My turn! (aka- Which road bike?)

Yes,

Ride a bike in your price range from every major manufacturer before you make a decision.

This includes the following:

Cannondale R600 or R800 (last year on the R800)
Specialized Allez
Bianchi Imola
Giant OCR-1
Jamis Quest
Trek 2100 or 2200 (2200 is a bit prciy, but perhaps last year).
Airborne (yes, they make one with full 105 for $1390)

Of these, only the 2100 and the 2200, as far as I can remember, have carbon forks and stays. And I have to admit these bikes are nice. But it's not the only way to skin the aluminum cat. For instance, the Cannondales and Giants use different variations of a sort of "swoop" in the seat stays to soak up vibrations, which I think are every bit as effective as the carbon stays (and perhaps more so - but who is to say for sure.

I have ridden all of these and picked the one that felt best for my geometry and was a good value. I liked the 2100 first and foremost (before riding the giants and Raleighs) but they didn't have my size. Glad they didn't - I liked the compact fraim type OCR-1 from Giant the best. It just felt better under my but and fit my body best.

It's all personal, I think.

judd

Ludwig--

You already know the drill.... And as I recall, you were the one who told me "Steel is where the party's at..."

If you like the Imola, might be worth a few phone calls to find a 2003. I got mine for $849 from Bicycle Village in Colorado. The Bianchi's in general fit me better than the Treks, Specialized, etc. that I rode. Wonderfully smooth and responsive bike--I'm training for a century (would have done it this past weekend but for the weather) and feel better than on any other bike I've ridden.

I find it somewhat ironic that Judd liked the Giant the most, because it sounds like he and I have similar challenges. I'm 6'1" and about 180 lbs, but my torso is very long, leaving me an inseam of 32", which is 4 inches shorter than would be expected for someone my height.

Enjoy!

Bob

More Questions

What's a good bargain road shoe (<$100) these days?

And if there's validity to "replace your helmet every few years", what's a good bargain road helmet (<$75)?

I'll be back...

Ludders,

First off, I think you need to figure out what kind of bike you want -- how many do you have at the moment? Will it be your only bike. Planning on some light off road with this rig? If I had to have just one bike it would be a 'cross bike. If I had a mtb already, then it'd be a road bike -- I'd still get a cross bike but later because they're just fun.

Next, what's the main use? Local crits, or centuries? Mostly flats or heading into the hills. Depending on which, you can strike a balance between light weight, rigidity, responsiveness and comfort. For a frame material, 853 Reynolds does strikes a good balance, but I also have a Scandium frame which is silly light (1Kg). FWIW there's a Pacer/Ultegra 56cm at Excelsports for $1300.

So fill us in.

cheers,

Dan

Or, check out Colorado Cyclists website -- there's a Al Litespeed with Ultegra for $1200 ($700 off!)

Dangoronio,

Ah- I previously mentioned the 'cross idea to you. Since then I ruled it out. A buddy buying a road bike 2 weeks ago has a lot to do with it.

I had to sell my fancy bikes and fancy Sidi shoes for financial reasons last year. That situation's settled, so I want a road bike now and a mountain bike (possibly much) later. This one's for riding mostly flat, paved trails during the week and mixed terrain with hills (some epic) on weekends. Someday I hope to do the STP ride.

Someday I hope to do the STP ride

No problem -- you've got 3 whole weeks

So what were your fancy bikes before and what did you like/dislike about them?

Dan

quote:

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Originally posted by Bob Edwards:

I find it somewhat ironic that Judd liked the Giant the most, because it sounds like he and I have similar challenges. I'm 6'1" and about 180 lbs, but my torso is very long, leaving me an inseam of 32", which is 4 inches shorter than would be expected for someone my height.

Enjoy!

Bob

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nah. We are nothing alike, really. I'm short and fat, and you are tall and skinny. That's probably 90% of the issue right there.

judd

quote:

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Originally posted by Dan M:
No problem -- you've got 3 whole weeks

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quote:

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So what were your fancy bikes before and what did you like/dislike about them?

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Waterford 1200 - I liked it because it was fast, handled like a dream, and still fairly comfy given the skinny tires. I disliked it because it was expensive and I was afraid of scratching it or having sweat drip onto it.

Trek 8000 - I liked it because it was cheap ($850 Fall clearance!) and a hardtail. I disliked it because it was aluminum, boring, had a lame patriotic red/white/blue paint scheme, and wasn't a very good point-and-shoot singletrack bike.

I've had several road bikes and three mountain bikes. I prefer the speed, riding position, spinning, and lack of obstacles of road riding.

Judd--

You've got a PT.

Bob

Since you liked the Waterford but want a more utilitarian feel, the Gunnar road frame is the obvious choice but at $750, you would have to spec. < ultegra components to be in budget. Not a bad way to go since you can upgrade later. There's a new 2003 56cm on ebay now with a buy it now of $550.

Otherwise, the Litespeed '03s seem an outstanding value.

cheers,

Dan

Day 1

The weather was flawless this afternoon so I left work behind to bike hunt. In assembling a list of shops, Judd's comments really resonated. I have this "thing" for steel, but I wanted to keep an open mind, especially since I hadn't ridden an aluminum road bike in ages, and had never mounted a bike with carbon fiber anywhere.

