Norton security
Posted by: Mick P on 15 August 2004
Chaps
I have 3 Norton programmes in my PC
They are
1. Norton Internet security ...Firewalls etc
2. Norton anti virus
3. Norton utilies integrator which is used for rapid defragging.
The first two peogrammes are 2003 professional and I am 3 weeks away from my renewal date.
My question is...am I better off renewing online via credit card or is it better to buy a disc.
I had these installed by a friend who has since left Swindon.
Regards
Mick
[This message was edited by Mick Parry on Sun 15 August 2004 at 15:52.]
I have 3 Norton programmes in my PC
They are
1. Norton Internet security ...Firewalls etc
2. Norton anti virus
3. Norton utilies integrator which is used for rapid defragging.
The first two peogrammes are 2003 professional and I am 3 weeks away from my renewal date.
My question is...am I better off renewing online via credit card or is it better to buy a disc.
I had these installed by a friend who has since left Swindon.
Regards
Mick
[This message was edited by Mick Parry on Sun 15 August 2004 at 15:52.]
Posted on: 15 August 2004 by Martin D
Mick
I had the products you are mentioning. I didn’t renew, but went over to zone alarm, a free firewall and AVG, an antivirus product again free from grisoft. I have found from friends pc’s that AVG seemed more than capable even above Norton.
PS what’s your operating system now?
Martin
I had the products you are mentioning. I didn’t renew, but went over to zone alarm, a free firewall and AVG, an antivirus product again free from grisoft. I have found from friends pc’s that AVG seemed more than capable even above Norton.
PS what’s your operating system now?
Martin
Posted on: 15 August 2004 by Mick P
You asked
"PS what’s your operating system now?
Sorry but I don't understand the question.
Regards
Mick
"PS what’s your operating system now?
Sorry but I don't understand the question.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 15 August 2004 by Paul Hutchings
By "what’s your operating system now" he means does your PC run Windows XP, Windows 2000 or Windows 98 or ME?
I'd say so long as you have the media to be able to re-install if your PC ever needs to be wiped, there's little reason not to just buy the online upgrade so long as you keep any usernames/passwords that they email you safe.
Martin's right that there are free programs that do what Norton does, and IMHO do it just as well, but if you're not au fait with these things it's probably easier to pay the twenty quid and renew what you have.
I would check what the Norton Internet Security updates consist of - with Antivirus you're obviously paying for detection of new viruses, but with a Firewall, if it works now I don't see why you'd need to renew anything, unless it will stop working if you don't.
regards,
Paul
I'd say so long as you have the media to be able to re-install if your PC ever needs to be wiped, there's little reason not to just buy the online upgrade so long as you keep any usernames/passwords that they email you safe.
Martin's right that there are free programs that do what Norton does, and IMHO do it just as well, but if you're not au fait with these things it's probably easier to pay the twenty quid and renew what you have.
I would check what the Norton Internet Security updates consist of - with Antivirus you're obviously paying for detection of new viruses, but with a Firewall, if it works now I don't see why you'd need to renew anything, unless it will stop working if you don't.
regards,
Paul
Posted on: 15 August 2004 by Mick P
Chaps
I use Windows 98se
Regards
Mick
I use Windows 98se
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 15 August 2004 by long-time-dead
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
You asked
"PS what’s your operating system now?
Sorry but I don't understand the question.
Regards
Mick
Click here - seems to make it all the more worthwhile...........
Posted on: 15 August 2004 by Mick P
Very funny.
Posted on: 15 August 2004 by long-time-dead
Sorry Mick
Couldn't resist it !
No hard feelings (especially as a fellow Member !)
Couldn't resist it !
No hard feelings (especially as a fellow Member !)
Posted on: 15 August 2004 by Mick P
You should have given the sign
Posted on: 15 August 2004 by dave simpson
Mick,
Though not a fan of Norton's products...I'd strongly suggest a hard copy (vs. a downloaded copy).
regards,
dave
Though not a fan of Norton's products...I'd strongly suggest a hard copy (vs. a downloaded copy).
regards,
dave
Posted on: 15 August 2004 by Mick P
Why is that?
