 72 boards (or was it a 72??? sorry Joe) with a 250 feeding into Saras. It totally blew my mind. Unfortunately, I had already bought an Onkyo receiver and an Onkyo 6 disc CD changer feeding into Kef Coda 7 speakers. Of course I thought that my system was amazing until I heard Joe's system. But for the money I paid, I really couldn't have done any better - believe me, I did plenty of research! Since then, I've only been able to afford upgrading the Kef Coda 7 speakers to Kef Q15 and buying a more expensive interconnect. Mind you these were within my budget. I'm a student (and will be for many more years to come) so I have other expenses.
Of course one day I do want Naim equipment, in fact I've been salivating over a Nait5, but I can only spend that kind of money when I have it. If I have to eliminate some non-essential expenditures in order to buy a Naim system then so be it, but for the time being, school is an essential. But it's all relative. Believe me, I'm very happy with my system and people who are not audiophiles are impressed too. I know there's better but I can't afford it so I make due with what I have.
But you'll be surprised. The people on the conference, especially the regulars, are very knowledgeable about audio in general. If you give them an amount of money your willing to spend, they will provide you with a few options and instruct you to listen for yourself to make the ultimate decision. Don't ever think that these guys are snobs or that they can't recommend less costly hifi gear. A lot of them have been through the upgrade ladder and still keep up with the latest gear. I remember when the Rega Planet first came out, the original conference had many threads devoted to whether or not the Rega Planet was a good buy. So even though we can't afford the CDSII, we can ask these audiophiles to recommend an affordable CD player that will make us happy.
SYSTEM1 (Home)
CD3.5 + hi-cap
Musical Fidelity XP100 Pre
Muscial Fidelity 4x XA200 power
Celestion A3's
Chord solid 2. CD to Pre
Cabletalk Reference 2 between the amps
QED silver profile speaker cable
Russ Andrews HiPower powercords on everything
Russ Andrews distribution block
Russ Andrews super-purifier
(yeah - I have a mains problem..)
SYSTEM 2(at my girlfriends)
Sony CDPXE300
Musical Fidelity XA1
Musical Fidelity 2x XA50 power
Kef Q35's
Van den Hul D102 MKII x2
Chord Romour 2 speaker cable
My system sounds great. When I am at home I live in front of it.
As a reult of the upgrades to mine - the 'cast off's' - I can now listen to music without wincing at my girlfriend's place. I am always amazed at how (even with a relatively poxy source) my girlfriends system sounds really good - despite it being about a tenth the cost of mine. OK - two years ago it was mine! I can spend a long time sitting in front of those rather musical KEF's. And either I'm going to get her a better CD player for her birthday OR give her the 3.5 BECAUSE ...
...my system sounds great. But I'm going to throw all available funds for the next few months into a CDSII budget. Because I've heard one.
I used to be poor. I am not now. Eventaully I will have three NAP500's and some DBL's (or similar.)
OK - I'm mad. But I firmly believe that the only purpose of the human race is to create things of beauty. Forget all this stuff about making sure everyone has enough to eat. And music, probably due to it being the most abstract form of art, is the pinacle. So - I have no qualms about poor people. The only thing that will slow down buying more hi-fi in order to better appreciate the best of humanity is going to be buying more music and going to concerts.
Poor people ? I don't meet them anymore.
All these high-end nutters just make me think I'm not completely ga-ga, or at least in good company.
It's a least a fairly pleasant form of insanity...
You bring up a point I have been struggling with for the last couple of years. That is that I have not experienced more MUSICAL satisfaction as my system has gotten demonstrably better. It is also why I am in the process of sorting out my system--going back to an LP12 (even though my Roxy is "better"), going from a 82/Supercap to 72/Hicap, etc.
It has very little to do with money--I could afford everything I have bought, I just don't find that it gives me more musical satisfaction--in fact, just the opposite. I think Arie hit the nail on the head of what I was trying to say in the thread "Back to Basics !"
Cheers,
Bob
Who may be downgrading but is enjoying everything a LOT more !
Maybe when I have spent all my money on green boxes I can have your sense of perspective and ask myself whether it was all worth it. Then downgrade.
