Healthcare in the UK
Posted by: Justin on 14 July 2004
Folks,
I read and hear from prepubescent medical students in the US who are scared shitless of universal heathcare that countries that have such a system are in shambles. One person said that she had to wait years to have her tonsils removed.
I tend not to believe a word of it, given that you all seem a happy lot and, in any event, your enjoyment of healtcare seems every bit as technologically advanced and proficient as that in the US.
But I want the truth. For those who live in the UK (and Canada), what has been your experience?
By way of comparison (in case you don't know), in the US a typical course of treatment for chronic tonselitus would look something like this for a person with private insurance:
January 1: Call to make an appointment with primary care physician for sore throat. Because it is an accute condition with possible bacterial infection, appointment would be scheduled for same day or next day. Say 2:00pm next day.
January 2: Arrive at 2:00pm and wait for 45 minutes to be called back into examination room. Wait additional 15 minutes in exam room. Doctor comes in, looks at throat, ears, etc. declares tonselitus and infection. Prescribed antibiotics. Then looks in chart and notices this is 7th time in two years for the same complaint. Suggests tonselectomy and writes referal to see ENT.
On checkout patient presents his insurance card, pays "co-pay" (average about $25 for an office visit). Insurance company will be charged $90 for the visit. They will "write it down" to $67, subtract the $25 patient just paid as the "co-pay" and pay the doc $42.
The patient goes to the drug store (pharmacy), waits 20 minutes for the scrip to be filled and pays about $10 for the anti-biotics (because it is generic and/or common).
Patients calls ENT's office and schedules earliest consultation for 45 days out.
Feb. 17: Patient arrives at ENT's office at scheduled time and waits 45 minutes to be called back to exam room. ENT prescribes tonselectomy and schedules it three weeks out at the local outpatient surgery center. Patient pays $25 copay.
March 6: Have surgery. Outpatient surgery center bills private insurance $1400 for use of the surgical suite, nursing staff and recovery supplies. Insurance "writes it down" to $650. ENT bills seperately for the surgery and bills insurance company $900 for the procedure. Insurance company "writes it down" to $450. As is typical, the patient has an "80/20" plan with a $250 deductible. Hence, the insurance company pays (in total) ($650 + 450 - $250)x.80 = $680. The surgery center (or ENT) charges the patient the addition $250 "deductible" and the 20%.
After all is said and done, it took about 2 months (give or take) to have her tonsils removed and cost her about $470.
Walk me through how this might go in the UK.
judd
I read and hear from prepubescent medical students in the US who are scared shitless of universal heathcare that countries that have such a system are in shambles. One person said that she had to wait years to have her tonsils removed.
I tend not to believe a word of it, given that you all seem a happy lot and, in any event, your enjoyment of healtcare seems every bit as technologically advanced and proficient as that in the US.
But I want the truth. For those who live in the UK (and Canada), what has been your experience?
By way of comparison (in case you don't know), in the US a typical course of treatment for chronic tonselitus would look something like this for a person with private insurance:
January 1: Call to make an appointment with primary care physician for sore throat. Because it is an accute condition with possible bacterial infection, appointment would be scheduled for same day or next day. Say 2:00pm next day.
January 2: Arrive at 2:00pm and wait for 45 minutes to be called back into examination room. Wait additional 15 minutes in exam room. Doctor comes in, looks at throat, ears, etc. declares tonselitus and infection. Prescribed antibiotics. Then looks in chart and notices this is 7th time in two years for the same complaint. Suggests tonselectomy and writes referal to see ENT.
On checkout patient presents his insurance card, pays "co-pay" (average about $25 for an office visit). Insurance company will be charged $90 for the visit. They will "write it down" to $67, subtract the $25 patient just paid as the "co-pay" and pay the doc $42.
The patient goes to the drug store (pharmacy), waits 20 minutes for the scrip to be filled and pays about $10 for the anti-biotics (because it is generic and/or common).
Patients calls ENT's office and schedules earliest consultation for 45 days out.
Feb. 17: Patient arrives at ENT's office at scheduled time and waits 45 minutes to be called back to exam room. ENT prescribes tonselectomy and schedules it three weeks out at the local outpatient surgery center. Patient pays $25 copay.
