Healthcare in the UK
Posted by: Justin on 14 July 2004
Folks,
I read and hear from prepubescent medical students in the US who are scared shitless of universal heathcare that countries that have such a system are in shambles. One person said that she had to wait years to have her tonsils removed.
I tend not to believe a word of it, given that you all seem a happy lot and, in any event, your enjoyment of healtcare seems every bit as technologically advanced and proficient as that in the US.
But I want the truth. For those who live in the UK (and Canada), what has been your experience?
By way of comparison (in case you don't know), in the US a typical course of treatment for chronic tonselitus would look something like this for a person with private insurance:
January 1: Call to make an appointment with primary care physician for sore throat. Because it is an accute condition with possible bacterial infection, appointment would be scheduled for same day or next day. Say 2:00pm next day.
January 2: Arrive at 2:00pm and wait for 45 minutes to be called back into examination room. Wait additional 15 minutes in exam room. Doctor comes in, looks at throat, ears, etc. declares tonselitus and infection. Prescribed antibiotics. Then looks in chart and notices this is 7th time in two years for the same complaint. Suggests tonselectomy and writes referal to see ENT.
On checkout patient presents his insurance card, pays "co-pay" (average about $25 for an office visit). Insurance company will be charged $90 for the visit. They will "write it down" to $67, subtract the $25 patient just paid as the "co-pay" and pay the doc $42.
The patient goes to the drug store (pharmacy), waits 20 minutes for the scrip to be filled and pays about $10 for the anti-biotics (because it is generic and/or common).
Patients calls ENT's office and schedules earliest consultation for 45 days out.
Feb. 17: Patient arrives at ENT's office at scheduled time and waits 45 minutes to be called back to exam room. ENT prescribes tonselectomy and schedules it three weeks out at the local outpatient surgery center. Patient pays $25 copay.
March 6: Have surgery. Outpatient surgery center bills private insurance $1400 for use of the surgical suite, nursing staff and recovery supplies. Insurance "writes it down" to $650. ENT bills seperately for the surgery and bills insurance company $900 for the procedure. Insurance company "writes it down" to $450. As is typical, the patient has an "80/20" plan with a $250 deductible. Hence, the insurance company pays (in total) ($650 + 450 - $250)x.80 = $680. The surgery center (or ENT) charges the patient the addition $250 "deductible" and the 20%.
After all is said and done, it took about 2 months (give or take) to have her tonsils removed and cost her about $470.
Walk me through how this might go in the UK.
judd
I read and hear from prepubescent medical students in the US who are scared shitless of universal heathcare that countries that have such a system are in shambles. One person said that she had to wait years to have her tonsils removed.
I tend not to believe a word of it, given that you all seem a happy lot and, in any event, your enjoyment of healtcare seems every bit as technologically advanced and proficient as that in the US.
But I want the truth. For those who live in the UK (and Canada), what has been your experience?
By way of comparison (in case you don't know), in the US a typical course of treatment for chronic tonselitus would look something like this for a person with private insurance:
January 1: Call to make an appointment with primary care physician for sore throat. Because it is an accute condition with possible bacterial infection, appointment would be scheduled for same day or next day. Say 2:00pm next day.
January 2: Arrive at 2:00pm and wait for 45 minutes to be called back into examination room. Wait additional 15 minutes in exam room. Doctor comes in, looks at throat, ears, etc. declares tonselitus and infection. Prescribed antibiotics. Then looks in chart and notices this is 7th time in two years for the same complaint. Suggests tonselectomy and writes referal to see ENT.
On checkout patient presents his insurance card, pays "co-pay" (average about $25 for an office visit). Insurance company will be charged $90 for the visit. They will "write it down" to $67, subtract the $25 patient just paid as the "co-pay" and pay the doc $42.
The patient goes to the drug store (pharmacy), waits 20 minutes for the scrip to be filled and pays about $10 for the anti-biotics (because it is generic and/or common).
Patients calls ENT's office and schedules earliest consultation for 45 days out.
Feb. 17: Patient arrives at ENT's office at scheduled time and waits 45 minutes to be called back to exam room. ENT prescribes tonselectomy and schedules it three weeks out at the local outpatient surgery center. Patient pays $25 copay.
March 6: Have surgery. Outpatient surgery center bills private insurance $1400 for use of the surgical suite, nursing staff and recovery supplies. Insurance "writes it down" to $650. ENT bills seperately for the surgery and bills insurance company $900 for the procedure. Insurance company "writes it down" to $450. As is typical, the patient has an "80/20" plan with a $250 deductible. Hence, the insurance company pays (in total) ($650 + 450 - $250)x.80 = $680. The surgery center (or ENT) charges the patient the addition $250 "deductible" and the 20%.