Regards
Mick
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 15 August 2004 by andy c
HI Mick,
I agree with Dave,
A hard copy is useful in case your system crashes and you need to re install anything etc etc.
I use Systemworks 2004 and Their Firewall. The Firewall does get updates, and I have renewed mine. No doubt you will get conflicting advice but PC security is important as you well know...
regards,
andy c!
I agree with Dave,
A hard copy is useful in case your system crashes and you need to re install anything etc etc.
I use Systemworks 2004 and Their Firewall. The Firewall does get updates, and I have renewed mine. No doubt you will get conflicting advice but PC security is important as you well know...
regards,
andy c!
Posted on: 15 August 2004 by dave simpson
quote:
Why is that?
Several reasons Mick. Norton System Works (NSW) is a bit bloated in size and in the system resources it uses. Though space is not much of an issue with modern hard drives, it can be a problem on older rigs. Resource use like-wise.
Additionally, some of the tools built-in to NSW can cause problems especially with older windows operating systems (the 9x series....Win95, 98, ME). WinDoctor and System Doctor can suggest "fixes" that cause more harm than good. Their Windows registry cleaner has also been shown by testing labs to not be as effective as the tool built-in by Microsoft (and in some cases worse as it puts control in the hands of an unskilled user).
Norton's firewall while very effective requires a bit of expertise to configure correctly. As I recall with version 2003 and 2004 in wizard-mode, it requires the user to decide if several hundred potential services and applications may access the internet. While this is theoretically desirable from a security standpoint, it's impractical in the real world. You can't even expect a computer expert (much less the typical user) to make a correct decision about whether some of these obscure services as reported by NIS should be allowed or denied access to the internet.
Finally Norton's A-V....a bit cumbersome to navigate setting-wise and extremely slow to scan drives (compared to alternative brands). Symantec isn't the quickest on virus definition updates either and their heuristic scanner (a virus scanner which detects unknown viruses) is not up to the best standards. Considering the malicious code in the wild these days--excellent heuristics might prove to be more important than the timeliest of definitions. Pluses with Norton's A-V do include an expanding database for Trojans and worms. Symantec is doing a better job in this respect (compared to competitors) and should be commended.
From a security standpoint, the bottom line is if you feel comfortable with and understand how to secure your rig properly using Norton's products--by all means stay with Norton. Better tools are out there but if misconfigured, they're more dangerous than a less effective tool since the user is lulled into a false sense of security.
One suggestion I would make...if you have a broadband connection to the internet I'd consider purchasing a hardware firewall (router) for improving security further. On second thought....I'd say a router is mandatory if you're a broadband user.
regards,
dave
[This message was edited by dave simpson on Mon 16 August 2004 at 3:32.]
Posted on: 16 August 2004 by David Stewart
Personally, I don't see much benefit in buying software on CD, particularly as revisions are always likely to occur and must then be downloaded anyway. There's no reason why you can't download the software then write your own security copy to a CD locally.
If your Norton subscription is coming to an end, I would seriously consider changing to something like AVG and ZoneAlarm, as these tend to hog less system resources, particularly important with Win98SE, which is very prone to problems in this area as I know to my cost.
There is a certain comfort factor in buying software from big names like Norton, but you end up paying a lot for the name and their huge marketing costs. There's a lot of free and low cost alternatives out there now which work just as well, sometimes better and are often better supported too.
David
If your Norton subscription is coming to an end, I would seriously consider changing to something like AVG and ZoneAlarm, as these tend to hog less system resources, particularly important with Win98SE, which is very prone to problems in this area as I know to my cost.
There is a certain comfort factor in buying software from big names like Norton, but you end up paying a lot for the name and their huge marketing costs. There's a lot of free and low cost alternatives out there now which work just as well, sometimes better and are often better supported too.
David
Posted on: 16 August 2004 by cunningplan
quote:
One suggestion I would make...if you have a broadband connection to the internet I'd consider purchasing a hardware firewall (router) for improving security further. On second thought....I'd say a router is mandatory if you're a broadband user.
regards,
dave
Dave is quite right I've just recently upgraded to Broadband and purcahsed a Netgear wireless ADSL Firewall Router and also have Zone Alarm Pro as a software firewall. It may not be 100% safe but it would take a very determined hacker to get into my system. There is a good web site to visit which tests your firewall security called Sheilds Up! http://www.grc.com/ It tests all your ports when you're connected, it's worth a visit if you're worried about security.