First stop was a shop whose entire staff- to my disbelief- was stoned out of their skulls. I hadn't ridden a Cannondale since about 1986, so I rode an '04 R600, ??cm. After picking my teeth back up along the relatively smooth test route, I noticed the shop also carried Bianchi. Nothing in my size, and their pricing was off the charts- $1,099 for an '02 Imola without pedals (I can get an '04 with pedals for $1,199). I hope these stoners aren't dictating local market prices.

Second stop was a one-man shop carrying Gunnar, Soma, and Surly. Really cool, knowledgeable guy but the Surly Pacer would cost $1,400 built up with 105 and handbuilt wheels. Ditto for Soma. Gunnar was about $700 over budget, since the road frame is $750 + fork. He did say something interesting- the Surly takes long-reach brakes to accomodate fenders (if desired). That struck my (potential) Seattle commuter chord. I also liked that Surly seemingly makes a city-proof frame.

Final stop was a Trek/LeMond/Klein/Specialized/Bianchi shop. The salesman described Klein and Specialized geometry as "upright, American criterium racing, responsive but demanding to handle on long rides- like a sports car", Bianchi and LeMond as "traditional Euro all-day racing, and for smoothly carving through corners" and Trek "somewhere in the middle". Knowing I could always come back to ride a steel Bianchi, I mounted a 2100, size 60cm. After the first 1/2 mile I thought "wow, this doesn't match my bad memories of aluminum (or the R600)". I noticed there was a lot of seatpost showing and the saddle was at maximum backward adjustment. I kept wanting to sit farther back on the saddle (probably a combo of sizing and my out-of-shape body wanting maximum leverage on the pedals for power). No 2100s in my size, so before I left I decided to ride a $2,600 Trek OCLV, size 62cm, since I'd never done so. Oh my. This bike was as responsive as the Cannondale, and worlds more comfortable than the 2100. I was extremely impressed. But it was 2x my budget. The salesman thought I was sold, but he has the wrong guy. I quickly exited the store.

Next outing I want to ride a Bianchi Imola and the Jamis Quest. One thing I noticed today is that my size is difficult to find this time of year (Seattle having more bicycle commuters than any US city). Hopefully I'll have some luck next time.

A question for Dan- what are some good online shops that might have 105 or Veloce build kits? I'm curious the prices, since the Surly/Soma/Gunnar seller is obviously low volume and probably doesn't get great discounts.

PS- Algers, there'll be no Nair under my bathroom sink.

Ludders,

62cm! Yikes, that's a big frame. I'm very surprised you didn't test ride a LeMond, since I thought they did an 853 tubed bike. If you could find one in your size it's worth a test ride. As far as build kits -- I'd look at the usual discount web outlets: pricepoint, cambria, excelsports, coloradocyclist, and supergo. You may have to put together your own kit from a gruppo and wheelset (most places will subtract the full price of one component i.e. hubs). Supergo often has good deals on wheelsets. OTOH, the one-man shop might deserve supporting if he's in the ball park.

cheers,

Dan

p.s. there are no substitutes for Sidis -- mine are still going strong since 1998. I got a sweet Briko lid from excel for less than $50.

Ludwig

I recently bought a Trek 2300 (Carbon stays front and rear) with ultegra. Rides like a dream for me.

Have a look at the 2200 - you might get a pleasant surprise !!!!

Ludwig--

As tempted as I am to say "Imola--you know it makes sense!" I'll refrain...for all the reasons you already know.

When I test rode, I tried a Trek 2200 and liked it--MUCH better than the 1000 I had. But going to the Imola gave me that "just right" feeling. No, it might not be quite as quick as the Trek, but it's damn close. And it is A LOT smoother and easier to ride for long distances. So if you're sprinting, the Trek might be better. But if you're doing longish rides the steel frame is just a lot more livable...

Oh, and the Imola is complete 105--the Trek 2200 is a combination of 105 and Ultegra.

Happy test riding! I'm off to ride....

Bob

Day 2

Today I took a long lunch off to my all-time favorite LBS- Gregg's Greenlake Cyclery. Their staff is top notch, not commissioned, and always helpful.

I shared my experiences from yesterday, and immediately a salesman who overheard shouted "we have a no-brainer just for YOU!" You see, last week they received a shipment of, yup you guessed- '03 Bianchi Imolas. Well none my size in sight, but because I hadn't ridden a Bianchi yet I rolled away on an '04 Vigorelli, size 61cm (same geometry as the Imola). Nice. Going up a hill, I got out of the saddle and it was the first bike where this felt very natural, almost as though the bike was an extension of me. Sweet. I noticed that a lot of seatpost was showing, as on my former 60cm Waterford, but the stem was nice and long- longer than my Waterford's. Overall a comfy cockpit.

I returned and rode a LeMond Tourmalet, size 61cm. Hmmm. First stop sign, my toes were reaching for the ground. First sprint out of the saddle, it felt awkward. But the super long cockpit felt, well- interesting. It felt relaxing and overly stretched at the same time.