After all is said and done, it took about 2 months (give or take) to have her tonsils removed and cost her about $470.
Walk me through how this might go in the UK.
judd
Would any of you previous thread contributors who are obviously more in the know
than most of us, care to comment or opine on this latest article, on wether it
is at all accurate, shows a true picture of present healthcare in UK, or is just
journalistic opportunism & babble ?
According to one source at the department of health, "New" Labour's flagship
health reform, shifting The Balance Of Power, is nicknamed Shifting The Blame
to Other People. This would be fair enough if hospitals and primary care trusts
(PCT's) had the freedom to make their own mistakes; but for all the promises of
devolution and autonomy, political interference in local NHS decisions is still
rife.
PCT's are supposedly free to do their own commissioning on behalf of
patients. But what if their decisions go against the governments desire to
attract private contractors into the NHS? Non - executive directors at South
West Oxfordshire PCT claim they have recieved threats and inappropiate pressure
from Thames Valley strategic health authority and Whitehall. Their crime has
been to reject the services of a mobile opthalmic treatment centre, owned by the
private South African firm Netcare UK, and their punishment would be a
"surcharge" if the deal fell through as a result.
The PCT chair Professor Brian
Avis and non - executive director Jane Hanna have now quit their posts, an
inxcreasingly common scenario, according to Dr Michael Dixon of the NHS
alliance. "Some PCT's are talking privately about coercion and outright bullying
by their strategic health authorities. SHA's appear to misunderstand the
difference between performance management, which is their role, and instructing
how services should be commissioned and provided, which is not."
Alas, the
perfomance management system itself is flawed and simplistic, with PCT's and
hospitals suffering hugely with the drop of a star. MD recently gave a speech at
the two - star East Sussex Hospitals NHS Trust, where the patient care is often
excellent, and yet a failure to balance the books means that this year it may
not get any stars at all. This is also true of MD's three nearest trusts in
Bristol and Bath. None has a star, all are in debt and all have some truly
excellent services. To survive, they need to attract custom under the new
Payment By Results scheme, and yet some patients refuse to go them because of
the lack of stars.
Even more absurd is the knock - on effect of a lost star. The
Royal National Orthopaedic hospital (RNOH) is currently under investigation for
allegedly fixing its waiting list. Like all hospitals, it is under huge central
pressure to hit its targets, gain three stars and become a foundation trust. If
the fiddling charges stick, it will end up with none. However, the RNOH is a
specialist centre and 75 PCT's commission from it nationwide. One of the nine
key targets for the PCT star ratings is to ensure no patient breaches the
waiting list times. So many of the PCT's who sent patients to the RNOH could
also lose a star, even if they had no control over the fiddling. Everyone gets
blamed ans punished - well, everyone apart from the ministers who implimented
the idiotically simplistic star system in the first place.
Other PCT's may soon
cease to exist irrespective of their star ratings. Hampshire and Isle of Wight
SHA (£9.2m in the red last year) is considering merging its seven PCT's into
three "clusters" to ensure "focus on targets and sustainability". Other SHA's
are considering similar upheavals, making a mockery of local decision - making.
PCT's will merge and become as detached from the frontline as the health
authorities they replaced.
PCT's have enough on their plate without the threat of
further reorganisation. Balancing the ruthless "rewards and penalties" of the
government's reforms with the needs of patients and stress levels of NHS staff
is a near impossible task. As Bob Ricketts, the DoH's head of NHS "capacity,
plurality and choice" (sic), told a recent conference: "I wouldn't want to be
working in a PCT in the next two years."
Taken From "Doing The Rounds" "MD" Current issue of P.Eye. 23.07.04. (Steam
Powered offline issue, ie, a lot of typing, innit)
Fritz von Nightingale ?
than most of us, care to comment or opine on this latest article, on wether it
is at all accurate, shows a true picture of present healthcare in UK, or is just
journalistic opportunism & babble ?
According to one source at the department of health, "New" Labour's flagship
health reform, shifting The Balance Of Power, is nicknamed Shifting The Blame
to Other People. This would be fair enough if hospitals and primary care trusts
(PCT's) had the freedom to make their own mistakes; but for all the promises of
devolution and autonomy, political interference in local NHS decisions is still
rife.
PCT's are supposedly free to do their own commissioning on behalf of
patients. But what if their decisions go against the governments desire to
attract private contractors into the NHS? Non - executive directors at South
West Oxfordshire PCT claim they have recieved threats and inappropiate pressure
from Thames Valley strategic health authority and Whitehall. Their crime has
been to reject the services of a mobile opthalmic treatment centre, owned by the
private South African firm Netcare UK, and their punishment would be a
"surcharge" if the deal fell through as a result.
