Do you know where is Naim going to ?

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So I wonder if there are members here who new him and who know the present people in Naim and if Naim will stay "Naim" after Julian Vereker death ?

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Over the past 20 years to my eyes there seems to have been a distinct market shift upwards.

When I first aspired to Naim ownership, what attracted me was that their top amp, the 32 / Snaps / 250 kicked seven kinds of crap out of the really high end systems that were continuously getting reviewed in the magazines, such as Krell and Audio Research. The Naim amp did this at a small fraction of the price - the whole Naim amp combo was about a third of the price of the competing power amp. Naim stayed aggressive with products like the Mk1 Nait, which was not an expensive component at all, but was good enough to get the benefit of using a good source (LP12) with. Naim had real attitude in the eighties.

To my eyes Naim are now a straight competitor with Krell and Audio Research, the prices are the same, the products and ideology are the difference - Naim are still obviously better, but at a considerable purchase price to the customer (sufficient to totally price me out of the 'new hi-fi' game). This to my eyes has nothing whatsoever to do with the untimely death of Julian, the upward trend was visible since the early nineties.

I wish Naim continued luck, and hope their business keeps growing and becoming more successful, though I do definitely miss some of the old attitude. Are Densen the new Naim?

Tony.

PS The above is purely my personal take, I do / did not know any of the personalities within Naim sufficiently to have any facts!

If Julian Vereker was a graet leader to Naim - it describes well your feeling when he ran Naim.
But I wonder if they can continue be so special now.
Now I also wondering if it is not a foolish topic I raised here - time will tell us what will happen to Naim - if 10 years from now we will be in this forum or on some other manufacturer's forum...

Arie

Companies and markets have a lifecycle. Young, fast growing, immaturity, being followed by more mature, more conservative, slower growing middle age, ending up in ultra-conservative, declining old age.

Naim is a middle aged company. The audio-only Hi-Fi market is in late middle age. The AV market is in its youth.

Naim's strategy is entirely consistent with a mature, successful, middle aged company. Companies do occasionally regenerate - the most usual cause of this is making stonking losses where throwing caution to the winds is no longer risky, 'cos you are dying anyway. Occasionally a visionary leader will force regeneration, usually by cutting the company up into smaller bits (e.g. Zeneca being spun out of ICI). Naim might do such a thing if it set up an independent unit/brand to compete in the AV market, but I would bet against this happening.

I think it is likely that Naim as a company and also its customers are nostalgic about the days when both Naim and the Hi-Fi market were young. It would take an extraordinary effort by Naim to recapture its lost youthfulness - and would probably end up looking like a middleaged man in tight fitting jeans.

Nic P
(middleaged and comfortable with it)

I've mentioned this before and I believe that it is appropriate to mention again.

My thoughts are that there should be:

Naim Audio (nA logo)
Naim Video (nV logo)

DVD video is proving to be very popular, so the AV1 and any possible DVD player could go under the nV banner.

I also agree with Tony about Densen's aim to become the new Naim. They produce some excellent components, very much in the same philosophy as Naim.

DNM is the only other company that can compete on musical terms with Naim. Maybe Naim will be radical enough to consider using acrylic casing like DNM? There is definitely something in this "no metal no induced currents" stance.

Here's hoping these ideas will be noted...

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

I'm convinced that Paul S. and the rest of the guys will figure out what Naim will be in the future and how to get there. What counts is that the management of the company aim to be the best Naim in the business - regardless of whether that's hi-fi seperates or home entertainment or a provider of software for MP3 - it's the WAY Naim does it and the WHY they do it that way that counts for much more than the "WHAT". I for one am lookng forward to the journey.

I say so - because I have heard them on a number of occasions. They have one of the most focussed portrayals of PRaT there is.

Densens philosophy? Try this and let me know if it sounds familiar:

"Our main focus is to achieve the best possible "airguitar factor"; .... to create musical experiences so great that you forget everything and focus 100% on the music.

Life is too short for boring music"

Having said this, Densen can be "too much" and I have ended up with a headache when listening to Densen equipment.... perhaps it was the loudspeakers on that occasion....

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

Although you did ask for "what is so comparable between their and Naim's *PHILOSOPHY*?"

This is why I listed Densen's philosophy (marketing hype etc.)

I'm glad that you have also had an excellent opportunity in forming your own opinion on the sound of Densen. Even though it is through a pair of Dynaudios.

Cheers,

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

I've only heard Densen once - well actually I should say I've only TRIED to hear Densen once - the guy who was insisting that this thing was better than a CD5 tried to do an A/B direct comparison demo but the Densen just refused to spin up at all - he tried to tell me that it was doing its Autodemagnetizing routine y'know - we'll have to wait a few minutes for it to settle down and recover!!! Laugh? I nearly.....

Densen? Behave yourself!

Regards P.

I love what you wrote. Still there are many manufacturers in different areas that succeed to stay many years at the top of the branch they are dealing with. Interest to see that sometimes it is because a classical approach (like the expensive mechanical Swiss watches industry) and sometimes because of a dynamic and "up to date" approach like these of the leading cars manufacturers.