Regards
Clive
Posted on: 16 August 2004 by count.d
Although Dave Simpson's advice is detailed, I don't agree with it.
Norton AV and firewall is very easy to install and once up and running, very rarely asks if you want to accept or deny an access. Even when it does, it is fairly obvious what the access is, as you have usually just pressed your return key.
"Pluses with Norton's A-V do include an expanding database for Trojans and worms. Symantec is doing a better job in this respect (compared to competitors) and should be commended"
So it's protecting your computer against viruses better than it's competitors then?
Mick,
Norton AV 2004 is better than the 2002/3 version. I would buy a new softare disc, install it and enter your serial number. This will give you piece of mind that you have a fully up to date licensed software.
I have Norton AV and firewall and I've never had a problem with it. On another forum, people discuss about how they don't pay for AV and how they use "free" sofware. Recently a one off poster put a link on the forum to a virus. My Norton AV picked it up immediatley. I think others were/are oblivious to it.
My knowledge comes from my own use and my brother, who is a computer systems engineer. He cringes at the "free" softwares.
P.S. A router is the best way to go for internet security.
Norton AV and firewall is very easy to install and once up and running, very rarely asks if you want to accept or deny an access. Even when it does, it is fairly obvious what the access is, as you have usually just pressed your return key.
"Pluses with Norton's A-V do include an expanding database for Trojans and worms. Symantec is doing a better job in this respect (compared to competitors) and should be commended"
So it's protecting your computer against viruses better than it's competitors then?
Mick,
Norton AV 2004 is better than the 2002/3 version. I would buy a new softare disc, install it and enter your serial number. This will give you piece of mind that you have a fully up to date licensed software.
I have Norton AV and firewall and I've never had a problem with it. On another forum, people discuss about how they don't pay for AV and how they use "free" sofware. Recently a one off poster put a link on the forum to a virus. My Norton AV picked it up immediatley. I think others were/are oblivious to it.
My knowledge comes from my own use and my brother, who is a computer systems engineer. He cringes at the "free" softwares.
P.S. A router is the best way to go for internet security.
Posted on: 16 August 2004 by reductionist
quote:
Originally posted by Mick Parry:
You should have given the sign
Cool, a secret sign. Does it impede your secret handshake? What is the sign, I'd hate to accidentally use it and have people think I am an arrogant and pompous ass.
With a little more seriousness, the latest version of Norton is very good and simple to install and keep running.
Posted on: 16 August 2004 by HTK
Renewing subscriptions on line isn't a problem. On one occasion the time just reset and I got another year of virus definitions for nowt. Upgrading the software is, in my bitter experience an efficient way of chucking money away - I always buy the CDs now.
IMO NAV is as good as anything you can obtain, but I've dropped all the other Nortron stuff on the basis of bloat and system performance. Zone Alarm Pro seems to fit the bill much better.
Cheers
Harry
IMO NAV is as good as anything you can obtain, but I've dropped all the other Nortron stuff on the basis of bloat and system performance. Zone Alarm Pro seems to fit the bill much better.
Cheers
Harry
Posted on: 16 August 2004 by Richard S
quote:
Originally posted by count.d:
Mick,
Norton AV 2004 is better than the 2002/3 version. I would buy a new softare disc, install it and enter your serial number. This will give you piece of mind that you have a fully up to date licensed software.
.
I agree with this opinion.
Our ISP changed from Freeserve to Wanadoo recently and there were initially problems with connection and email which were ascribed to the Firewall (Norton 2002). Although we had obtained a new subscription we were informed by the Norton helpdesk that old + upgrade does not quite equal new product. With 2004 disc installed everything runs AOK.
Tried the "Shield's Up" exercise and got a clean bill of health.
regards
Richard S
Posted on: 16 August 2004 by Mike Hughes
Mick,
So many opinions and so few people listening.
1) Norton 2004 is better for certain options (scanning PDAs etc.) but if you don't need the extra features it offers then don't bother. 2002 is just fine and actually received much better reviews.
