The end for middle lane hoggers?

Posted by: Trevor Newall on 13 October 2004

I was overjoyed to see in the news that the police are going to target middle lane hoggers on motorways, and force them to move into the inside lane.
it's about time something was done about these idiots who have no concern for other road users, and who cause so many tailbacks!
female drivers seem particularly guilty of this, and I couldn't help laughing when one was interviewed and asked why she hogged the middle lane, and replied: "it saves me having to change lanes, and it's safer".
jeezuz!Big Grin
all we need now is a law to stop the even bigger idiots who hog the outside lane, and driving a car in this country will start becoming some fun!
gents, your thoughts please?

TN
Posted on: 14 October 2004 by bhazen
The strange thing about driving is, the same people who courteously allow you ahead of them in the queue at the grocers if you've only got 1 or 2 items, will run you off the road rather than let you merge onto the freeway at rush hour...
Posted on: 14 October 2004 by MarkEJ
Steven (apologies for previous mis-spelling);

You have missed my point entirely.

quote:
Originally posted by Steven Toy:
By doing 95 and not just 70 I spent less time on my overtaking manoeuvre, and less time in the middle lane in front of the Hogger.

In the event of a blowout you just take your foot off the accelerator and maintain a straight line.


Oh sure. It's just that maintaining that straight line becomes a bit of a problem when all the debris from a tyre casing, plus the remains of a front wing, hits the windscreen. And does Mr Freelander know this? You can't assume that he does.

quote:
In the event of a throttle surge you hit the brakes.


In many cases, doesn't work. Neither does turning off the ignition. Does Mr. Freelander know this?

quote:
As for steering failure I had a new steering rack fitted two months ago.


Of course you did, but how is Mr. Freelander's steering mechanism? His maintenance is out of your control.

quote:
As for the medical issues I'm required to have a thorough medical check at least every five years until 45 years old then every three years thereafter.


And this ensures immortality how, exactly? Is Mr. Freelander also party to this secret?

quote:
I've only killed two cats - both times it was the _ rear _ wheel that hit the cat and I was travelling at 20mph in both instances.


So thus far, you've only caused potential heartache and distress to two families because you didn't take into account that there could be cats around. Even after this sobering experience, you're still prepared to drive selfishly.

quote:
the car will run quieter at 50mph in 5th gear than at 29 mph in 3rd late at night.


It's still all about you, isn't it? You're thinking from inside the car, but it's mostly road speed which creates noise outside a vehicle, as much of it comes from the tyres rather than the engine, which is surely tractable enough to use 4th or top at 30mph.

OK -- slightly facetious, I know. But hopefully you see my point -- you can't control every factor which affects whether you or others live to see the end of the journey. Bad situations happen, and you can't control this. Speed is only one factor, but it is one which you can control, so it makes sense to do so. You are then in a much better position to make the best of a bad situation, should one occur.

Best;

Mark
Posted on: 14 October 2004 by Martin D
Bit off topic, have a go at this parking game
http://adverts.freeloader.com/zurich/
Posted on: 14 October 2004 by Trevor Newall
I'd just like to point out that "Mr Freelander" is actually called Freddie.
also, considering the amount of time steven must spend on roads, he's done well having only killed two cats.

TN
Posted on: 14 October 2004 by Steve Toy
When I'm out and about late at night on near-empty roads I do everything in my powers to avoid killing any animal be it a crow, a fox, a cat, a badger, a deer (we have to watch out for those where I live and they hurt you if you hit them) or even rabbits - and those little fluffsomes are on a suicide mission!

Regarding foxes, although I see more and more of them in urban areas I find that I still tend to see them cross my path in rural areas more frequently. During an average working week, I guess I see around 5 foxes out in the sticks, and 2 or 3 under streetlamps. My fox-splatting tally still stands stubbornly at zero.

So Mark, going by your logic, I should crawl along at 20 mph even on open roads in National Speed Limit areas late at night.

