Who's got an LCD TV?

Harry,

I've got a Phillips 30PF9975, a 30" LCD TV.

Excellent picture quality, especially with Philips' proprietory Pixel Plus technology.

The best results can be had with DVD though. I bought that cheap £150 Pioneer DVD player that got 5 stars in What Hifi recently, and use component leads to connect it to the TV. It's meant to be the best (picture) quality connection below DVI/HDMI but it only works on my TV in progressive scan mode. Personally, though, I think the results are outstanding.

The TV I think has been discontinued in favour of the 32PF9986 which undoubtedly is better and, I think, has a DVI connection.

Hope that helps.

Regards,

JonR

...and don't forget, a 30inch LCD is ALMOST the same viewable area of a 32inch widescreen CRT, due to the 19th century evacuated glass envelope technology employed.

Besides from a magnetron in a microwave, the only other thermionic valve in major use in the home today is the CRT in your telly...

Plasmas IME aren't as good as LCD either, and more expensive. The current 50inch Pioneer plasma, for example, looks excellent from a few feet, but up close you can see loads of motion blur and digital artefacts. Whether that's from the 100hz processing (WHY!? - plasma is supposed to be flicker free) or what, I don't know...

I'd go for LCD if I was in the market...

__________________________
Don't wanna be cremated or buried in a grave
Just dump me in a plastic bag and leave me on the pavement
A tribute to your modern world, your great society
I'm just another victim of your highrise fantasy!

...and the other problem with plasma is that it is far more susceptible to 'burn-in' than LCD.

As long as you looking for a screen size no larger than 32", look no further than LCD.

JR

Excuse me butting in and my ignorance, but how much are LCD Tv's? and what sizes do they come in?

Anything from 15" up to 32", and in fact some of the smaller screen sizes are available in 4:3 aspect as well as 16:9. Prices atart from about £400 for a half-decent 15" but the latest Philips I mentioned above retails for £3,000.

Things being what they are, though, I should imagine a quick google will find you a lower price for it somewhere around.

Larger size LCD screens can be anything from 26", 27" then it jumps to 30" then 32". Anything larger than this and, IMO, you are in plasma territory.

Hope that answers your query.

Regards,

JonR

Thank you folks. We've got a Phirrips 32" flat CRT Jon, which while tasty isn't the last word in resolution or contrast, despite all its picture enhancing features. I guess a lot of it is to do with the fact I spend all day working on a very good, high resolution 21" LCD monitor.

The flat screen gold fish bowl is used almost exclusively for watching DVDs, as will be the new telly. It's not part of an AV system - we will continue to keep the HI Fi seperate from the telly. In addition to the huge space it takes up, I believe it is casting a sonic shadow on one side of the room. Noticable before but now more of a potential problem because the CDX2 seem to be throwing out a much wider sound stage. (BTW it sounds crap today - oh the joys of burn in!)The telly is 2/3 up the room on a side wall at 45 degrees - the only place it can go. I don't want to place it between the speakers because apart from any potential affects on sound, it would be about 20' away from the sofa. Moving the speakers closer together won't work either. So parking a flat telly on the long wall at the usual angle but with about 2.5 feet less depth seems logical and beneficial (and we'll get a nice new toy ).

My hands are staying out of my pockets for now. Probably best to wait until the New Year. But I like to plan in advance and do my homework.

Thanks again.

Cheers

Harry

Harry,

Not sure what you mean by 'sonic shadow' but if you are referring to the effect on the sound that may be caused by the proximity of your TV to your speakers, be aware that any differences you hear could also be down to whether your speakers are magnetically shielded. My new Spendor's come magnetically shielded as standard which I believe means I can put them close to my TV (and may well do so in the near future) without any unexpected effects. IIRC you have Ruark speakers - might be worth checking whether they are shielded as well if you don't know already, and if not whether they can be 'upgraded'.

Rather like the whole CD/Vinyl/whatever format debate, I must say it's very easy to get whipped up into a frenzy by the latest format technology. Good ol'-fashioned CRT might be on the wane but IMO LCD (and Plasma) has a way to go before it can truly be said to surpass the best that CRT has to offer for good, quality, pin-sharp images.