March 6: Have surgery. Outpatient surgery center bills private insurance $1400 for use of the surgical suite, nursing staff and recovery supplies. Insurance "writes it down" to $650. ENT bills seperately for the surgery and bills insurance company $900 for the procedure. Insurance company "writes it down" to $450. As is typical, the patient has an "80/20" plan with a $250 deductible. Hence, the insurance company pays (in total) ($650 + 450 - $250)x.80 = $680. The surgery center (or ENT) charges the patient the addition $250 "deductible" and the 20%.
After all is said and done, it took about 2 months (give or take) to have her tonsils removed and cost her about $470.
Walk me through how this might go in the UK.
judd
Many East Europeans and former soviet blockers work full time on no pay running essential services, their only bonus being some kind of future basic pension, and some free health care.
Fritz Von Wouldn'tyoutoo ?
Fritz Von Wouldn'tyoutoo ?
Well I never, such bickering in pubic, maybe you should have argued it out on
the pants thread, as our Mat quite rightly said stick t'theme like !
Talking of Cricket; no seriously that coloured telly comment reminded me of an
old school mate Steve Hatter who played for Fulham, and in his early career had
to undergo knee surgery, which as we all know can be problematic for such a
proffesion, innit. He landed in Westminster hospital (79)(private & naturally paid
for by the club), and as well as us being well inpressed by the colour telly
hanging off the wall, and the view etc, etc, the nusres & Docs were also NHS
staff, doing bits on the side as it were.
Steve's dad told us that the place cost
400 Squid a day, which after private profits aside, was ploughed back into the
National System, but also maintaining the quality staff for the rest of us, when
they did their commoner day job so to speak.
If International aircraft & trains
did not have business/1st Class facilities, less dosh would be made, and as we
know in the real world of money grabbin, profit always comes first, however one
may like to disguise it in political terms ? I recall our Mat's mate's in the
States going quiet when there was any suggestion of that devilish plot
"Socialism" after he proudly (quite rightly) told them about his free insulin.
Fritz Von Irestmycasecosit'sfuckingheavy
the pants thread, as our Mat quite rightly said stick t'theme like !
Talking of Cricket; no seriously that coloured telly comment reminded me of an
old school mate Steve Hatter who played for Fulham, and in his early career had
to undergo knee surgery, which as we all know can be problematic for such a
proffesion, innit. He landed in Westminster hospital (79)(private & naturally paid
for by the club), and as well as us being well inpressed by the colour telly
hanging off the wall, and the view etc, etc, the nusres & Docs were also NHS
staff, doing bits on the side as it were.
Steve's dad told us that the place cost
400 Squid a day, which after private profits aside, was ploughed back into the
National System, but also maintaining the quality staff for the rest of us, when
they did their commoner day job so to speak.
If International aircraft & trains
did not have business/1st Class facilities, less dosh would be made, and as we
know in the real world of money grabbin, profit always comes first, however one
may like to disguise it in political terms ? I recall our Mat's mate's in the
States going quiet when there was any suggestion of that devilish plot
"Socialism" after he proudly (quite rightly) told them about his free insulin.
Fritz Von Irestmycasecosit'sfuckingheavy
For every example, there is a counter example. The Diabetes department in charge of my care is run my one Professor Yubin who is, literally, one of the very top diabetic experts in the world.
Matthew
PS Last night my NHS supplied meter record a new personal best:
1.9 mmol/L is like nearly dead! </melodrama>
Matthew
PS Last night my NHS supplied meter record a new personal best:
1.9 mmol/L is like nearly dead! </melodrama>
quote:
Here in Europe (West) it's basically normal for a woman to stay in hospital for 5-7 days after giving birth for general well being and unforeseen problems as well as giving her confidence etc, etc. In UK my sister recently was privelaged to enjoy just under 24 hours at London's King Georges
But that just panders to the view that pregnancy is an illness - which it isn't
There's no need for anyone whose undergone a perfectly natural process to have an extended stay in hospital for it.
Andy.
quote:
Originally posted by Andrew L. Weekes:quote:
Here in Europe (West) it's basically normal for a woman to stay in hospital for 5-7 days after giving birth for general well being and unforeseen problems as well as giving her confidence etc, etc. In UK my sister recently was privelaged to enjoy just under 24 hours at London's King Georges
But that just panders to the view that pregnancy is an illness - which it isn't
There's no need for anyone whose undergone a perfectly natural process to have an extended stay in hospital for it.
