BMW 330Ci Sport Coupe

If you go for the Porsche, don't forget to allow in your budget for the regular re-sprays after "keying".

If you are used to the anonymity of a Golf, the attention these fancy cars get is going to come as a shock.

Or perhaps Glasgow's changed a lot since I lived there.

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In many cases, the diesel version could produce even more torque but has to be limited to save the transmission.

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Yes, my dealer told me that the 535d only comes with an self-shifter as they don't have a manual which can handle the torque. I'm no techie and couldn't understand the logic of why a manual wouldn't be more up to the job; unsurprisingly the dealer also couldn't explain why. You're right of course in that the diesel thing is down to taste.

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if you gear a turbo petrol similar to a diesel (or longer, taking into account the extra performance), the fuel economy gap lessens.

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Sounds like a good idea Rana. If you could get the high revs appeal of the petrol and the diesel's low and mid range strength, why don't they just do this? Is this what they've done with the VAG TFSi?

Also, without wanting to open the Finbar Saunders floodgates, what's the deal with being expensively blown.

I'm no techie so I'd be grateful if please keep it simple.

fnar fnar

Not sure if I'd have the sport package - (1) because the larger wheels on my 525d tramline quite badly sometimes (2) the MV alloys look a nightmare to keep clean

but if I didn't have kids I'd have a ci with the biggest engine I could. It must be worth having a testdrive of the 330d as well as the 330i - particularly as you have a diesel already and changing back to a revvy petrol would be a big change

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The modern diesel offers superb real world performance, with low/mid range torque that generally eclipses the petrol versions. Peak power is not normally as good as the petrol engine, but in normal driving it's torque that counts. In many cases, the diesel version could produce even more torque but has to be limited to save the transmission.

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I'm not convinced by this. When I changed my Impreza 3 years ago I tested a 330d, which acording to the books had more mid range torque than the impreza. Well the 330 wasn't even on the same planet perfomance wise as the inmpreza never mind the same ball park, overall a very dull drive (I was very dissapointed). I also tested the 330Ci which was somewhat better though still relatively dull and a step behind the Impreza.

I think you have to compare like-with-like:

330d Saloon 0-100km/h 7.2secs 80-120km/h 6.1sec, Vmax 242km/h
330i Saloon 0-100km/h 6.5secs 80-120km/h 6.9sec, Vmax 250km/h

Using high rpm, petrol wins. At low/mid rpm diesel wins.

Most drivers use low/mid rpm most of the time.

FWIW - I don't want an Imprezza, Evo, Halfords Chav Car etc...........

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330d 80-120km/h 6.1sec
330i 80-120km/h 6.9sec

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in what gear???

ok, a bit of searching found the following:

330ci 80-120km/h done properly: 5.1sec.

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Originally posted by John Sheridan:

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330d 80-120km/h 6.1sec
330i 80-120km/h 6.9sec

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in what gear???

ok, a bit of searching found the following:

330ci 80-120km/h done properly: 5.1sec.

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In 4th gear.
In 4th gear with a 75kg driver.
I appreciate that the driver wasn't you, so you probably won't believe the results, but 80-120km/h in 4th gear is an industry wide measure of in-gear flexibility. Some people might use 5th gear, some might use 3rd gear. For those who know, it indicates the low/mid range engine performance in specific installations.

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I appreciate that the driver wasn't you, so you probably won't believe the results

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oh I believe the results all right but the point is that most people doing 80-120 in the real world will be in 3rd. Naturally a diesel is going to be stronger in the bottom end - that's all they have going for them.

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Originally posted by John Sheridan:
most people doing 80-120 in the real world will be in 3rd.

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Not me. I won't even be in 4th gear, but in the top gear, whether that be 5th or 6th. I hate high revs, make me nervous.

Oh, and most cars won't even do 120 in 3rd.

Hy there!benefit of that bmw against nearby all
other cars in that price class:
nearby no competitor has a rear wheel drive.
If you go for a high motorized car this is a
must.
Benefit of a diesel ist today:It needs alittle bit less then the gasolin model.(diesel/gasoline price is nearby the same or willbe in the neare future.

If i would go for a "sportcoupe" gasolin version would be my first choice.
of course you can be laizier in a diesel concerning the gearshifting but why then to go for asportscar?
Bmw chassis is excellent.

golf benefits are:lower price,available with four doors and a rear door (rear door also available if you go for bmw compact.)
better to drive on snow and mountains.
Golf needs less parking place!
(but bmw compact is also alittle bit shorter
than the normal bmw coupe.)

imo the only two competitor to bmw 3er coupes
are the mazda rx8 and the new mustang 2005(not driven until now but first car on my wishlist at the moment). I cannot agree on alfas and other front driven coupes that are imo only refined ,or better designt Golfs.
O.J.(corvette,lupo,and cadillac driver.)

Marcus, they were talking in km's ;-)

Ooops, sorry. But I would be in 5th at 80 km/h, too.

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Naturally a diesel is going to be stronger in the bottom end - that's all they have going for them.