But I'm planning on havings lots of fun building up to being able to have that sense of perspective.
I imagine you did too ?
I'm just starting out on this insane ride. Let me have my fun !
Jonathan
As a single parent with 5 teenagers the budget didn't allow for much. In fact my first target was a Nait 1 or 2--which I never found.
Some things in life are more powerful motivators than money, one of those for me is music. I found that with fine tuning of my priorities, and a clearer focus on how I create value for others in society, I started to enjoy substantially greater rewards.
If your experience with Naim triggers feelings of scarcity than that is most likely the experience and the result you will attract. Conversely, if you let the beauty and the abundance flow, feelings that for me are triggered in listening to good music, meaningfully reproduced, then that is what you are likely to attract.
Make life richer for all those you meet and some of it is likely to rub off. Life is a place of contribution before it is a place of reward
I think it is what goes in this forum when most of the members own expensive Naim equipment and
every one is busy telling the others how good Naim systems are. I own Naim too, and I think it is a great system too, but I'm sure that there are "some" people who don't think so and I wish to hear them although I think too Naim is great.
I don't agree (I think Pierre claimed it ) that this is a Naim site so only people who want to talk "Naim" are allowed to speak here. I think (hope) that the people in Naim are wiser then that and I think that maybe there are some different ways to pronounce music via a stereo system and maybe there are people who can talk about it and argue Naim "lovers".
And if I'm wrong - someone can "block" me out of this site anytime he wants - but in this case, I will not be sorry if it happens (and I'll continue to use Naim equipment).
Arie
quote:
The first Naim system I ever heard was at Joe Petrik's house ... I'm a student ... I've been salivating over a Nait5, but I can only spend that kind of money when I have it.
Arun.
While visiting the FEP master, you obviously didn't listen carefully to his lecture on how to buy an LP12/32.5/250/Sara rig while in school. There is a very tasty diet that is part of a 7-step system.
quote:
if you let the beauty and the abundance flow, feelings that for me are triggered in listening to good music, meaningfully reproduced, then that is what you are likely to attract ... life is a place of contribution before it is a place of reward
"Mr. T"
Speaking of Joe Petrik. I just got a phone call from him a few minutes ago and he was weeping uncontrollably after having read your tender words above. You must be reading a lot of that philosophy stuff that Catch keeps telling us about.
Vuk.
Kindly remember one thing tough.
(imho)there is only one thing money can not buy and that is poverty. With Naim, I think, There is a direct correlation between price and performance........This stuff lasts forever.
Ze ah gazoont,
Marc Newman
[This message was edited by Marc Newman on MONDAY 16 October 2000 at 04:25.]
quote:
With Naim, I think, There is a direct correlation between price and performance...
This is the most common idea here and I rest my case.
I wonder if there is someone here who thinks something else.
Arie
quote:
Most of the members here are owning such expensive
systems that it makes me green of jealous.
I try to be as shrewd as possible when it comes to parting with money. There are very few new components in my system, and I am more than happy to use very old equipment. I try to buy at the point when the equipment has pretty much stopped depreciating, so I will not incur a bad financial hit if I later choose to sell up.
My amplifier and speakers are both good examples - I run a 32-5 / Hicap / 135s which all date from 1987, and a pair of Linn Kan IIs. The amps cost me 1800 quid, and I have paid out to update the 32-5 with 72 boards, bought a black SNAIC, and had everything re-capped. Even with this additional cost, I could easily get back pretty much what I paid as they are such fine examples - I would stand to either break even or loose less than 100 quid should I sell. My speakers date from 1993, I bought them earlier this year for 200 quid, and I already had a pair of stands that had effectively cost me 25 quid - by waiting for a pair in the right condition and finish, and a bit of haggling, I would unquestionably make on the deal if I were to sell.
The above are effectively free - ok the money tied up in the equipment is not earning interest, but it is not loosing much value either. I did buy my source components new, this is very out of character for me, as simply carrying a component outside the shop depreciates it by about 30% - I just really wanted a P9, and they hardly ever come up second hand. The same goes for my Mana amp rack, they just never turn up second hand, and buying before the recent price rise saved me over 100 quid. I am not in anyway discouraging people from buying new, I need the quality companies such as Naim to stay in business, so I can buy the stuff a few years down the track when someone else has run it in and depreciated it for me!