Andy.
This I happen to agree with. My wife just gave birth to our new daughter the thursday before last via C-section (with a few other complications as well) and stayed in the hospital until Sunday - which for her was plenty of time. However, the women in the next room over had delivered vaginally, was up and walking later that same day and did not leave the hospital until Saturday night. That's roughly 3 days in the hospital for a vaginal delivery which is simply too long. Why? Because her insurance company paid for it. And while just about ALL of our hospitals in the US are supposed to be "non-profit", the goal is to get from private insurance whatever they will pay. This is why an Motrin (ibuprofin) tablet in the Hospital is $18. (no kidding??)
We have some enormous inefficiencies due to the following: Those in the US who consume medical care are NOT the same ones who pay for it. This leads to a breakdown in the system that evaluated "value" and "opportunity costs" and leads to people, for instance, who think nothing of staying three days in the hospital for a vaginal delivery. They would saty 24 hours if they had to participate in a meaningful way in the cost of that stay (other than once yearly when they choose premiums).
It is my impression that a socialized system improves on this in that even though there is an even greater disconnect between consumption of medical care and having to pay for it directly, the government tightly controls controls consumption so as to keep it manageable. Whether US taxpayers who CAN afford whatever care they wish to consume would tolerate those conditions, I have no clue. I suspect some would and some would not.
Judd
Re above comments etc:
It does seem a long time to me as well, and Caesarian birth, obviously not being a natural process either, is carried out in a high percentage of cases for purely egoistic and cosmetic reasons, not unsimilar to breast enhancement, ie she remains tight for her husband, career and future partners, sorry, but true.
Fritz Von Beverlyhills:
P.s. Giving birth was just one off the cuff example of the many NHS tasks, maybe something else would be more suitable ? e.g. Hip replacements, Tonsilectomy's etc, etc, & chemo-t naturally and all of its associated niceties.
P.P.S. I would imagine from a worn out poor woman's point of view, many will relish the thought of e week chillin out, without other family stress & father & kids around them ?
It does seem a long time to me as well, and Caesarian birth, obviously not being a natural process either, is carried out in a high percentage of cases for purely egoistic and cosmetic reasons, not unsimilar to breast enhancement, ie she remains tight for her husband, career and future partners, sorry, but true.
Fritz Von Beverlyhills:
P.s. Giving birth was just one off the cuff example of the many NHS tasks, maybe something else would be more suitable ? e.g. Hip replacements, Tonsilectomy's etc, etc, & chemo-t naturally and all of its associated niceties.
P.P.S. I would imagine from a worn out poor woman's point of view, many will relish the thought of e week chillin out, without other family stress & father & kids around them ?
Harley Street has been World famous for a good century plus I believe, and I would imagine many specialists there also on occassion treat NHS patients passed onto them through the system, as with Gt Ormand st (chidren) and Moorfields (ex?) eye hosptal, etc, etc. British patients (NHS) get treated regularly by world specialists in other parts of Europe, as do many European's visiting UK, as with students (medical or otherwise) agreements have often been very successfull, even in the Cold War era Russian & East German specialists treated Western ´last hope sufferers, not good politics you understand, Maggie would have hated the publicity, though the €1 Billion yearly trade with the GDR (which in UK eyes officially didn't exist don't forget) was very welcome in the guise of coal & steel, wasn't it, hypocracy at its finest.
Standards must be maintained at a high level, and as a previous thread implied, asking a present Consultant about their experience may well give one an unpleasant suprise, especially if you're on the sharp end as it were!
Fritz Von Twaddle³
Standards must be maintained at a high level, and as a previous thread implied, asking a present Consultant about their experience may well give one an unpleasant suprise, especially if you're on the sharp end as it were!
Fritz Von Twaddle³
quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
"Mathew, it's naturally excellent that you get yer insulin for nowt, I hope
that applies to all in UK though irresspective of their means"
Er, that's kind of the whole point. And my name is Ma_tt_hew by the way.
Not only that, Matthew gets all of his prescriptions free, not just those drugs required to treat diabetes. For example if you and he develop asthma and needs inhalers every month, his prescriptions will be free, but yours won't.
Anyone care to explain the sense in that?
