The look of the "5" seria
Posted by: Arye_Gur on 16 December 2000
I can tell all of you that the new look has a much higher WAF (wife acceptance factor) than the old style, and that does count for something.
Naim has to update the look of the hardware to keep up with cosmetic trends, at least somewhat. And they can't just keep on cranking out the same old gear; after all, where do "classic" designs come from? They only come from discontinued lines and designs.
Ultimately, it's the sound that matters, and the 5 series as a whole sounds better than the gear it replaces. So who really cares about the way it looks?
quote:
The build quality also impresses me more, as does the lack of ringing associated with old cases
Perhaps the ringing was there for a purpose ?
Allan
Regards, Bas
I think this post shows that the new look is a great success - and if someone in Naim follows this post they are pleased now.
I thought the new look make the "naimists" who are the majority in this forum angry (I guess you think so too).
At the moment, 1352 members entered this post - only 60 voted. The vote is a very simple act - so I guess 1000 members or so (some entered
more than once and I don't know how the system counts them) DON'T care about the new look.
Those who vote, 50% (at the moment) thinking that the new look is better than the older/good/stunning.
So to my opinion the new look is a success if we take this post as it counts.
How can people think the new look is a good one with its logo - that is a great mystery for me...
Arie
quote:
The old buttons look like something that's been pulled from a piece of test equipment, rather than an integral part of the product.
Yes, they give an impression of uncompromising quality, looks be damned, which has a certain style – although I absolutely apreciate your view too. I also rather liked the little chrome toggle switches from 32/62 days for the same(ish) reasons. I think the feel of a switch is also important, and althought the CD5 buttons are quite tactile, they don't have the precision of the square buttons used in the 3-series, and (I assume) also in 52, 82, 102, CDX, etc.
The 5-series is not so obviously hand-built, IMHO. This is either a plus or a minus, depending on your viewpoint. The case implies hugely better quality, but seems relatively quite complicated, and it doesn't have the elegant simplicity of the full-height aluminium sleeve / steel drawer casework. I always thought this was particularly brilliant because it allowed the use of self-tapping screws, which were needed anyway to hold the rubber feet on. This was great thinking, to my mind.
Best;
Mark
(I still don't like this
software very much)
I agree with your view that the 5 series does not look so hand-built.
I love the clever design of all of the older kit, and believe Naim acheived an excellent result from some simple (though very well implemented) engineering.
The cases for the slimline components are, at the end of the day, formed, painted pieces of alloy, with some labels stuck onto them. The end result achieves a solid, accessible, serviceable and good looking result that is greater than the sum of the basic starting components.
The previous switches are positive, reliable and not entirely unattractive, but the look of the new 5 series seems much more integrated.
I wonder whether, as an engineer, I find different aspects of the old and new designs appealing to those with other interests. I tend to appreciate what must be significant amounts of hard work and investment that goes into the end result of a Naim product.
I think many engineers can find clever, well implemented design appealing just for it's own sake, irrespective of whether the final aesthetics are to our taste. In regard to the 5 series I like both aspects of it's design and so it's doubly appealing to me as a result - factor in sound quality and I think it's a winner!
I also believe that many of the opinions expressed here are from those already familiar with Naim, it's products and it's previous styling. I feel certain that if one surveyed members of the general population, who were not already 'converts' then the views expressed would be quite different, IMHO.
The final measure of all of this will be in the sales figures, and it would appear that the signs are looking good so far.
Andy.
Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com
The evolution of casework for hi-fi electronics is fairly strange, in that in days of yore, a lot of amps (and tuners, etc.) seemed to be designed to be inserted in the user's own casework, which was frequently some sort of large cabinet, often with the turntable (bought without plinth) fitted in the top surface, and the electronics let into the front. In John Crabbes's book "HiFi in the Home" (I kid you not – I have a 1972 copy...) there is a whole page showing photographs of pre-manufactured cabinets, mostly made by Hamptstead High Fidelity, with blank tops and fronts specifically for this purpose. In order to facilitate fitting, the electronics often had thin, clangy steel cases with a heavy flanged front plate capable of supporting the whole weight in a similar fashion to the rack-mount cases still popular in both pro-audio and datacomms markets today. You could often buy veneered sleeves for your amps, etc., if you just going to put it on a shelf, but I suspect people generally didn't because of the extra cost.
Consequently, "good" stuff had to look as if the only important bit was the front panel, (with lots of knobs) and 25 years on a surprising number of manufacturers still have a flanged front plate, with thin enamelled steel for the rest of the box – withness Roksan Caspian, MusFid A3, etc.
When Naim electronics first appeared, they looked very strange initially, with no tone controls or filters, but they seemed to spawn a host of imitators such as Crimson, Nitek, Mission/Cyrus, etc. Suddenly the kudos was with how few knobs you could have, and preamps particularly could get smaller. With outboard PSUs, you didn't even need a power switch. I think Naim were really clever at this point, because everything they made used one of two sizes of case, allowing them to maximise both the consistency of the visuals across the range, and the economies of scale when buying casework.
The tactile qualities of switches, etc. may not seem important, but if you use a high qualtiy component, it will probably always feel good to use. Most customers' first encounter with an amp is in the shop, and if it looks well built, the impression is favourable. After seeing it, the next thing they will do is to press a button or turn a knob, and if the volume pot is rough (for example), they will immediately get a negative message about both the gear and manufacturer, requiring an even more impressive dem for a sale to result. Naturally it's also no good if the thing feels like a Bentley but sounds like a bag 'o shite.