As for the two cats, I'd just cleared a bend and I was approaching a T junction three car lengths away, and one ran from under a hedge to my left and under my nearside rear wheel, probably at a greater speed than I was travelling at, so there was basically fuck-all I could do.

Ditto for the second cat that went under the same rear wheel just as I'd cleared a speed ramp at 20mph. Again there was no way I could have avoided it.

Because I knew that there was no way I could have avoided either of the cats my conscience was clear.

If I felt the need to crawl around everywhere at 20 mph (and this still wouldn't leave me immune from killing the odd cat as I've found) I'd find another way to earn a living.

Many of the risks outlined are highly theoretical and given that speed over the posted limit only seems to account for about 3% of all accidents, my guess is that death or injury caused by the combined effect of speeding on a near-empty toll motorway at 2.30 am and having a stroke, a blow-out, spontaneous onset of diabetes, or spontaneous disintegration of my steering rack would be less likely than being struck by lightning or winning the National Lottery Jackpot after a three-week rollover.

As for your throttle-surge phenomenon I'd prefer it to happen at 95 mph on a near-empty motorway than at 20 mph just as I'm about to stop for some kids crossing the road outside a school.

I've got more chance of having a crash caused by nodding off at the wheel due to boredom (and not fatigue) when forced to travel at an unnaturally and unnecessarily slow pace for sustained periods (but for dubious theoretically potential hazards.)

Every single cat that has run out in front of me to date I've successfully avoided without even going into a skid.

As for Freddie Freelander I'm not used to being followed in a different lane, and I wasn't prepared to slow down just because of some idiot who's decided to tailgate me (albeit obliquely) whatever speed I was doing. I also refuse to accept reponsibility for the consequences if Freddie has a blow-out, a stroke, or his car somehow manages to spontaneously disintegrate, and he goes careering off into the embankment or the crash barrier in my wake.

Regards,

Steve.

Well, you never know...

[This message was edited by Steven Toy on Fri 15 October 2004 at 5:15.]
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by NB
Surely it's the law of averages Steve. There are what 6m cars on the road today and there are x millions birds and animals. Road kill is inevitable. I can't beleive there are many members here that haven't hit a bird or animal especially when driving in the country.

There are those that claim that if you slow down then there will be fewer accidents but thats a falacy.

Accidents happen, its a fact of life!

I have had a power surge on the motorway. I was doing a steady 80 in cruise control. I had a power surge and the accelerator opened fully. I was licky and managed to get my jeep back under control before having an accident. I had space around me and I made sure no one else wa involved. I am gratefull as you say Steve that it didn't happen in a built up area. It scared the crap out of me and cost me a fortune to repair the electrics but at the end of the day no one was hurt.



Regards


NB
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by Ade Archer
quote:
as an area hotel manager, who has six hotels to look after, I'm often involved in many genuine emergencies, some of which I have to get to, and help deal with, before the emergency services arrive.
this frequently involves me dashing from one hotel to another, and, yes, driving fast!
the roads around torquay are not all that good, so the last thing I need is some arsehole on a jolly getting in my way!!



It is annoying when another vehicle is restricting the speed you are able to drive at when you believe that you and your journey must be far more important than the persons in front, but at the end of the day they have as much right to be there travelling at the speed they feel safe driving at as you. I drive at a speed I feel is appropriate and safe for the conditions, and yes, this means I do exceed the speed limit on occasion. If you or I or anyone else decides to exceed the speed limit that is our choice, but that does not mean that those who abide by the law are 'arseholes'
Out of interest, what hotel 'genuine emergencies' require you to beat the emergency services to the scene. Sounds worryingly like you need to conceal or destroy evidence prior to their arrival!

quote:
the roads around torquay are not all that good

Not all that good for what?
What purpose should they serve other than allow you to drive from A to B? Maybe every Torquay road should have an overtaking lane reserved for hotel managers, with a 100 mph limit, so they can race around the city attending to their hotel related emergencies. If it is that much of an issue get a motorbike, but I suspect with your attitude to other road users as just being areseholes who are in your way, you won't last very long.