Tony.
I bought all my system LP12, Cdi,Nait3, IBL
as used components (only the flatcap I bought as a new) but it is symply because I can't afford buying new Naim components.
Arie
You are a young man so you have loads of time ahead of you and the second hand route is very effective and could almost be regarded as a form of investment because you can nearly always resell at the same price as what you bought.
Each upgrade will make the music better and you have lots to look forward to.
Stick with it.
Mick
quote:
The above are effectively free .......it is not loosing much value....
This is the kind of reasoning that got most Western nations (Canada in particular) into such a horrendous debt problem. I'm a confirmed believer in the value of used equipment, especially Naim. However, even if the purchase price is a bargain and the gear holds its value, you still have to pay for it initially, which means you don't have the money to spend on something else (i.e., shoes for your kids and such like. Which I think was Arie's point.
Arie,
quote:
to convince the conviced people
In English, "preaching to the choir (or the converted)"
John Schmidt
"95% of everything is crud" - Theodore Sturgeon
quote:
This is the kind of reasoning that got most Western nations (Canada in particular) into such a horrendous debt problem.
Which keeps the online price for CDs cheap from AB Sound - it works for me!
Tony.
First of all, it's nice to see more Canadians contributing to the forum. I used to think that the Canadian audioland revolved around London, Ontario at Joe or Vuk's apartment! BTW, I've never understood politics, especially in Canada, nor do I want to so that's all I'm going to say about that.
Vuk, I never thought I would see the day that you bought a Mana rack. Hell, I was going to put in an order for one of those X-type racks that you designed, but now I may wait on that. I have heard the Joe Petrik audio salespitch, but I was never one of those people who believe in the "quick" diet program 
Arie, I think for most of the people on this conference, music takes them away from this thing we call life (for me it's an escape from these textbooks). It's an escape. We buy what we can afford, but we also buy what we like. Look at the FEP giants who changed from an LP12 to a P9 (Joe and Tony). They did it because they liked the sound from the P9 more, but not everyone changed. I recently heard a very expensive Krell system fed through Martin Logan Prodigy speakers. The Krell had a huge soundstage and actually sounded nice, but I still prefer the Naim sound. On the other hand, I loved the new Martin Logans even though I didn't enjoy other Logans I have heard. The new Prodigy speakers just sounded great, I think Mike Hanson also had that feeling. Some people may not like those particular speakers at all, and may recommend a Naim speaker, but in the end it's us who must make the final decision. Mike Hanson is another great contributor to this forum because he doesn't really prefer Naim speakers but yet he gets bombarded by people telling him that he should upgrade his Albions to SBLs etc. You won't hear from many people on this conference who don't like Naim equipment, otherwise they wouldn't really enjoy this forum would they. Look at Frank Abela who owns a Chord amp and preamp but yet still offers advice on Naim purchases. We do have diversity and different opinions, don't worry about that. It actually makes for a better conference. We really do welcome you and other newbies to this conference and hope you post more often. You've got me posting more often, so at least be satisfied that you brought one more "poor" person out of lurking for fear that his system just didn't measure up 
[This message was edited by Arun Mehan on MONDAY 16 October 2000 at 18:34.]
quote:
I used to think that the Canadian audioland revolved around London, Ontario at Joe or Vuk's apartment
Never met Joe or Vuk, but I did spend just over ten years of my life (1975-1986) in the London area and purchased my used Naim gear from a small shop that existed for a few years in Sarnia.
As much as I enjoyed my years in London, the audio scene there is pretty tame compared to what you can find in Montreal.
John Schmidt
"95% of everything is crud" - Theodore Sturgeon
quote:
I used to think that the Canadian audioland revolved around London, Ontario at Joe or Vuk's apartment!
What do you mean by "used to think?" It's truer now than ever before, even though Joe's not here anymore.
What a burden it is to have to maintain the reference source for an entire country.
Vuk.
quote:
What a burden it is to have to maintain the reference source for an entire country.
Dr Vuksanovic for the 'oh brother do I have a load to carry' snappy. Well done, P.H.Dee!
Rico - musichead