The PCT chair Professor Brian
Avis and non - executive director Jane Hanna have now quit their posts, an
inxcreasingly common scenario, according to Dr Michael Dixon of the NHS
alliance. "Some PCT's are talking privately about coercion and outright bullying
by their strategic health authorities. SHA's appear to misunderstand the
difference between performance management, which is their role, and instructing
how services should be commissioned and provided, which is not."
Alas, the
perfomance management system itself is flawed and simplistic, with PCT's and
hospitals suffering hugely with the drop of a star. MD recently gave a speech at
the two - star East Sussex Hospitals NHS Trust, where the patient care is often
excellent, and yet a failure to balance the books means that this year it may
not get any stars at all. This is also true of MD's three nearest trusts in
Bristol and Bath. None has a star, all are in debt and all have some truly
excellent services. To survive, they need to attract custom under the new
Payment By Results scheme, and yet some patients refuse to go them because of
the lack of stars.
Even more absurd is the knock - on effect of a lost star. The
Royal National Orthopaedic hospital (RNOH) is currently under investigation for
allegedly fixing its waiting list. Like all hospitals, it is under huge central
pressure to hit its targets, gain three stars and become a foundation trust. If
the fiddling charges stick, it will end up with none. However, the RNOH is a
specialist centre and 75 PCT's commission from it nationwide. One of the nine
key targets for the PCT star ratings is to ensure no patient breaches the
waiting list times. So many of the PCT's who sent patients to the RNOH could
also lose a star, even if they had no control over the fiddling. Everyone gets
blamed ans punished - well, everyone apart from the ministers who implimented
the idiotically simplistic star system in the first place.
Other PCT's may soon
cease to exist irrespective of their star ratings. Hampshire and Isle of Wight
SHA (£9.2m in the red last year) is considering merging its seven PCT's into
three "clusters" to ensure "focus on targets and sustainability". Other SHA's
are considering similar upheavals, making a mockery of local decision - making.
PCT's will merge and become as detached from the frontline as the health
authorities they replaced.
PCT's have enough on their plate without the threat of
further reorganisation. Balancing the ruthless "rewards and penalties" of the
government's reforms with the needs of patients and stress levels of NHS staff
is a near impossible task. As Bob Ricketts, the DoH's head of NHS "capacity,
plurality and choice" (sic), told a recent conference: "I wouldn't want to be
working in a PCT in the next two years."
Taken From "Doing The Rounds" "MD" Current issue of P.Eye. 23.07.04. (Steam
Powered offline issue, ie, a lot of typing, innit)
Fritz von Nightingale ?
To maintain some semblence of balance (mainly for non British members who have
even the slightest bitn of interest in this thread ?)the following article
refers to Britain's largest "Private" Health Insurance Company BUPA "The
Personal Health Service," and is also taken from the current issue of the same
publication, namely Private Eye Magazine.
One member of staff has been sacked and two suspended over allegations
concerning the welfare of residents at Isard House, the BUPA care home in Kent
that was at the centre of the whistleblowing allegations of abuse and neglect
five years ago.
BUPA said the sacked care worker had failed to record details of
a fall suffered by an elderly resident and failed to alert the family.
Investigations were continuing. A source suggested that other allegations from
both staff and families were also being pursued, including issues of
medicationand nightcare, and that action against others may follow. The private
care giant told the "Eye" that the investigation was launched following
allegations from other staff members. "We take this matter extremely seriously
and are investigating thoroughly. We have informed the Commission for Social
Care Inspection and are working with them to impliment any improvements
necessary."Last week the CSCI said it was satisfied with the action BUPA was
taking and that none of the home's 66 residents were at risk. But two recent
CSCI reports have criticised a number of issues in the home, including the high
numbers of "incidents and accidents" involving residents: there were 29 accident
and emergency admissions over the past year. Many took place at night or early
morning and apparently were not witnessed.
The latest report also highlighted:
Poor staff training (only two percent of staff instead of 50 percent are
trained to NVQ level 2), particularly in relation to pressure care, epilepsy,
continence, nutrition, and diabetes.
Lack of adequate assessment of care and
needs - even for residents with serious conditions. Too few staff at weekends.
Some criminal records checks had not been done. The pooling into one bank
account of all the resident's money.
Eye redaers will recall that five years ago seven care workers at the home
revealed a catalogue of neglect and abuse in the high - dependancy unit. Old
people had been left in their own mess, had catheters overflowing, were roughly
handled and inappropiately drugged.