Upon returning I mounted a 59cm Tourmalet. Oh, I should've said- again I was impressed with how far aluminum's come. But still these weren't as cushy as the Bianchi. Closer than expected though. On the 59, proportions seemed to be like the Bianchi. A decent bike.

I rolled back into the shop, waiting for my salesman to help a woman buy a $1,500 for her husband's birthday (no worries- return policy). In the meantime, an obviously seasoned salesman took my ear and we had a great conversation about steel Bridgestones, Rivendells, Serottas, Waterfords, Surlys, and all the stuff that made both of us excited.

Finally, my guy came over and asked for my thoughts.
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He checked the inventory.
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I pick up my '03 Imola, 61cm, next week ($999, local low price guarantee, 90 days free service, and again- by far my fav LBS). Bob, I appreciate the recommendation to call your shop, but I'm real happy giving Gregg's here my biz. I also think it Bianchi dealers aren't allowed to sell out of their territory. Regardless- thanks for the idea.

Ludwig--

Outstanding! Congratulations! Terrific bike!

Very glad you have a great shop--worth their weight in gold!

Although the plot thickened for me....I thought I should actually RIDE the San Lorenzo before plonking down long green for it....and it was a good thing. Alumininum frame, even Scandia, was still too harsh for my taste. So I traded up to a Vigorelli....same frame, just better wheels (Mavic Cosmos) and Ultegra in place of 105.

Congrats again and enjoy!

Bob

Bob and Ludwig --

Congrats on the new bikes! What's it with this forum and Bianchi?? I started out on a Bianchi Veloce around '96 which looks very comparable to today's Imola. I still ride a Bianchi -- around '99 I bought a lightly ridden 98 Giro Team Replica frame (Sc-Al) from a good friend who worked in a bike shop and had too many toys. It's still serving well. It has the same classic geometry as the Veloce but is a climbing beast -- Pantani won the Giro and the Tour on the same frame. Very light and rigid if not as supple as the steel frame. Of course I gradually moved the Veloce components onto the 'cross bike and now have 9 speed Chorus. Current wheelset is still Athena/MA40s - one of these days I'll treat myself to a nice set of Campy wheels.

I hope you both get as much (or more) enjoyment out of your Bianchis as I have gotten out of mine.

cheers,

Dan

Bob,

Congrats. The '04 Vigorelli I rode today was awesome. If I had the dough, I would've bought it. Also- you've commented that you're 6'1", 32" inseam, long torso. What size do you ride? I'm 6'2"ish with a 34" inseam and people commented yesterday and today that my torso's lengthy. That's what got me on a LeMond. I guess Greg had a long torso and liked to sit far back, and his bike geometries reflect that.

Dan,

Flat earth people are retro grouches, just like riders of steel Bianchis with 1" headsets!

Now... I need a few of those fancy Italian bottle cages, new shoes, and...

Ludwig--

I'm on a 57 cm. I did try a 59 and it was just too big.

The Vigorelli I got is also an 03. Doesn't climb as well as the San Lorenzo (Duh!) but is A LOT smoother on the roads and trails I'm usually riding...

"Italian bottle cages..." It never stops, does it? Of course, now I want something that combines the speed and quickness of the San Lorenzo with the smoothness of the Imola/Vigorelli.

Dan--thanks for the good wishes! Maybe sometime we will be able to do a ride together!

Best,

Bob

So I hope you both got them in classic Celeste. For full euro-poser effect make sure you pronounce it "Chel-es-stay" as you sip your doppio (chai for ludders) at the local cafe.

Bob -- travel has been insane. I flew 25K in 60 days earlier this year and I'm off on travel again all next week. However, I plan on getting back to a riding schedule after the holiday, so I'll be in touch then for a spin.

FYI, Elite Ciussi cages rock.

cheers,

Dan (53 c-c)

Boborino & Danaroni,

My bike is light/navy blue. Which is fine, because my buddy's is celeste and I don't want to look like The Ambiguously Gay Duo.

Bob said "I want something that combines the speed and quickness of the San Lorenzo with the smoothness of the Imola/Vigorelli."

That sounds like the Trek OCLV. Or maybe ti.

PS- I thought one of you lived in Ft. Collins. If so, do check out the new Whole Foods!

ag,

You guessed it, I'm actually a cycling photojournalist who get's to travel for free to all major euro races, and hangs out with Lance... ok m'be not.

Ludders,

It might be too late since you're not going to be wearing baggies and a full-face on that rig. CO's only Naim dealer is in Ft. Collins, but Bob and I are nearer/in Denver. Whats the deal w/ Whole Foods?

Dan

"Whats the deal w/ Whole Foods?"

Whole Foods is opening in FC, where it will crush the local Alfalfa's Market <sniff>.

quote:

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Originally posted by Dan M:
Whats the deal w/ Whole Foods?

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In addition to EJL's comments, same deal as Netflix- a company whose stock you should've purchased long ago.

Dan and Bob, please check your PTs.