Can a speaker kill the 200?
Posted by: MichaelV on 05 May 2004
Hi,
something strange happened today:
I’ve been playing music, when suddenly right in the fortissimo of the recording (Rimskij-Korsakoff, Sheherazade, a perfect DG recording that I own for years) a terrible crackling came out of the speakers. A quick tap on mute prevented the worst, but now I am a bit confused: my 202/NAPSC/200 never had problems driving any of the very different speakers that were connected to them during the past year. And the BC Acoustique A2 that I've been playing with(from the manufacturers new ACT series) are 91dB/4 ohm speakers (at least officially). They’re a three way bass reflex design with horn tweeter. A good match to the Naims I thought – until now.
So what do you think: Are there speakers out there, that can, under certain circumstances, act like Naimkillers? Or are the BCs faulty?
Thanks for your comments!
Michael
something strange happened today:
I’ve been playing music, when suddenly right in the fortissimo of the recording (Rimskij-Korsakoff, Sheherazade, a perfect DG recording that I own for years) a terrible crackling came out of the speakers. A quick tap on mute prevented the worst, but now I am a bit confused: my 202/NAPSC/200 never had problems driving any of the very different speakers that were connected to them during the past year. And the BC Acoustique A2 that I've been playing with(from the manufacturers new ACT series) are 91dB/4 ohm speakers (at least officially). They’re a three way bass reflex design with horn tweeter. A good match to the Naims I thought – until now.
So what do you think: Are there speakers out there, that can, under certain circumstances, act like Naimkillers? Or are the BCs faulty?
Thanks for your comments!
Michael
Posted on: 05 May 2004 by Tuan
at a rating of 91 db into 4 ohm the NAP200 will not need a lot of current to drive your speakers to a loud level. However, if you listen too loud, too much current is needed to drive 4 drivers/channel (total of 8 drivers for both channels), the NAP200 may run into problem (especially the pre-amp is also powered from the same transformer). I would suggest you to borrow a high-cap (or a flatcap) to power the pre-amp and try it again. You know that if the current is not sufficient, you may risk blowing the tweeter and if there is too much power delivered from a powerful amp (listen at very high volume) you risk a chance to blow the mid-range/woofers. If you like very loud music, use Bryston amp and Naim CD/Pre-amp. This combo works very well too. I have the XRCD of the same album and love it. my NAP300 driving a two-way speakers (B&W805) has no problem. I know this album needs to be listen at high volume to feel right.
Posted on: 05 May 2004 by Peter C
Getting a hicap is a good suggestion.
Driving a Naim preamp from a poweramp, at the same time as running a 4 ohm speaker load at high levels isn't the smartest move.
Driving a Naim preamp from a poweramp, at the same time as running a 4 ohm speaker load at high levels isn't the smartest move.
Posted on: 05 May 2004 by Stevea
Make sure all your connections are clean. A poor comnnection might only show itself under extreme load (similar to a bad connection on a car battery in the middle of winter).
Steve
Steve
Posted on: 05 May 2004 by hi fi fo fum
could be a DC problem with your amp.
any funny pops or cracks when turned on or off?
any funny pops or cracks when turned on or off?
Posted on: 06 May 2004 by Pictish
Michael,
What kind of speaker cable are you using? Driving those speakers with non-NACA5 wire could cause the NAP200 to fry.
Mike
What kind of speaker cable are you using? Driving those speakers with non-NACA5 wire could cause the NAP200 to fry.
Mike
Posted on: 06 May 2004 by MichaelV
Peter C,
AFAIK all Naim speakers are 4 ohm loads, as well as all of the speakers I have had in my listening room, among these the quite demanding Dynaudio Special One and the Thiel 2.4, which both went really loud without problems. The slight dynamic compression at peak levels performed by the 202/200 sounds definitely different.
Stevea,
gonna check this.
hi fi fo fum,
there are just the usual Naim amp pops at turning on and off, nothing irregular.
Pictish,
have always been using OCOS triple twisted, now Audioquest Pikes Peak, Biwiring.
The BC Acoustique distributor suggested to try a different amp – according to him the Naims possibly don’t like the 3,2 impedance minimum of the A2. Maybe it’s a too complex load?
BTW, I’ve made a similar experience with an Audio Note single ended power amp, rated at about 15 Watt. There I was listening to Vladimir Horowitz at moderate level, then came an accent on the high keys, and "crackle!". Maybe I was too confident of the 91 dB ...
Michael
PS: Just talked to the guys of BC: they know about the problem, it’s about the power handling, where an extremely distortion-free speaker reaches its limits at a subjectively moderate, but in reality quite high level. Gonna buy myself a level meter and check this.