In October 2002 a coroner recorded an "open"
verdict on 83 - year - old Audrey Ford after hearing that she'd been taken to
Bromley Hospital rigid and suffering uncontrollable spasms - the side effects
of powerful anti - psychotic drugs that she had been given in the home. Her
daughter is pursuing claims that her mother was in appropiately medicated and
overdosed. Eileen Chubb, one of the whistleblowers who now runs a charity called
Compassion in Care, said she was horrified that five years down the line, there
were still concerns about Isard House.
BUPA recently gave lengthy evidence to the
Commons health committee investigating abuse of the elderly. It argued against
the introduction of any more regulations, claiming existing rules were adequate
to safeguard vulnerable people in care homes.
Fritz von Cuckoosnest:
Don't like it ? HARD LUCK INNIT: I don't either
even the slightest bitn of interest in this thread ?)the following article
refers to Britain's largest "Private" Health Insurance Company BUPA "The
Personal Health Service," and is also taken from the current issue of the same
publication, namely Private Eye Magazine.
One member of staff has been sacked and two suspended over allegations
concerning the welfare of residents at Isard House, the BUPA care home in Kent
that was at the centre of the whistleblowing allegations of abuse and neglect
five years ago.
BUPA said the sacked care worker had failed to record details of
a fall suffered by an elderly resident and failed to alert the family.
Investigations were continuing. A source suggested that other allegations from
both staff and families were also being pursued, including issues of
medicationand nightcare, and that action against others may follow. The private
care giant told the "Eye" that the investigation was launched following
allegations from other staff members. "We take this matter extremely seriously
and are investigating thoroughly. We have informed the Commission for Social
Care Inspection and are working with them to impliment any improvements
necessary."Last week the CSCI said it was satisfied with the action BUPA was
taking and that none of the home's 66 residents were at risk. But two recent
CSCI reports have criticised a number of issues in the home, including the high
numbers of "incidents and accidents" involving residents: there were 29 accident
and emergency admissions over the past year. Many took place at night or early
morning and apparently were not witnessed.
The latest report also highlighted:
Poor staff training (only two percent of staff instead of 50 percent are
trained to NVQ level 2), particularly in relation to pressure care, epilepsy,
continence, nutrition, and diabetes.
Lack of adequate assessment of care and
needs - even for residents with serious conditions. Too few staff at weekends.
Some criminal records checks had not been done. The pooling into one bank
account of all the resident's money.
Eye redaers will recall that five years ago seven care workers at the home
revealed a catalogue of neglect and abuse in the high - dependancy unit. Old
people had been left in their own mess, had catheters overflowing, were roughly
handled and inappropiately drugged.
In October 2002 a coroner recorded an "open"
verdict on 83 - year - old Audrey Ford after hearing that she'd been taken to
Bromley Hospital rigid and suffering uncontrollable spasms - the side effects
of powerful anti - psychotic drugs that she had been given in the home. Her
daughter is pursuing claims that her mother was in appropiately medicated and
overdosed. Eileen Chubb, one of the whistleblowers who now runs a charity called
Compassion in Care, said she was horrified that five years down the line, there
were still concerns about Isard House.
BUPA recently gave lengthy evidence to the
Commons health committee investigating abuse of the elderly. It argued against
the introduction of any more regulations, claiming existing rules were adequate
to safeguard vulnerable people in care homes.
Fritz von Cuckoosnest:
Don't like it ? HARD LUCK INNIT: I don't either
quote:
P.P.S. I would imagine from a worn out poor woman's point of view, many will relish the thought of e week chillin out, without other family stress & father & kids around them ?
Maybe some of us have moved on a bit from these attitudes, in a country where fathers now get paternity leave as a right
Anyway, some personal experience from this weekend...
I ended up in hospital on Saturday, with my 5 year old son after he fell hard the previous night onto his elbow. It looked pretty swollen the next day and he was playing on it, so I decided a check up was in order, just to make sure it wasn't fractured.
We didn't visit the most local hospital, since their Casualty dept. is very basic and there's no X-Ray dept at the weekend, so we went straight to the rather nice new (and PFI funded) hospital; little difference in travelling time. We booked in, via the reception, in a matter of minutes and were directed to the childrens casualty area.
Lewis was attended to in a matter of minutes by the triage nurse who was a model of how to deal with children. He was sent for X-Ray's, all of which were done within minutes of arrival at the Radiology dept., again with excellent communication with Lewis so he understood what was going on.
The longest wait was on return to the casualty dept, waiting for the locum to be free, I guess we waited about 20 minutes or so. Upon his arrival Lewis was again treated excellently, with a friendly attitude and the evidence of investment in IT technology etc was evident - the X-ray results being accessed via a computer and the internal network. Maybe basic stuff, but all very impressive compared to my previous experiences of casualty departments.