I certainly am not on the side of the 'speed kills' lobby. You can argue against unrealistic speed limits, but you can't argue against those that abide by them. If I need to pass another slower moving vehicle I see it as an opportunity to demonstrate my skills in safely passing the vehicle without inconveniencing other road users. If I genuinely can't pass the vehicle in front safely, then it is almost always not safe to be travelling any faster anyway.
Peoples' inabilities to pass another vehicle when it is safe to do so is more likely to be a reflection on their abilities than the vehicle in front. If it is not safe to do so, what exactly is your argument for wanting to go faster?

quote:
and I wasn't prepared to slow down just because of some idiot who's decided to tailgate me


I can't quite grasp how you can level any criticism at another vehicle tailgating you when you were both doing 95 mph. You were both playing a game and neither wanted to give in by the sound of it. Had you slowed down to even 85mph the other vehicle would have pulled away and you would not have been in that situation.
How can you have a go at Mick Parry for abiding strictly to the limits and then defend the above?

Ade
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by andy c
HI,
I've said this before on this forum, but as usual I get ignored. But, I'll say it again.

The speed limit is just that, the limit at which you are allowed to travel on a given road. You can claim whatever mitigation you like but if you are invloved in a crash and speeding is a factor then you run the risk of being liable. The same applies for due care.

Middle lane hogging is just that, as it does not show 'reasonable consideration' for other road users. For this part of the offence of 'due care' you have to have someone who is not shown such consideration.

Blocking the middle lane and just allowing the outside lane for overtaking is fraught with danger, several have been mentioned above.

As for speeding to an emergency, the law is also straightforward re this, too. The hotel manager cannot justify this save in a very very particular set of circumstances, usually where death or serious injury is imminent.

N.B. re your post re the power surge - you could have claimed a defence of mechanical defect on your jeep... the chances are it would have been recorded on the engine managment system in your car as a fault...

I'll get my coat...

andy c!

PS it's not just speeding that causes bad driving, there are a host of other factors...
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by Nigel Cavendish
"What do you expect to see out of a Torquay hotel window? An eight-lane superhighway sweeping majestically to the distant horizon...?"

cheers

Nigel
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by Ade Archer
quote:
An eight-lane superhighway sweeping majestically to the distant horizon...?"



No, just linking all the local hotels would be sufficient, for exclusive use of hotel managers. No, come to think of it 'area' hotel managers only Winker

Ade
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by matthewr
Torquay hotelier? Not Basil Fawlty surely?

Matthew
Amused by the concept of an Emergency Lost Reservation being dealt with by the Travel Lodge Flying Squad
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by Ade Archer
quote:
I'm often involved in many genuine emergencies, some of which I have to get to, and help deal with, before the emergency services arrive.


quote:
Out of interest, what hotel 'genuine emergencies' require you to beat the emergency services to the scene. Sounds worryingly like you need to conceal or destroy evidence prior to their arrival!



Of course. He has to hide the kipper! Big Grin

Ade
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by matthewr
Basil is experienced in handling emergencies:

Basil : "Right, right!! Just stay where you are, because obviously if there _was_ a fire you'd all be standing around here like this in the lobby, wouldn't you?...I don't know why we bother, we should let you all burn..."

And is an expert on the local roads and driving:

Mr H: Couldn't find the freeway. Had to take a little back street called the M5.

Basil: Well I'm sorry it wasn't wide enough for you. A lot of the English cars have steering wheels
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by Trevor Newall
'basil' thinks you're all very funny Smile
of course, as you can imagine, with this material being so utterly original, I've never had it aimed at me before.

TN
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by Rockingdoc
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Toy:

As for the medical issues I'm required to have a thorough medical check at least every five years until 45 years old then every three years thereafter.




Oh that's all right then, 'cos those thorough medical exams will pick up up an impending heart attack every time. I have seen plenty of death and maiming as the result of drivers losing control through unexpected health issues.