As I shared elsewhere last night, my humble Rega Planar 3 is proving more than adequate consolation for the lack of a CDX2. Likewise you should continue to keep the pennies safely locked away - your CRT has a lot of life left in it yet

Regards,

JonR

LCD's until very recently have not managed sideways movement very well, so always check to see this type of movement before judging. Progressive scan is a must.
Larger LCD's are very new and prices are high, but the effect of the bigger sizes is having a swipe at plasma, and now plasma prices are dropping by the week**. Don't forget that by gaining all that extra floor space, you will usually be able to accommodate a larger screen size, so don't just assume you should get a 32". Hitachi do a 36 or 38" plasma (can't remember which) which is the best screen I have ever seen.

** Richer Sounds currently doing a 32" Hitachi plasma at £999.99, and a daewoo 42" plasma at £1299. You wouldn't want the Daewoo - but you get the drift.

Until they come in at similar prices they shall not enter the Sanders household. I'll stick with the 32" w/s crt(Thompson) for now. I have this feeling that the newer Plasma/LCD TVs probably cost pence to make in some 3rd world sweatshop, but of course the companies have to get their "development" costs back. The sets' cost will then plummet (ha ha) and we will be able to buy them for a quid or two. A bit like CD and vinyl eh?

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Don't forget that by gaining all that extra floor space, you will usually be able to accommodate a larger screen size

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Apart from the scaffolding to hold it up.

Howard

Mmmmm, interesting topic this...

At Reeves Towers we currently enjoy terrestial T.V on a conventional set whilst the home cinema bit is centred around a Panny 37" Plasma which is about 6 months old. The conventional set is 6-7 years old and has a better picture. In fact, some of my friends with the latest Panasonic boxes are convinced they were "turned" from an LCD or Plasma because of the performance still available from conventional t.v.'s. I also understand that Plasmas,(and LCDs?), require a digital feed to receive terrestial pictures properly.This is something to watch out for too - one of my pals bought the same Plasma as I did and linked up his Sky box but he gets problems with "delay". According to the dealer, it's a brand compatibility issue between the Plasma and the digi feed box - anyone any comments on this?

Lastly, I popped into the local Sony shop at the weekend and some of their stores are offering their latest WEGA engined 42" Plasma at £3999 including stand and rewritable DVD. To make the deal even sweeter they're offering 2 year's interest free credit with no deposit.I spent half an hour there and I have to say it was a knockout bit of kit and performed very favourably against the LCD's I also saw.This latest Sony Plasma has a 60,000 MTBF figure which is a lot of viewing!Bear in mind they have to be stored upright if moving though...

Again, thanks to you all for the input. I'm reading with interest and much obliged.

I've stayed in a couple of Hotels with bloddy great Plasmas in the rooms and have never been at all impressed with their rather muddy, shuddery, streaky picture quality. Having said that, I have seen some in shops more recently looking very good, but you really need to sit and watch for a few hours don't you? I saw some LDDs in Bath yesterday looking very crisp and clear with DVDs but in my local TV shop today a 32" Sony looked piss poor on analogue TV - sounds like exactly what you described jlfrs.

Couple of points for Jon: Planar 3? Snap! Mines got RB100 + RB200 but I can't remember which is the arm and which is the cartridge! Anywey, got em! My first 'proper' component, bought in 1980 and I will treasure it always.



That's a quick low res snap of the relative position of TV to speakers (excuse the mess). A number of things are obvious. We need good floor length curtains (in progress). The left speaker is placed in a bass boosting position whilst the right one isn't. But, as I hope is obvious, because the telly juts in from the right, I can't do anything until it is moved further back against the right hand wall - except that it's already backed right into the wall - thus the idea of going flat. When that's sorted and when the back wall is finished off nicely, I'll be able to place the speakers equidistant from the corners without having one of them hidden behind the TV. But as it stands, I still believe the telly is cutting into the sound field from the right speaker. This could all be in my head of course, where perception is fact and the laws of physics don't apply! It won't be helped by the left speaker being in a nice output enhancing position either.

Cheers

Harry

Went from a 28" Sony crt to a 42" Panasonic Plasma.... and gained 6 square feet of floor space in the corner where it has to be, & thats over a 28" screen, simply because the thickness of the screen. (Should that be thinness?) Initiallty appeared to be a bit of 'big' picture for the room, but now completely accepted. It does show up the differences between good / poor signals - dvd, terestial etc, but we wont be going back to crt, thats for certain.
Viewing from any angle in the room is fine, but with this size screen, you cannot sit too close, say 2.5m min, or yes, you will see the pixells, but you dont go for one this size if you need to sit that close?
One problem with comparing sets in shops is the quality of the signal fed to them... they generally have one source going through a 'splitter - amplifier' feeding a good many sets, that may or may not do the signal any good, and this shows up very, very clearly on flat screens....