Lewis came away having found the experience almost enjoyable, certainly not scary and I came away with an overall feeling that the investment does appear to be having an effect.
Now I'm not stupid enough to realise that at different times of day (like Saturday night) the whole department is probably far more stretched, and that in other areas I'm sure there are problems and difficulties but the staff we met obviously enjoyed their job (or hid it well, if they didn't!), were models of efficiency, professionalism and good communication and it was a pretty enjoyable trip out, considering!
Andy.
Andy, I'm pleased naturally that you and your boy had a good result recently.
I'm not suggesting that PFI funded set-ups are bad (as they're brand new
generally) I'm saying that the way they are funded is crazy.
I compare the logic
of it to say poor low-income British mothers having to pay for their families
Christmas dinners etc, through to the following summer as kind company's like
Tesco, etc, etc, have given them credit cards to play with, to the logic of tens
of thousands of young Brits having to give up their newly bought houses on 100%
mortgages, as they miscalculated, and only repay interest forever, I compare it
to third World country's eternally repaying interest on loans to kind Western
country's and never getting the debt down a'la Boomtown Rats.
Your five year old,
as well as having a future private pension (only alternative)will inherit the
folly of this fiscal madness, under a Chancellor who looks Oh so very very good
? As a follow up the knackered young & older Mum's who enjoy a bit of a rest
here during post birth, have also enjoyed a long maternity break, as do their
partners (even when unemployed) for many years hence. Unlike in UK to co-incide
with Mr Brown's own newly born, the European model lasts for a full year, not a
few paltry months, with stress (not allowed by law) to be given by ones employer
in between, as it seems British firms are already getting up to (ask my sister).
Cheers, Fritz von Whenthebubnblebursts€urolandwillbelightyearsahead
P.S. Who do you suppose has been underwriting these massive British Government Loans,m George Dubya or Camelot ?
I'm not suggesting that PFI funded set-ups are bad (as they're brand new
generally) I'm saying that the way they are funded is crazy.
I compare the logic
of it to say poor low-income British mothers having to pay for their families
Christmas dinners etc, through to the following summer as kind company's like
Tesco, etc, etc, have given them credit cards to play with, to the logic of tens
of thousands of young Brits having to give up their newly bought houses on 100%
mortgages, as they miscalculated, and only repay interest forever, I compare it
to third World country's eternally repaying interest on loans to kind Western
country's and never getting the debt down a'la Boomtown Rats.
Your five year old,
as well as having a future private pension (only alternative)will inherit the
folly of this fiscal madness, under a Chancellor who looks Oh so very very good
? As a follow up the knackered young & older Mum's who enjoy a bit of a rest
here during post birth, have also enjoyed a long maternity break, as do their
partners (even when unemployed) for many years hence. Unlike in UK to co-incide
with Mr Brown's own newly born, the European model lasts for a full year, not a
few paltry months, with stress (not allowed by law) to be given by ones employer
in between, as it seems British firms are already getting up to (ask my sister).
Cheers, Fritz von Whenthebubnblebursts€urolandwillbelightyearsahead
P.S. Who do you suppose has been underwriting these massive British Government Loans,m George Dubya or Camelot ?
As of today it will be "technically" illegal for a British student/Junior Doctor
to work more than 58 hours a week. As far as I'm aware at least ? this
problem/situation has been going on for time immemorial within the NHS (please
no comments about jumping from private etc, & losing sleep; obvious innit, as
Tom wopuld say). As a layman it seems to me that without actually damaging the
quality of their training (or the lengh of it?) it can only be a good thing for
all concerned (because as with certain honourable members of this forum
believing²/ thinkíng that their country is the only & most important bit of
earth on the planet) Britain likwise is not the only country in the world to
provide a comprehensive and long established health system, so should therefore
on occassion look a little further than Watford for advice in respect of
seriously improving it's "allround - Medical" efficiency, and shove the spinning
financial manager's into immediate early retirement.
As with ten people
wittnessing an incident all with give different accounts of what they saw, and
eventually a compramise conclusion has to be arrived at by the law, surely a
similar compramise amognst Professional's (without political aspirations/ego)
can do the same, just give the buggers a gong later, and tell them how clever
they all are, so long as Granny get's her hip replaced within 3 months, and not
three years.
Fritz von Doctorswithouttacometers
P.S. I hear Damien Hurst is on a winner in London with his new meisterwerk
"Nappy in Fountain," Soooooo symbollocks, innit.
