BMW 330Ci Sport Coupe

How about an M3? I fancy it's cousin, the M5, as my next motor, but not until I get a garage to keep it in...

330s look good, but I wonder whether the M3 might be the better choice? I know nothing more about M3s having never owned one, but it's surely worth considering?

John

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Originally posted by Rana Ali:
My "BMW-man" comment was more related to the fact that many drivers (esp here in the South East M25/M4/M3/M23 region) view BMW drivers as aggressive bumper-hugging road hoggers; with the result that they tend to get shut-off more than is usual when needing to pull out into traffic.
Rana

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This is a very astute observation.
I also believed I didn't care about a car's image, only performance/handling/reliability until I got an Evo VIII last year. All the "BMW man" problems magnified x10. If you drive a fast & aggressive image car, people will treat you aggressively.
I can't overstate what an impact this made on me over the last year, but can prove my point by the fact that I have just sold the Evo (losing a shed-load of money) and ordered a Saab.

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[QUOTE]?

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only black will do!


If you don't mind polishing it every weekend to hide the swirls and scratches. (See the car polishing thread)

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I have just sold the Evo (losing a shed-load of money) and ordered a Saab

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Hmmm... I know what you mean, I always find Evos and Scooby's a bit threatening - I always feel that the drivers want to race and make ridiculously silly overtaking manoevres...

I should learn not to tar them all with the same brush.

Curious choice in Saab, though - how's that working out? Never personally liked the look of them but otherwise they seem to be great cars...

John

I highly recommend the New Nissan 350Z.

It has better performancce than the BMW 330, personaly I think it looks better and it costs less!

What more could you want?



Regards


NB

L.T.D,

I owned a 330Ci manual for 3 years until last November and IMHO the positives are:
1/Performance(accompanied by a lovely engine note)
2/Handling
3/Fuel economy,(I got 31 mpg out of mine)
4/Reliability
5/cost of running,(servicing is relatively cheap and at 15,000 mile intervals
6/Surprisingly roomy for a coupe
7/Slick gearbox
8/Great brakes


Negatives are:
1/Seating position,(pedals awkwardly off-set to the right)and manual seat adjustment rubbish
2/High and hard clutch
3/MV style alloys difficult to clean and prone to damage
4/High cost of tyres though they wore well
5/Depreciation heavy on manual models
6/Interior looking dated compared to it's peers
7/There's loads of them on the road.
8/"Average" standard stereo.

Mine was in Orient Blue with grey leather - not so common as silver and black. My advice? Don't take the manual for the reasons above unless you don't mind losing lots of money and frequent visits to the osteopath aren't off-putting! Go for electric seats as well.Can't comment on the SMG option though....
Others to consider in the same price bracket?
Well,3 series drivers are a particular breed so an A4 or 9-3 won't do but a Nissan 350Z might. A CLK320 is also a good option but perhaps too old an image.
Have fun!
Have fun

Agree here with Gizmogirl on the interior - I had silver and black,(o.k, the so called silver is plastic but it's still nicer than the wood which really belongs in an Alpina IMHO).
Can't agree on the manual version unless your daily drive isn't in stop/start traffic which mine is - it will be wearing to say the least but it will give your left leg a good workout even if you do need special trousers to accomodate the over-developed muscles!

Mine was black just like the one in the photo. It always looked scruffy within seconds of being cleaned and after three years it was covered in swirls. I didn't have any problem with stone chips - possibly because I don't tailgate?

M3 is an altogether different proposition. A 330 isn't an M3 wannabe to me, because I don't want an M3. I take Giz's point about the auto box but don't agree. You can have lots of fun with a good auto and the 5 speed box on the 330 is a cracker - if that's what you want.

Cheers

Harry

I’ve had two 2002, a 325i, two 328i, a 330i, a 530i and currently a 530d so I’ve appreciated Beemers. I’ve had a couple of the coupes as loaners, including the 330ci and the bottom line is that the E36 and 46 are cracking driving cars. When you get the chance to offload the family and let rip on an A-road, it’s blindingly sharp and involving; the driving experience is really special. The major downside of the E46 is the image and huge Trabant-like market saturation. I know it’s coming off like a snob, but with the proliferation of 316, 318 and ES value models, the E46 has very little cachet left, at least in this country. When I get loaners, irrespective of the spec, I feel anything but special. That would probably be my major concern if I was contemplating an E46 right now.

On a much smaller scale, the TT 3.2Q is a great car to drive but again has also suffered from saturation and familiarity breeding contempt.

I’d also say have a look at the 3.2 Alfa GT as it’s achingly beautiful and the engine would be to die for, but there’s always those reliability niggles.

The RX8 has enough room for 4 for journeys of up to an hour and access is good with those suicide doors. It’s a hoot to drive but it apparently it drinks oil and if you do a lot of miles I’d imagine it would prove wearing over long journeys.

Don’t like the MB sports coupe, smooth and confident drive, true 4 seater, but the interior, even on the refreshed model, is v poor and it’s utterly anonymous.