It is simple physics, the faster you fly your lump of steel up the road, the more damage it will do when you lose control.
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by John Sheridan
quote:
OI can't quite grasp how you can level any criticism at another vehicle tailgating you when you were both doing 95 mph. You were both playing a game and neither wanted to give in by the sound of it. Had you slowed down to even 85mph the other vehicle would have pulled away and you would not have been in that situation.

and then again perhaps not. I met Mr Freelander - he does get around - on the M20. He thought it would be fun to drive around a car length behind me in the 'outside' lane. I'd slow down, he'd slow down. I'd speed up, he'd speed up. At one point when the road was totally clear I practically stopped - and so did he. Problem solved by leaving at the next junction and coming back onto the motorway well behind him. There are some seriously weird people out there and I don't think anyone can blame Mr Toy for that.
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by pingu
The "Toy" said

"As for Freddie Freelander I'm not used to being followed in a different lane, and I wasn't prepared to slow down just because of some idiot who's decided to tailgate me (albeit obliquely) whatever speed I was doing. I also refuse to accept reponsibility for the consequences if Freddie has a blow-out, a stroke, or his car somehow manages to spontaneously disintegrate, and he goes careering off into the embankment or the crash barrier in my wake."


Very good and Very funny

CJ
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by Steve Toy
John,

Was the Freelander a dark green colour by any chance?

BTW, I did vary my speed quite a bit actually, and Freddie maintained the same distance behind me in the middle lane. I opted to go faster as it meant I could clear any overtaking hazard more quickly and return to the inside lane thus spending a shorter amount of time with him directly behind me.

Whilst I was in the inside lane with him in the middle I didn't really care other than that I thought he was an imbecile.

Reducing speed isn't the answer to every (potential) road danger.

Regards,

Steve.
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by John Sheridan
quote:
Was the Freelander a dark green colour by any chance?

no, black. Maybe they're related?

quote:
Reducing speed isn't the answer to every (potential) road danger.


exactly, which is why the person who suggested you drive around in 5th gear at 30mph obviously doesn't have a clue.
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by matthewr
Captain Newell of the South Devon Emergency Hoteliers (13th Mobile Divsion) leaned back into his chair with a contented sigh. There is, he thought to himself, nothing better than knowing that the breakfast covers are all done, morning checkout has gone without a hitch (and no deaths!) and the hotel can run itself until the afternoon's coach party arrives at 3pm. Excitedly he re-opened his copy of "Hotel Manager" and returned to the fascinatin in-depth article on 'Dealing with Floods, Typhoons and other Acts of God'.

His good mood lasted all of 20 seconds before his emergency vidiprinter kicked into life:

... EMERGENCY ... HOSTAGE SITUATION ... GRIFFIN ARMS, BARNSTAPLE ... ASSISTANCE REQUIRED....ALL UNITS RESPOND ...

In one well practiced move, Trevor swung his feet off the desk, grabbed his All-Purpose YHA Adventure Shops Outdoor jacket and headed for the door.

"Trevor!" cried Mrs Newell, "Will you not have something to eat before dashing off?"

"For fuck sake woman, there's no time" cried Trevor grabbing his keys, driving gloves and Michelin Guide.

"At least take this flask of hot tea?"

But Trevor was already in the Corolla and going through his pre-rescue checklist (Demist to Max? Check! Radio Five Live for news, traffic and weather? Check!) and not 2 mins after recieving the emergency call out he disappeared in cloud of dust, his alloy wheels (factory fitted, natch) kicking up a spray of gravel that spattered the Alabaster lions that stood sentry at the doors of The Seaview Hotel.

"Not on my watch, matey, not on my watch" said Captain Newell.

-*-

The Sapphire Blue Corolla squatted on its suspension as Trevor, slammed her into third on the exit from the Maybury Roundabout and zoomed up the new slip road.