PPS Spinning Doctor's get very DIZZY and on occassion very Drunk too
to work more than 58 hours a week. As far as I'm aware at least ? this
problem/situation has been going on for time immemorial within the NHS (please
no comments about jumping from private etc, & losing sleep; obvious innit, as
Tom wopuld say). As a layman it seems to me that without actually damaging the
quality of their training (or the lengh of it?) it can only be a good thing for
all concerned (because as with certain honourable members of this forum
believing²/ thinkíng that their country is the only & most important bit of
earth on the planet) Britain likwise is not the only country in the world to
provide a comprehensive and long established health system, so should therefore
on occassion look a little further than Watford for advice in respect of
seriously improving it's "allround - Medical" efficiency, and shove the spinning
financial manager's into immediate early retirement.
As with ten people
wittnessing an incident all with give different accounts of what they saw, and
eventually a compramise conclusion has to be arrived at by the law, surely a
similar compramise amognst Professional's (without political aspirations/ego)
can do the same, just give the buggers a gong later, and tell them how clever
they all are, so long as Granny get's her hip replaced within 3 months, and not
three years.
Fritz von Doctorswithouttacometers
P.S. I hear Damien Hurst is on a winner in London with his new meisterwerk
"Nappy in Fountain," Soooooo symbollocks, innit.
PPS Spinning Doctor's get very DIZZY and on occassion very Drunk too
I recall the hysteria only last summer in France, or rather about the French,
coming from all quarters of the "thinking" world regarding all the deaths due to
the uncharacteristically hot weather, and the calling for the Health Minister's
head on a plate, I think we even had a thread on it here too didn't we ?
Well as England is enjoying very hot weather at present I wonder
who's to blame ? the weather men, or the Goverment ? Naturally we'll forget once
again all the young-middle aged homeless people who die on the streets in winter
because it's not good press, innit.
Fritz von Merrilymerrilymerrilymerrilylifeisbutadream innit:
coming from all quarters of the "thinking" world regarding all the deaths due to
the uncharacteristically hot weather, and the calling for the Health Minister's
head on a plate, I think we even had a thread on it here too didn't we ?
Well as England is enjoying very hot weather at present I wonder
who's to blame ? the weather men, or the Goverment ? Naturally we'll forget once
again all the young-middle aged homeless people who die on the streets in winter
because it's not good press, innit.
Fritz von Merrilymerrilymerrilymerrilylifeisbutadream innit:
A brillinat documentary on BBC World service radio last night about the World's Largest Industry, ie, Pharmaseutical's "No Free Lunch" check it out, if you're interested, you'll find it ?
Fritz Von You'vegottopickapocketortwo
Fritz Von You'vegottopickapocketortwo
What's the difference between all the uncharged unrepresented prisoners of now and previously at Guantanamo Bay ? and all the uncharged unrepresented prisoners of now and previously in Britain ?
The Weather !!!
Fritz Von Youwantyerpieandeatit
P.S. The difference in their respective health care would be interestinhg though, innit, and who pays for it ?
The Weather !!!
Fritz Von Youwantyerpieandeatit
P.S. The difference in their respective health care would be interestinhg though, innit, and who pays for it ?
Take it away Matthew old Son, Your department if I'm not mistooken Sir ?
Fritz Von Kildaire & Ganja
Fritz Von Kildaire & Ganja
I can quite understand him wanting to leave the USA, but one's being rather little-englanderiish isn't one ?
Fritz Von Atlanticain'twideenough
Community Chest comes to mind doesn't it Matt ?
[This message was edited by Berlin Fritz on Thu 05 August 2004 at 11:28.]
Fritz Von Atlanticain'twideenough
Community Chest comes to mind doesn't it Matt ?
[This message was edited by Berlin Fritz on Thu 05 August 2004 at 11:28.]
I was siiting talking to a very tasty 5th year Medical student last night from
Bavaria who was well impressed with the new British news that trainee Doctors
can't/mustn't "theoretically" work longer than 58 hours a week. She does on
average 70 a week, and is knackered from it, but's looking forward to flying
over to UK on occassion to help them out with their new out of hours problem ?
Everything I hear regarding the NHS now seems so Mickey Mouse and is an absolute
insult³ to the good people working within it, it's about time we heard some of
their own views, as they're on the ground as it were.
Fritz Von Andithoughtiwasneuroticsometimes
Bavaria who was well impressed with the new British news that trainee Doctors
can't/mustn't "theoretically" work longer than 58 hours a week. She does on
average 70 a week, and is knackered from it, but's looking forward to flying
over to UK on occassion to help them out with their new out of hours problem ?
Everything I hear regarding the NHS now seems so Mickey Mouse and is an absolute
insult³ to the good people working within it, it's about time we heard some of
their own views, as they're on the ground as it were.