Thanks Steve.

The problem with the right speaker turned out to be an amp fault after going bonkers on it last night. Still a slight bias to the left - nothing a nice flat screen won't fix in due course I think.

Cheers

Harry

Harry,

I thought I was the one with space problem! Unless your picture is deceptive your living room looks even more confined than mine (some achievement that would be)!

In those circumstances a flat-screen will certainly help, though in my case, because my house is soooo small that my living room is combined with the 'hallway' and the stairs, my TV currently sits under the staircase so right now it doesn't make much difference to me whether it's CRT or not - purely from the POV of space considerations.

I'm guessing as well that the white wire leading to the right from your speakers is the cable - if so is your system the same side of the room as the TV?

Regards,

JonR

I too have been looking at plasmas and LCDs for the same reason - to get an ideal room layout to overcome room acoustic issues

Our current Loewe vitros 32" crt is far superior to the £3000 Hitachi 42" (according to What Plasmas a top performer), but the £4000 37" Loewe spheros was about on par at a local Lin Naim emporium. The Panasonc PE30 also gets excellent write up but looked rather pixelly to me at our local Linda Barker endorsed store. The Pioneer 434 43" plasma gets most reveiwers top marks and can be found for £3300 on the net.

The problem is that all the talk of screen longevity problems and falling prices is putting me off from biting the bullet

Harry, wouldn't you rather spend your money on those curtains?!

Anyway, a friend of mine is a purchaser for an A brand LCD screens. He told me that plasma is definitely on it's return; too expensive and too much burn in problems.

Just the other day I bought a copy of Hifi Test (design edition), a German magazine. It reviewed a.o. a Philps LCD screen with Ambilight. Anybody familiair with this? It's great, the screen has lights on the back that project colors on the wall that fit the program that's on. It looks really cool. I have seen such an LCD last week without this effect and the picture quality was very good. I will however wait just some time, as I still get the feeling with all these screens that there is something wrong. Maybe it's the same as with the first digital cd's in comparison to analog lp's. I cannot exactly describe it, but I find watching my regular tv more relaxing. And that saves me a lot of bucks!

Regards, Bas

LOL Bas! I knew someone was gonna say that. Decoration and curtains are in hand.

Jon - yes, system is in an understairs cupboard to the right of the speakers. And yes the telly comes off the same ring as the Hi Fi. To get over this in the short term I unplug it when listening, but a spur is coming. We need one anyway, so the potential sonic gains will be a bonus.

The room ain't all that small really but the intrusion of the goggle box is significant. For all the telly we watch we might as well not bother - but we like our DVDs.

Thanks for feedback all.

Cheers

Harry

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Originally posted by BigH47:

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Don't forget that by gaining all that extra floor space, you will usually be able to accommodate a larger screen size

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Apart from the scaffolding to hold it up.

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No scaffolding required - the wall brackets are amazingly rigid and more than capable of supporting said devices.

Mike

From what I have seen (LCD excluded at this point) good old fashioned crt (Loewe Aconda) spanks plasma. Having said that plasma with appropriate enhancements is getting much closer in terms of picture quality.

Talking to my dealer friend, the uptake for LCD's is really taking off. He also expects the LCD offerings for larger sized screens to equal the performance of plasmas in the next year or so.

Mike

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No scaffolding required - the wall brackets are amazingly rigid and more than capable of supporting said devices.

True but you'll need bracing if fitting onto a stud wall. The aforementioned 37" Panny of mine may be lighter than most CRT's but it's still 40Kg!

One interesting piece of advice I received came from the lads who set the beast up which was to situate it away from windows - not because of reflections but because of theft. They supply a lot of LCDs and Plasmas for insurance claims: the bigger they are, the more visible they are and being smaller and lighter are easier to cart off. I went one better and moved to a second floor flat....

One thing I forgot to check in the shop was the viewing angle for LCD sets. I assume they can be viewed at 45 degrees?

Cheers

Harry