Paul Stephenson,

No doubt, you have great products and wonderful
approach.

Arie

[This message was edited by Arie_Gur on WEDNESDAY 01 November 2000 at 08:54.]

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Who says that's Densen's aim and what is so comparable between their and Naim's philosophy?

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The reason I made the original comment was all to do with aims and attitude. Densen come across with all the fire attitude, and stonking value for money I remember from Naim in the 80s.

Naim have grown up a lot, and moved into a completely different market sector, they sell systems costing more than many houses round here. I can't begin to express how irrelevant a power amp or pair of speaker costing ten thousand pounds are to me, I will never own either, probably not even second hand in twenty years time. I don't even aspire to ownership of this kind of excess… I'm not criticising those who do, just pointing out that Naim have priced me out as a new customer.

I just miss the real kick ass attitude, and unbelievable (i.e. attainable) value of the earlier Naim years. I'm not such a big fan of growing up.

Tony.

Twenty years later the Hi Fi News and Record Review quotes the NAP 500 the best amplifier they sell, has a price of 10,000 pounds taking into account inflation and the performance increase does this represent a continuation of the original philosophy.

Another price benchmark:- I bought my first NAP 250 in 1978 for $2,300 Aust. In 1998 before we introduced GST and became a banana republic the NAP 250 was selling for about $5,000 Aust.

In the same period the Australian dollar has gone down the tube, $1.20 Aust to $1.00 US in the 1975 to $0.50 Aust to $1.00 US 2000.

This represents an enormous bargain now compared to 1975.

TTFN.

So the new series 5 stuff appears to be getting great press and is liked very much by the dealers I have spoken to. Better built and better sounding. Sounds like naim can grow and develop their customer base and maintain core values of musical integrity etc. Well if more people out there get into it that sounds only like good news to me.

Well I wish I could have a three pack nap500 system. Because I can't afford it it does not make my 250 sound any less wonderful. Good luck to the lucky b......s who can

Greg, I hope the check clears, and I hope you're not downsizing because you need the money. And I hope you haven't left music for 'home theater' or personal computing! But whatever the reason, I wish you luck. And I'm adding my voice to those who say you're way welcome on the forum - hell, you may be a breath of fresh air!

As for Naim, it's clear Julian was sui generis and a great loss to his friends and to his business. But that doesn't mean he was essential. We'll just have to wait and see what happens with the company and its products.

BTW, the first time I noticed Naim was in a study produced by BGW, who made 250 wpc amplifiers. The study reported on SPLs achieved before listeners ran out of the room screaming, comparing high end amps. The NAP250 did not achieve SPLs close to those achieved by the BGW, and I immediately dismissed Naim's apparent 250 watt amp as useless. Live and Learn, I always say.

Phil

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Greg...I hope you're not downsizing because you need the money. And I hope you haven't left music for 'home theater' or personal computing! But whatever the reason, I wish you luck. And I'm adding my voice to those who say you're way welcome on the forum - hell, you may be a breath of fresh air!

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Fortunately, I'm not downsizing because I need the cash and I still love music :-) As for staying on the forum, I'll probably fade away as my new perspective on all this puts me in a place where I really don't have much to contribute

- GregB
Freedom is not in finding the Holy Grail but in stopping the search for it

Regards,

Tim

In those days my Nait 1 listed at £255 which was more than double the price of something like a true entry level product like an Arcam Alpha. Needless to say I couldn't resist the Naim so I gave the shop a deposit to hold this ex dem one for me and saved the difference with my
bar job wages! That little box saw me throught University parties, unemployment, employment, separation, engagement and a whole load of other life experiences during the course of eleven years. I Don't think a single piece of hi-fi has ever given me so much pleasure or made me so excited and I will never ever sell it. It still plays tunes in the home office.

A Nait 5 probably equates to a Nait 1 in 1985 in average earnings terms. The NAP500/52/DBL are statement products designed to reflect the state of the art, but Naim's lower and mid range componentry is more extensive and every bit as affordable (or should that be aspirationally unaffordable!) as it has always been.

No change there as far as I can see.

Jonathan

A Nait5 is now $1600. A Creek 4330 is $500, $600 with remote. An MF XA-1 is $600. And the Nait5 phono option adds another $300.

Naim has raised the ladder a little higher--the slimlines are not just a few hundred more than the competition, but require serious outlay by any standard.

And no, I do not believe average income has increased by more than a factor of two. Nor do I believe that disposable income has. But I would believe that the number of consumers with a high level of disposable income has increased, since marketing seems increasingly focused on such people.

The silver lining: it is possible to get such components as a 32-5/Snaps for $363 shipped (I did). I bet that my amp, plus a trained monkey, would squarely beat a Nait5.

--Eri

17 years ago I bought my first property - it cost me £20k, this was deemed expensive(it was a very nice flat/apartment though - a pop star lives there now) My system at the time cost about £1200 - I wont bore you with the details.

I now live in a house with a market value approaching £250k and my system is worth around £10k - can you see the correlation here?

It's only money after all

Regards P.

[This message was edited by Pierre on WEDNESDAY 01 November 2000 at 21:46.]