A bit left field but what about the 9-3 Aero or the new A4Q s-line with that fantastic 3.0tdi?

One other thing which I only realized recently when test driving cars with my wife, is that both MB and Audi are noticeably more comfortable and the quality of Audi interiors really is significantly better than it's BMW counterpart, with the E46 really starting to look tired these days. I guess these are only factors if you do a lot of driving. Also I’ve found that the ride in the BMW sports package, like the Audi S-line, is not conducive to long journeys on the dry riverbeds that we use for roads.

Aren’t you remotely interested in the new GTi? I was speaking with a bloke who drives an A3 3.2Q, who has driven the 2.0 TFSi Sportback and he was blown away by the engine. Apparently a stunning allrounder; torque and hp. You’ll appreciate the torque buzz from your TDi experience. I think that the new GTi is getting a tuned up version of this engine and the early mag reviews, for what they’re worth, are raving about the engine and handling; by all accounts it’s the true successor to the Mark I.

I’ve recently been driven in a Golf 2.0tdi and loved it. It went like stink and I loved that kick in the pants surge so I’m assuming that your Golf served up something similar. So if you’re set on the 330ci and TBH there’s not much else that ticks the sporty 4 seater coupe boxes at that price, I absolutely guarantee that you’ll punch yourself really hard in the face if you don’t try the 330cd. It’s much stronger than the petrol and in-gear acceleration is better leading to all round easier yet more enjoyable drive. The engine is smoother than the Pumpe Duse but all the excitement and mid-range grunt is there in spades. Bigger laughs and less money to Gordon. I’d be surprised if your Golf hasn’t already more torque at lower revs than the 330i. Then go look at what the 330cd pumps out. Seriously, I dismissed what people were saying and writing about new diesel performance as hype. When I got a 530d service loaner, my misconceptions fell away and I took the afternoon off work to go for a burn. For real life driving it was clearly the better car and a subsequent back to back test drive confirmed this. Unless VAG do a larger version of the TFSi I honestly don’t see any driving appeal in going back to petrol.

And if you want a car that really goes like stink, wait for the new shape and the 335d.

Agreed. Though they need to de-Japanese-ify the new rear end and steer well clear of the compromised interior of the E60, the X3 and the kart. If they could do both those things right now with the current 535d I'd be in like flint.

I also have the 330i saloon. It is a brilliant car. On mine there is the optional 18inch Alpina wheels with very low profile tyres. Whilst these may look the biz, I am finding more and more that the impact on road noise and bumpiness is dramatic. So you may wish to keep that in mind when choosing your options.

I tried out the SMG gearbox on a friends car and am very happy with the steptronic auto box.

David

So then LTD - what are your thoughts?
Seems like you're set on the 330 but what's it going to be? Petrol or diesel?
What I'm going to write is really shallow and inflammatory but it's a free country and forum for the exchange of views and thoughts so here goes:
First off, let's all acknowledge that diesel outperforms petrol with greater fuel economy to boot. However, I think there is a perception out there that people who drive these "high performance" diesels are company car owners and that by and large, diesel is the choice of the "commercially frugal". Even if it is a company car you drive,(as mine is), you don't want anything drawing attention to that fact and a diesel is a sure fire way of doing that. In addition, a diesel engine is less refined - the Beemer engine is top drawer but it still sounds like a diesel and that's not a noise I for one like. The 5 series has better soundproofing and it's less obvious cosmetically to pick out a diesel from a petrol but on the 3 series, the exhaust pipe looks like it's come off a London Taxi.
This is an extremely image conscious sector of the market and that's why I'm not ashamed to say I chose petrol over diesel for these reasons alone.
If I wanted to save money I'd have got a cheaper car and if I'd wanted more performance, I'd have got an M3.
Besides, there's something hedonistic about driving a big-engined petrol motor which perversely appeals to the show-off in me. I won't buy any of that "saving the environment" argument though - that's one area where petrol scores higher than diesel,(for particulate emissions though I stand to be corrected).
Think there's enough here to carry the discussions on and if I've been too aggressive in stating my views then it's probably because I'm an ex-Beemer driver and it's in my nature,(which should also kick a few discussions off to boot!).
Apologies in advance for inadvertantly upsetting or insulting anyone with my views!

Stone chips and Tailgating.

I am not a fan of tailgating and I find that flashing the xenons are usually enough for most people in Canada. I am more likely to be tailgated and usually by some twat in a mini van who thinks safety means driving 140kmh with his whole family in the vehicle. Having seen what the brakes on this car can do, I am understandably nervous about being tailgated. Ironically it's never by other sports car drivers.

In the east there is often gravel and small rocks on the shoulder and trucks seem to have a tendancy to veer to the shoulder. The result is spray which leaves chips. Any highway driving in Canada with the exception of the West coast will result in chips in the hood. it doesn't look terrible but up close they are evident on a black surface.

tw

I believe diesels have got away from close scrutiny because the politicians want us to believe they’re so ‘green’. This won’t last for ever. They might produce less Carbon Dioxide but that’s about all the good news there is. I know that the good ones are more efficient and don’t sound like a skeleton masturbating in a filing cabinet but I’ll take a petrol any day.