Fritz Von Andithoughtiwasneuroticsometimes
Thanks a lot for your comments, much appreciated John:
Cheers,
Fritz Von Ihadanarseholetransplantonceitrejectedme !
Cheers,
Fritz Von Ihadanarseholetransplantonceitrejectedme !
John's Hopkins is extremely well respected here as I'm sure it is in the UK, but as with all radical "Cures" it's a tough pill to swallow; and one must basically think in terms of extending the finest quality product to all who need it, "A BIG HUMAN DREAM WORLDWIDE " indeed it is, and it's possible too with all the brilliant plus points it will carry with it, let's just keep on keepin on my friend.
Fritz Von Thenisawherface
Fritz Von Thenisawherface
On a slightly lighter note, please have a butchers at this site it's really quite something, and you can come to your own conclusions naturally as I'm sure is your want ? innit
http://www.undercovermedicine.com/
Fritz Von Drfeelgood
http://www.undercovermedicine.com/
Fritz Von Drfeelgood
NHS SUPERBUGS
Where there's MRSA there's brass
TONY BLAIR's sinister health secretary John Reid has deflected critisism about
MRSA with a sprinkle of "new" Labour gimmicks. While the national audit office
(NAO) described the NHS response to the superbug killing 5,000 a year as
"patchy", Reid suggested that patient "hotlines" and a commitment to "fly in"
unnamed foreign "experts" would solve the problem.
One point not mentioned by
Reid is that the number of cleaners has halved as the service has been
privatised over the past 15 years, leaving dirty hospitals more vunerable to
superbugs. But might this omission be related to the fact that the NHS's
shrinking army of ill-paid cleaners is employed by forms run by the kind of rich
businessmen so admired by his government?
Hospitals are a captive market with
five firms controlling more than half of NHS cleaning. Even with this limited
choice, the NAO showed that 16 percent of NHS trusts do not even consult their
infection-control nurses about their cleaning contracts, and 20 percent only
"sometimes" consult them. The five firms are ISS Mediclean, Sodexho, Compass,
Rentokil Initial and OCS. While Eric Rylberg, boss of Denmark's ISS, struggles
by on £607,839 a year, his cleaners in Swansea hospitals are currently
preparing to strike after ISS sacked union rep Graham Davies, apparently for his
union activities. Davies was heavily involved in strikes in 2002, when ISS
cleaners in Swansea, Lanarkshire and London walked out to push their wages up to
a princely £4.62 an hour.
Sodexho's boss Michael Landel makes do with £562,639 a
year. His firm is better known for hospital catering than cleaning: in June this
year it tried unsuccessfully to stop Channel 4's Despatches broadcasting an
investigation into "unhygienic behaviour" in its hospital meal supply business.
But the cleaning businesses have also hit the headlines: in 2002 Sodexho pulled
out of a contract at Glasgow's Victoria Infirmary following am MRSA outbreak.
Compass chairman Francis McKay, who earned a knighthood fron Tony Blair last
year, also earned £1,259,000 plus £549,582 in share options. Compass has not
faced serious industrial action since last year, when a strike ballot forced the
firm to increase healthcare pay in Tower Hamlets to £5.16 an hour. Sir Clive
Thompson left Rentokil this year after poor performance. His initial cleaners at
Barnsley General voted overwhelmingly for a strike in January, protesting at
measly pay and slashed staff numbers. Sir Clive's firm gave in and pushed their
pay from £4.50 an hour to a full £4.75. However, they would still have to work
seven days a week for 32 years to earn Sir Clive's £445,000 pay-off.
OCS is a
family-owned firm that makes chief executive Jim Goodliffe the 369th richest man
in Britain. Earlier this year staff at Neath Port Talbot Hospital threatened
strike action over staff shortages, complaining that numbers "are just
insufficient to keep the hospital clean". THey called off the walk-out when OCS
promised to increase staff by 10 percent.
But let's not be unfair. On 12 July
health secretary Reid revealed another of hit ingenious beat-the-superbugs
plans: "I will ask local patients` forums to conduct cleanliness inspections
four times a year, using a checklist drawn up by infection control nurses, and
the results will be made public."
On 22 July, he then announced the abolition of
the Commission for Patient and Public Involvement in Health - - the
organisation created to set up and run the patient forums !