AFAIK all Naim speakers are 4 ohm loads, as well as all of the speakers I have had in my listening room, among these the quite demanding Dynaudio Special One and the Thiel 2.4, which both went really loud without problems. The slight dynamic compression at peak levels performed by the 202/200 sounds definitely different.
Stevea,
gonna check this.
hi fi fo fum,
there are just the usual Naim amp pops at turning on and off, nothing irregular.
Pictish,
have always been using OCOS triple twisted, now Audioquest Pikes Peak, Biwiring.
The BC Acoustique distributor suggested to try a different amp – according to him the Naims possibly don’t like the 3,2 impedance minimum of the A2. Maybe it’s a too complex load?
BTW, I’ve made a similar experience with an Audio Note single ended power amp, rated at about 15 Watt. There I was listening to Vladimir Horowitz at moderate level, then came an accent on the high keys, and "crackle!". Maybe I was too confident of the 91 dB ...
Michael
PS: Just talked to the guys of BC: they know about the problem, it’s about the power handling, where an extremely distortion-free speaker reaches its limits at a subjectively moderate, but in reality quite high level. Gonna buy myself a level meter and check this.
Posted on: 06 May 2004 by Geoff P
quote:
have always been using OCOS triple twisted, now Audioquest Pikes Peak, Biwiring.
The BC Acoustique distributor suggested to try a different amp – according to him the Naims possibly don’t like the 3,2 impedance minimum of the A2. Maybe it’s a too complex load?
BTW, I’ve made a similar experience with an Audio Note single ended power amp, rated at about 15 Watt. There I was listening to Vladimir Horowitz at moderate level, then came an accent on the high keys, and "crackle!". Maybe I was too confident of the 91 dB ...
Tut.Tut!
The OCOS triple twisted wire does NOT sound like a good idea AND Bi-wiring is not recommended by Naim since it "doubles" the wire problem.
I have Totem's which drop to 2 ohms and I ran them fine off of a 150.
I don't think the resistive load of the speakers is the issue. Go to NACA5 wire and Single wire with speaker terminal bridges made out of pieces of NACA5 aswell (not essential).
With 90dB sensitivity you should have no problems reaching beyond NORMAL moderate listening levels (80-85dB on a sound meter where you sit).
regards
GEOFF
Posted on: 06 May 2004 by ys
so, it is possible that the spk cable kills the 200, not the spk. What is the secret of a naca5 which is suppose to be the only spk cable that works safely with naim amp? what technical spec. should I look for when I try other brands' spk cable on my naim power amp? in order to prevent damage made to my naim amp?
Posted on: 06 May 2004 by MichaelV
The sound level meter says: stay below appr. 92 dB!
This is definitively not too loud. And sorry to say that, but I don’t believe that caps and cables could help. It just doesn’t sound like distortions, it’s a clearly audible crackling, that follows dynamic peaks – both in bass and trebles. BC say that in France there is a lot of Naim around and there have never occurred any problems. It must be the speaker, maybe a transport accident ...
Anyway, thanks for your help!
Michael
This is definitively not too loud. And sorry to say that, but I don’t believe that caps and cables could help. It just doesn’t sound like distortions, it’s a clearly audible crackling, that follows dynamic peaks – both in bass and trebles. BC say that in France there is a lot of Naim around and there have never occurred any problems. It must be the speaker, maybe a transport accident ...
Anyway, thanks for your help!
Michael
Posted on: 06 May 2004 by Geoff P
Michael
Is the noise coming out of both speakers or just one? If it is just one, try swapping them over. If the noise swaps with it it is obviously the speakers.
Also disconnect one set of the bi-wired speaker cable so you are either only driving the tweeters or only driving the woofers. Does the noise go away in either of these test. This also will help to tell you if it is one of the units in the speakers.
Are you sure your signal lead has'nt got an intermittent connection where one of the wires is lose. Undo the fixing screw on the outer metal case of the Din plaug and check inside. A quick and dirty test would be to wiggle the Din plug in its socket.
GEOFF
Is the noise coming out of both speakers or just one? If it is just one, try swapping them over. If the noise swaps with it it is obviously the speakers.
Also disconnect one set of the bi-wired speaker cable so you are either only driving the tweeters or only driving the woofers. Does the noise go away in either of these test. This also will help to tell you if it is one of the units in the speakers.
Are you sure your signal lead has'nt got an intermittent connection where one of the wires is lose. Undo the fixing screw on the outer metal case of the Din plaug and check inside. A quick and dirty test would be to wiggle the Din plug in its socket.
GEOFF
Posted on: 06 May 2004 by MichaelV
Geoff,
both speakers react exactly the same. And with different speakers but same amps/cables everythimg is okay. Now I'll seal my ears, disconnect one terminal and turn the volume up ...
both speakers react exactly the same. And with different speakers but same amps/cables everythimg is okay. Now I'll seal my ears, disconnect one terminal and turn the volume up ...