Cheers

Harry

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Apologies in advance for inadvertantly upsetting or insulting anyone with my views!

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I’m guessing you’re referring to me, in which no sweat, absolutely no offence taken, it's a fair point. In fact a few years back I would have said exactly the same only more scathing and dogmatically refusing to concede the superior performance of diesel. It’s horses for courses and I’d be the last to deny the attraction of the petrol six, it’s fantastic. I’d never even considered the 530d until I drove it and was sold simply on the blistering performance, dramatically greater in-gear acceleration over the petrol allied to the control and smooth ride of my 530i. The mpg was the icing on the cake and if it were no better I’d still take the 530d. I don’t think many people buy 3 or 4 litre diesels to try and save money.

You might be right about the soundproofing as I haven’t tried the 330d, but after a minute or so of the rattle from cold, the 530d is otherwise silky smooth apart from a growl which is different but just as satisfying as the 530i. I think that the new 530d has a particulate filter and hence the same straight chrome exhaust as the petrol. Don’t know about the 330d, but then I think the downturned pipe is worth it for the performance gain.

As someone who drives a lot and has driven a lot of great cars, I simply invite everyone to bury their preconceptions and have a go to see what you’re missing before someone in government catches on what a hoot they are and puts a tax or cap on torque. LTD obviously has experience already with his Golf and should have a spin in the 330cd before he decides, that’s all I’m saying.

Quick post - going out soon but wanted to reply.

Wife threw a curveball today when she had a thought.....

"You want a 911 so why don't you get a used one and wait until a new one becomes viable rather than looking at buying the BMW"

Women - argh !!!!

(Now got a completely new dilemma........ 330 / used M3 / used 911)

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(Now got a completely new dilemma........ 330 / used M3 / used 911)

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oh what a hard life you lead. I do question, though, why anyone parting with their own hard-earned would buy a new car just to lose 20% of a rather large amount on driving it out of the showroom.

Hi John

(Yep - couldn't resist it. Wife STILL getting ready.....)

It comes down to three things.......

1. The fact it is not a company vehicle but something I work to achieve with my own cash.

2. New is exactly that - not crashed, bashed or thrashed by a previous owner(s).

3. The 911 is my ultimate Dream Car (it has been since I can remember) and the thought of achieving one, new and out the wrapper, is an achievement for me. It would be something for me to cherish for a long, long time and therefore would have no real intrinsic value unless hardship fell really badly and I was forced to sell. Then you take what you can get...

Somethings in life are sensibly bought second-user, others new. I suppose it comes down to "you pays your money".

If financial prudence was needed here, I should really keep the VW !!

FWIW - I have been through really hard times with two kids and no real income to do anything with other than survive and got through it. Now I can afford to relax a little and enjoy the better times.

Why not ?

I've not driven a 911 or an M3, but from what I've read, the 911 is more rewarding. Straightline performance numbers may be similar, but it's not just about that. In your position I'd look at a 993 or 996 Carrera. Due to the weight distribution of the rear-engined porsche, some find that they cannot get on with the steering/handling characteristics. Test drive essential.

The diesel question is one that we've discussed here before. The modern diesel offers superb real world performance, with low/mid range torque that generally eclipses the petrol versions. Peak power is not normally as good as the petrol engine, but in normal driving it's torque that counts. In many cases, the diesel version could produce even more torque but has to be limited to save the transmission. You do, however, notice superior throttle response in the petrol engined cars, more direct, more sensitive. I would personally forego the extra low rpm diesel performance in preference to the purer response of the petrol engine, but it really does depend on the individual.

Surely a diesel 911? Only jerkin'. She's dead right and clearly a wonderful woman. Go straight to 911uk.com, read up what to look out for and congratulations in advance.

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not crashed, bashed or thrashed by a previous owner(s).

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well, a 6-12 month old factory approved car is unlikely to be any of those either.

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3. The 911 is my ultimate Dream Car (it has been since I can remember) and the thought of achieving one, new and out the wrapper, is an achievement for me. It would be something for me to cherish for a long, long time and therefore would have no real intrinsic value unless hardship fell really badly and I was forced to sell.

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far better reason that. There's nothing quite like achieving one of your life's ambitions.

I still prefer the used option though - that way I can spend the depreciation money that I've 'saved' on hi-fi bits

True Brian and I agree, but remember the diesels you refer to are expensively blown. Remember the awful N/A R8 218D that John Houldcroft used to drive? Do the same with petrols and you get similar/more torque, but with better response, power and refinement. And, if you gear a turbo petrol similar to a diesel (or longer, taking into account the extra performance), the fuel economy gap lessens.

Rana

Oh well, 911 it is then. Glad that's sorted

Cheers

Harry

The 330 is RWD, 50:50 weight distribution, 4 seater, 0-100km/h in under 6 seconds. How many other cars offer this combination?

If you appreciate the virtues of RWD, a FWD like a Alfa GT (no matter how well sorted out) is simply not quite the same thing.

Cheers,
Tze