With the 5 series, I think Naim have a acomplished a striking bit of original thinking. I have a CD5, and I'm over the moon with it – completely, with no reservations.
What intrigues me is this:
If Naim had developed the internals for the 5 series and put them in "standard" Naim cases, would fewer sales have resulted? I think we can assume that the sonic differences would have been small, if they existed. The new cases are very clever, and the (probably conderable) development / tooling costs could have been avoided by doing this. I would also be surpised if the material and build costs of the 5 series cases were much less (if at all) than the "standard" Naim case, so logically, can the intention be to expand the user base, on the assumption that a significant number of potential buyers are put off by the Naim look?
No doubt there exists somewhere a Mercedes forum, on which people are having identical discussions about the A-Class...
Best;
Mark
(I still don't like this
software very much)
quote:
I think we can assume that the sonic differences would have been small, if they existed.
I'm not so sure here, from my recent discussions the new cases provide greater mechanical rigidity and do not ring as the old ones can.
The boards are mounted on isolating pillars, and I believe even the connectors are compliantly mounted, amongst other things.
One thing I'm certain of is Naim will have designed all of these elements as a cohesive whole, and therefore I'm sure the case may have a significant effect, sonically.
Only Naim know the answer...
Andy.
Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com
quote:
Relating to Andrew's previous quote of: 'The best way for Naim to go with their casing would be to have acrylic cases (a la DNM) with glass heatsinks. Not for looks, but for sound. Non-metallic casing prevents re-radiation back onto the circuit board.'Naim R & D do extensive research on every part of the products they produce and the interaction of ALL the components in those products. So the best way for Naim to go is to use the vast experience of Roy George and his R & D team. Full Stop.
Full Stop? Don't discount the potential of this forum - and I'm not going to claim any IPR on using Pyrex heatsinks.
I thought you would appreciate the sharing of constructive ideas - particularly if it would lead to more products for you to photograph on Naim's behalf?
Andrew L. Weekes said:
quote:
What about external interference?The acrylic case will also let any stray RF / electromagnetic fields IN to the sensitive low level circuitry, not a recipe for consistent clean sound.
As for glass heatsinks I'm not sure what planet DNM inhabit, but the primary purposes of a heatsink is to cool the devices mounted to it. For this it needs to provide a thermal path to air (normally), i.e. it needs to be a good conductor of heat. Aluminium, Copper etc. will do this well, glass most certainly will not!
It is true that low level EMI would find it easier to enter such circuitry if non-metallic casing is used. However, AC signals will generate EM coupling to external conductive units.
The path loss between the circuit board and the casing is almost 0dB, although , in favour of metallic cases, the cross coupling may be significantly less (due to the electrical dimensions of the casing)... but...
Take the example of a pre-amp, higher voltage AC signals at the output stage that *could* be re-radiated from the casing and back to the input to the MC - generating closed loop *positive* feedback on a low but possibly subjectively noticable scale.
Also, joints made from disimilar materials can re-radiate 3rd harmonic EM - see "On Fluctuations During Nonlinear Scattering of Radio Waves by Metallic Objects" J. Comm. Tech. and Elec. 39 (12). 1995. pp17-18.
BTW, DNM do not use glass heatsinks - only aluminium oxide spacers. Pyrex is a reasonable enough conductor of heat, any deficiencies can be offset by inceasing the exposed surface area.
Just some constructive thoughts, that people may or may not wish to take advantage of. I might, when I get around to it.
Andrew
Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;
Clue: each "knob" is about 80mm across...
Best;
Mark
(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)
cheers
Nigel
Firstly, you did rattle my cage a bit when you said 'The best way for Naim to go..' perhaps if you had worded it 'a possible alternative would be..'?
So I am sorry if you were offended - nothing wrong here with constructive ideas - its just personally I am very very confident in the ability of Naim R and D, who I think should be treated with the respect they deserve.
Secondly, I am not a Photographer!
Seasons Greetings
Geoff
quote:
The're not on the underside of the drawer like the 3.5 are they.
Yes, Nigel. Poo, I thought that would run & run (sigh)
Best;
Mark
(an imperfect
forum environment is
better than none)
I'm not at all averse to the discussion of constructive ideas, indeed I thrive on them, but as an engineer I like my discussions to be based in fact, supported by evidence.
From the information I have available to me the following is true: -
Aluminium has a thermal conductivity of approx 237 W/m.K
Glass has a thermal conductivity of approx 1.3 W/m.K
i.e. glass has a thermal conductivity almost 1/200th that of aluminium.
I don't have figures for Pyrex glass, but I would be stunned if it even came close to aluminium, it's main benefit being resistant to damage from heat.
Andy.
Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com
Properties of Pyrex® Glass a.k.a. Corning 7740
Coefficient of expansion x10-7 33
Working point (104 poise) °C 1220
Softening point (6x107 poise) °C 820
Annealing point (1013 poise) °C 565
Thermal conductivity W/mK at 20°C 1.14
Density g/cm3 2.23
Andy the pedant 
Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com
errr how can I put this.........I think you need a damm good holiday.
Yours in a spirit of care and affection
Mick
Hope you had a good Xmas,
Andy.
Andrew L. Weekes
alweekes@audiophile.com