2) Online subscription/renewal is equally fine. If it works for you then don't bother switching to the other equally fine products mentioned here. If you have been reminded to renew then you clearly have a legit. registered version and so I wouldn't worry too much about this "piece of mind" nonsense being spouted above. No idea what that's about.
3) Hardware copy - do you have the original installation disks? If you do then they're a good thing to have around. If not, that might be a reason to update the products but stay with something you are familiar with. Recent example, my W98SE system went haywire and wouldn't virus scan. The only solution was to uninstall NAV 2002 and then reinstall it and the many virus definitions I have collected in two years. Without the original CDs I would have simply been stuffed.
4) Two final thoughts - always backup your virus definitions (C:\windows\common files\... somewhere like that. It'll save you a lot of download time if it ever screws up (and they all do). Finally, have you made rescue discs for NAV. If you don't have the original installation CD(s) then making them could one day save your PC.
Mike
So many opinions and so few people listening.
1) Norton 2004 is better for certain options (scanning PDAs etc.) but if you don't need the extra features it offers then don't bother. 2002 is just fine and actually received much better reviews.
2) Online subscription/renewal is equally fine. If it works for you then don't bother switching to the other equally fine products mentioned here. If you have been reminded to renew then you clearly have a legit. registered version and so I wouldn't worry too much about this "piece of mind" nonsense being spouted above. No idea what that's about.
3) Hardware copy - do you have the original installation disks? If you do then they're a good thing to have around. If not, that might be a reason to update the products but stay with something you are familiar with. Recent example, my W98SE system went haywire and wouldn't virus scan. The only solution was to uninstall NAV 2002 and then reinstall it and the many virus definitions I have collected in two years. Without the original CDs I would have simply been stuffed.
4) Two final thoughts - always backup your virus definitions (C:\windows\common files\... somewhere like that. It'll save you a lot of download time if it ever screws up (and they all do). Finally, have you made rescue discs for NAV. If you don't have the original installation CD(s) then making them could one day save your PC.
Mike
Posted on: 16 August 2004 by dave simpson
Hi count.d,
Not obvious to everyone. Worse yet, "everyone" tends to get complacent or aggrevated with their firewall "nagging" them to allow or deny connection so they click and allow on every flag defeating the purpose of the firewall. The other problem (IMHO) is Norton's IDS. During the initial wizard, baselining an already infected system is entirely possible. With Norton's thorough (but confusing) list of services calling outon an NT-based OS, you'd easily miss malware phoning home...especially a novice. Granted this isn't exclusive to Norton, but when PC newbies are involved...eek. Don't misunderstand me though, NIS is my favorite Norton product and a darn good firewall...just not for beginners (IMO).
"Better" still isn't good enough when virus definitions aren't timely and heuristics suck. Still, they are trying to improve their product by including Trojans in the database and that's more than most. Just not enough (IMO).
I agree with your brother though free is better than nothing. Quality does fluctuate wildly over time (AVG for example) as well as effectiveness at any given moment but if the price tag attracts those that would not have secured their rigs otherwise...I say bring on the free-ware!
regards,
dave
quote:
Norton AV and firewall is very easy to install and once up and running, very rarely asks if you want to accept or deny an access. Even when it does, it is fairly obvious what the access is, as you have usually just pressed your return key.
Not obvious to everyone. Worse yet, "everyone" tends to get complacent or aggrevated with their firewall "nagging" them to allow or deny connection so they click and allow on every flag defeating the purpose of the firewall. The other problem (IMHO) is Norton's IDS. During the initial wizard, baselining an already infected system is entirely possible. With Norton's thorough (but confusing) list of services calling outon an NT-based OS, you'd easily miss malware phoning home...especially a novice. Granted this isn't exclusive to Norton, but when PC newbies are involved...eek. Don't misunderstand me though, NIS is my favorite Norton product and a darn good firewall...just not for beginners (IMO).
quote:
So it's protecting your computer against viruses better than it's competitors then?
"Better" still isn't good enough when virus definitions aren't timely and heuristics suck. Still, they are trying to improve their product by including Trojans in the database and that's more than most. Just not enough (IMO).
quote:
My knowledge comes from my own use and my brother, who is a computer systems engineer. He cringes at the "free" softwares.