Private Eye Magazine : August 2004 hand steam powered issue 1112:
N.B: I would add that as with "posts passim in this thread", no Doctor would
proceed surgery etc, without being happy about the hygiene of his/her
environment, no more than a pilot would take off without stisfactory or legally
binding pre-flightchecks. The fact that these high flying chierf execs earn a
fortune is neither here nor there, as they satisfy their share-holders and it's
the real world afterall ? The responsibilty of ensuring the hospitals are
cleaned up to standard lies with the NHS & Health service Chiefs ultimately. PFI
initiatives are not in essence complicated, they are fuelled by the need for
immediate seeable action, Greed, lack of record keeping (legally applies to all
of us) and lack of foresight which will inevtably cost our future generation
dearly in many ways. (Health id just one example of this Gross fiscal flash in
the pan folly) run your own Private affairs the same way, I dare you !
Fritz Von Evenrichkidsgetheadliceinnit
Where there's MRSA there's brass
TONY BLAIR's sinister health secretary John Reid has deflected critisism about
MRSA with a sprinkle of "new" Labour gimmicks. While the national audit office
(NAO) described the NHS response to the superbug killing 5,000 a year as
"patchy", Reid suggested that patient "hotlines" and a commitment to "fly in"
unnamed foreign "experts" would solve the problem.
One point not mentioned by
Reid is that the number of cleaners has halved as the service has been
privatised over the past 15 years, leaving dirty hospitals more vunerable to
superbugs. But might this omission be related to the fact that the NHS's
shrinking army of ill-paid cleaners is employed by forms run by the kind of rich
businessmen so admired by his government?
Hospitals are a captive market with
five firms controlling more than half of NHS cleaning. Even with this limited
choice, the NAO showed that 16 percent of NHS trusts do not even consult their
infection-control nurses about their cleaning contracts, and 20 percent only
"sometimes" consult them. The five firms are ISS Mediclean, Sodexho, Compass,
Rentokil Initial and OCS. While Eric Rylberg, boss of Denmark's ISS, struggles
by on £607,839 a year, his cleaners in Swansea hospitals are currently
preparing to strike after ISS sacked union rep Graham Davies, apparently for his
union activities. Davies was heavily involved in strikes in 2002, when ISS
cleaners in Swansea, Lanarkshire and London walked out to push their wages up to
a princely £4.62 an hour.
Sodexho's boss Michael Landel makes do with £562,639 a
year. His firm is better known for hospital catering than cleaning: in June this
year it tried unsuccessfully to stop Channel 4's Despatches broadcasting an
investigation into "unhygienic behaviour" in its hospital meal supply business.
But the cleaning businesses have also hit the headlines: in 2002 Sodexho pulled
out of a contract at Glasgow's Victoria Infirmary following am MRSA outbreak.
Compass chairman Francis McKay, who earned a knighthood fron Tony Blair last
year, also earned £1,259,000 plus £549,582 in share options. Compass has not
faced serious industrial action since last year, when a strike ballot forced the
firm to increase healthcare pay in Tower Hamlets to £5.16 an hour. Sir Clive
Thompson left Rentokil this year after poor performance. His initial cleaners at
Barnsley General voted overwhelmingly for a strike in January, protesting at
measly pay and slashed staff numbers. Sir Clive's firm gave in and pushed their
pay from £4.50 an hour to a full £4.75. However, they would still have to work
seven days a week for 32 years to earn Sir Clive's £445,000 pay-off.
OCS is a
family-owned firm that makes chief executive Jim Goodliffe the 369th richest man
in Britain. Earlier this year staff at Neath Port Talbot Hospital threatened
strike action over staff shortages, complaining that numbers "are just
insufficient to keep the hospital clean". THey called off the walk-out when OCS
promised to increase staff by 10 percent.
But let's not be unfair. On 12 July
health secretary Reid revealed another of hit ingenious beat-the-superbugs
plans: "I will ask local patients` forums to conduct cleanliness inspections
four times a year, using a checklist drawn up by infection control nurses, and
the results will be made public."
On 22 July, he then announced the abolition of
the Commission for Patient and Public Involvement in Health - - the
organisation created to set up and run the patient forums !
Private Eye Magazine : August 2004 hand steam powered issue 1112:
N.B: I would add that as with "posts passim in this thread", no Doctor would
proceed surgery etc, without being happy about the hygiene of his/her
environment, no more than a pilot would take off without stisfactory or legally
binding pre-flightchecks. The fact that these high flying chierf execs earn a
fortune is neither here nor there, as they satisfy their share-holders and it's
the real world afterall ? The responsibilty of ensuring the hospitals are
cleaned up to standard lies with the NHS & Health service Chiefs ultimately. PFI
initiatives are not in essence complicated, they are fuelled by the need for
immediate seeable action, Greed, lack of record keeping (legally applies to all
of us) and lack of foresight which will inevtably cost our future generation
dearly in many ways. (Health id just one example of this Gross fiscal flash in
the pan folly) run your own Private affairs the same way, I dare you !
Fritz Von Evenrichkidsgetheadliceinnit