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That's the kind of comment that I used to make before I actually spent any time driving a diesel and it is of course completely wrong. BMW's own figures say so, most BMW reviews say so and in my experience, roughly 400,000 miles in 3 litre BMW petrols and just over 100,000 in the diesel, the diesel is the faster, more responsive, more relaxing drive, not just at the bottom end but at 30, 50 70, 100 and 130 mph. I've never taken it faster but it slingshots effortlessly at all points, roughly 2000rpm at 70, and I'm reliably informed that the surge is consistent right up to the 150mph mark. The petrol is faster off the mark and for the first few seconds and I can see the argument the throttle is more responsive.

It is, as already stated, a matter of taste, but in the UK 99% of driving is stop start, twisting roads, overtaking and busy motorways at between 30 and 90 mph, where a strong low and mid range is needed and IMO the diesel performance is superior in these conditions.

I still hope he's going for the 911.

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if you gear a turbo petrol similar to a diesel (or longer, taking into account the extra performance), the fuel economy gap lessens.

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[/QUOTE] Sounds like a good idea Rana. If you could get the high revs appeal of the petrol and the diesel's low and mid range strength, why don't they just do this? Is this what they've done with the VAG TFSi?

Also, without wanting to open the Finbar Saunders floodgates, what's the deal with being expensively blown.

I'm no techie so I'd be grateful if please keep it simple.[/QUOTE]

Hi Mick

It think a high geared turbo-petrol is good idea and I would have liked to have developed the concept further, but I suspect the marketing of such a car would be too novel for most manufacturers (not for BMW or Honda BTW). I'm not too familiar with the VW TFSi as a diesel alternative, has that been engine used outside the GTi?

By "expensively blown" I was commenting on Brian's comparison of a non-turbo petrol to a turbo diesel. A "blown" engine is one that has a turbocharger or mechanically driven supercharger to get more air into the cylinders, so it acts like a bigger engine without the frictional limitations. The "expensive" bit refers to the cost of turbochargers and all the unique piping, manifolding, heatshields, and other paraphenalia associated with installing a turbo over a normal engine. Having said that, BMW's petrol valvetronic engines probably cost a bit more than the normal industry benchmarks.

Rana

Cheers for that info Rana. Yeah a performance medium-sized petrol with the low and mid range shove of the diesel would be very nice. The new VAG engine is now out in that Audi A3 Sportback thingy and soon in the new A4. The figures are impressive with something like 200bhp and over 200lbs/ft from some very low rev floor. Pretty impressive figures from a 2litre.

Back !

Some really nice viewpoints being out across on a variety of things.

Decision has been made.

I am waiting to see both the new 335d and 911.

At this time I will make my decision. It will either be a new 335d, a used M3 or a used 911. My thoughts are already edging towards the 911. I have a test drive booked for the weekend.........

LTD - this appears to be a high class problem!

Please do let us know how you get on at the weekend and where your heart and wallet is leading....

Purely personal but in your position I'd be driving a 911 next week - and this from a BMW cheerleader! What a wonderful problem to have to solve! Have fun.

Cheers

Harry

I am sure that I will have a lot of fun in any case, but like all things good, you gotta do the dem and decide for yourself !

Will report later.....

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Originally posted by Markus Sauer:
Ooops, sorry. But I would be in 5th at 80 km/h, too.

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perhaps I should have said anyone who knows how to drive a manual properly.

M 3 is alot easier to drive than a911.
depends on the bad weight relation front to rear of 911.
the reason why the name of the double le mans
winner of this year was again Chevrolet corvette.perfect 50/50 weight distribution.
M3 is also more comfortable,a lot cheaper,and a lot easier to get out and in than in 911.
And i f you realy want to drive a 911 as hard
as a real race car(like its look promises to the user) you have to pay first 7000euros for
ceramic breakes extra,otherwise you will have abreaking problem in a few minutes(maybe the same with an m3 but who wants to drive such a car that hard? )And yes:no one can deny that a911 looks realy sexy,and is very prestigous.
M3 looks more like understatement(tho those that ar e not involved that much in car- Fever)
And maybe your mate will never find out that you are that rich that you can afford a car
thats nearby two and ahalf price of an entrance
3er bmw.
O.J.

Thanks for the sentiments o.j. but ultimate technicalities are totally lost in and around Glasgow as far as high-performance motoring goes........

If I wanted the ultimate in performance, weight distribution, etc. etc. then I would opt for a Japanese race-spec motorcycle that would hurtle me from zero to death almost instantly.

For me the option of a 911 (albeit used) is one of my life long ambitions. Until I considered a 330, I never realised that it could be viable.......

I didn't marry Daisy Duke and I don't live in a castle in the air but I might manage one of the other things a kid only dreamt of.....
a 911.

But is one out of three regarded as failure these days ???????

Hi Mick

Continuing along the sidetrack (sorry L-T-D)....don't like blowing my own trumpet but the RS Megane's 225bhp, max 224 lb/ft (of which most is available from 1700 rpm), 0-60 in 6.2s, 209g/100km CO2 from a 2.0 litre give VW's TFSi a run for its money. These stated numbers are all conservative by the way, unlike the numbers game employed by many (mostly Japanese) companies for European homologation - but that's another story which I will avoid for now!

Bye

Rana