I agree with your brother though free is better than nothing. Quality does fluctuate wildly over time (AVG for example) as well as effectiveness at any given moment but if the price tag attracts those that would not have secured their rigs otherwise...I say bring on the free-ware!
regards,
dave
Posted on: 16 August 2004 by Phil Barry
1) Get rid of Norton Internet Security - it is cumbersome to configure (though not with only 1 PC), it is a resource hog, and most reliable reviews I've seen indicate it is less secure than the free version of ZoneAlarm.
2) Norton AV, per some reviews, is better than the free Grisoft AVG. The 2004 version may be better - more rigorous - than the 2003 version, but it is prone to problems which require removing and reinstalling it...and since it's a Symantec product, the removal/reinstall often fails. So stay with the 2003 version.
3) The problem is that Symantec has implemented a version of DRM (digital rights management - copy protection), and it is not ready for prime time. At $30/pop, it's probaly made their service department a ton of money.
4) If you search pricewatch.com, you can probably find some great prices on AV software.
5)Mick, Mick, Mick, WDF are you doing with Windows 98? Naim, wine, LPs, spouses...lots of things are great even when they're old. Software is not like that at all. Can't you use a new PC? I think I've seen a number of PC questions from you on this forum...XP is something of a kluge - it's a horrible kluge - but it's a hell of a lot more reliable than 98SE. Spring for a new PC with XP Pro.
Regards.
Phil
2) Norton AV, per some reviews, is better than the free Grisoft AVG. The 2004 version may be better - more rigorous - than the 2003 version, but it is prone to problems which require removing and reinstalling it...and since it's a Symantec product, the removal/reinstall often fails. So stay with the 2003 version.
3) The problem is that Symantec has implemented a version of DRM (digital rights management - copy protection), and it is not ready for prime time. At $30/pop, it's probaly made their service department a ton of money.
4) If you search pricewatch.com, you can probably find some great prices on AV software.
5)Mick, Mick, Mick, WDF are you doing with Windows 98? Naim, wine, LPs, spouses...lots of things are great even when they're old. Software is not like that at all. Can't you use a new PC? I think I've seen a number of PC questions from you on this forum...XP is something of a kluge - it's a horrible kluge - but it's a hell of a lot more reliable than 98SE. Spring for a new PC with XP Pro.
Regards.
Phil
Posted on: 16 August 2004 by dave simpson
quote:
5)Mick, Mick, Mick, WDF are you doing with Windows 98? Naim, wine, LPs, spouses...lots of things are great even when they're old. Software is not like that at all. Can't you use a new PC? I think I've seen a number of PC questions from you on this forum...XP is something of a kluge - it's a horrible kluge - but it's a hell of a lot more reliable than 98SE. Spring for a new PC with XP Pro.
Amen Phil. A bottom of the line Dell costs less than a new Burndy.
regards,
dave
Posted on: 16 August 2004 by Rasher
Dell are currently doing this which is so cheap, it would be rude not to buy it. With XP Home or Pro, free printer, VAT & p&p inclusive.
Posted on: 16 August 2004 by dave simpson
quote:
... it would be rude not to buy it.
Cheers Rasher! Snappy 2004 potential!
regards,
dave
Posted on: 16 August 2004 by Jez Quigley
Mick,
Phil is right, get thisen a new PC with XP on it, then download the XP SP2 update - it is a lot more secure than any other windows version, and has a built in firewall.
As for virus checkers, the one at www.avast.com is better than most and free for personal use. I don't know how Norton get away with charging money for theirs.
You always go for what you see as the best in Hi-Fi - if you want to do the same in PCs look at these awesome beasts:
http://www.alienware.com/
[This message was edited by Jez Quigley on Mon 16 August 2004 at 19:28.]
Phil is right, get thisen a new PC with XP on it, then download the XP SP2 update - it is a lot more secure than any other windows version, and has a built in firewall.
As for virus checkers, the one at www.avast.com is better than most and free for personal use. I don't know how Norton get away with charging money for theirs.
You always go for what you see as the best in Hi-Fi - if you want to do the same in PCs look at these awesome beasts:
http://www.alienware.com/
[This message was edited by Jez Quigley on Mon 16 August 2004 at 19:28.]