"Thank heaven for the new A67 link road to the Allerton bypass" thought Trevor, his mind working like a finely tuned GPS SatNav system. "I'll be there in no time". He relaxed slightly and, in an uncharacteristic detour from S.O.P. he switched off Radio Five and flicked on his Fleetword Mac Greatest Hits CD.

The coda to "Change" blasted out of the six speaker sound system, the speedo hit 85mh, Trevor floored the accelerator and sang:

"Dum. Di di dum dum, do dum, dum"
"Dum. Di di dum dum, do dum, dum"

"FUCKKKKKKKK!" cried Trevor. "MIDDLE LANE HOG!!! HELM TAKING EMERGENCY EVASIVE ACTION. REPEAT EMERGENCY EVASIVE ACTION."

Trevor battled manfully with the imitation leather clad steering wheel. But to no avail. The Corolla left the carriageway and drove up the grassy bank at some considerable velocity. The multi-award winning family saloon left the ground, etched a perfect Newtonian parabloa through the drey Devon skies, and ploughed into the School for Cute Blind Kids killing them all.

Amongst those who died was little Gemma Booth, aged 6 1/2, who only that morning had made a lovely card which showed picture of her Mum and said "I Love Mummy" (in Braille obviously).

The irony is, of course, that the hostage crisis at Barnstaple was dealt with by the police and ended peacefully. And the middle lane hog escaped with 3pts and a mild censure from the local magistrate.

Although to be fair he was later murdered by a team of balaclava clad Provisional AA members who arrived in a taxi with a Staffordshire registration.

[This message was edited by Matthew Robinson on Fri 15 October 2004 at 16:38.]
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by Steve Toy
"no, black. Maybe they're related?"

Perhaps it was black. At 2.30 am it was dark so my identification of car colours perhaps wasn't so good. TBH, I didn't identify the car as being a Freelander until I slowed down to exit the M6 Toll, so basically it could have been a UFO (or UMLHO) with slightly raised headlamps following me until that point.

"exactly, which is why the person who suggested you drive around in 5th gear at 30mph obviously doesn't have a clue."

It wouldn't do the engine much good driving around with it at idling speed.


Regards,

Steve.
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by Ade Archer
quote:
Lower your speed, your concentration will drop, and eventually your mind will wander. This is why I detest driving through extensive built-up areas with 30mph limits enforced by cameras late at night


I don't have any statistics, but I would bet there are far more RTAs and deaths on the motorway caused by people falling asleep at the wheel at or over 70mph through lack of stimulation and need to concentrate, than there are in built up areas at 30 mph where there is a far greater concentration of hazards to anticipate and respond to.
In reality what is the furthest you could travel on a 30 mph road at any time of the day without needing to concentrate in order to anticipate and if necessary react to an upcoming hazard such as junctions, traffic lights, oncoming vehicles etc.
Whatever the speed limit or road, if you lack the ability to concentrate on what is going on around you, particularly at only 30mph when the consequences are less severe, you really shouldn't be in charge of what is potentially a lethal weapon.

Ade
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by Steve Toy
Whatever the speed limit or road, if you lack the ability to concentrate on what is going on around you, particularly at only 30mph when the consequences are less severe, you really shouldn't be in charge of what is potentially a lethal weapon.


I just get a bit bored of driving below 30mph on the A34 late at night for 20 minutes or more. I feel kind of trapped, a bit like dreaming of running through treacle. In the daytime it's as different matter entirely.


Regards,

Steve.
Posted on: 15 October 2004 by Steve Toy
I don't have any statistics, but I would bet there are far more RTAs and deaths on the motorway caused by people falling asleep at the wheel at or over 70mph through lack of stimulation and need to concentrate, than there are in built up areas at 30 mph where there is a far greater concentration of hazards to anticipate and respond to.

Another reason why middle-lane hoggers should be penalised I guess. I don't get bored on motorways because even on the near-empty ones in the small hours I'm constantly overtaking the occasional lorry or slow-moving car and as such I have to regularly check my mirrors, indicate, and change lanes.

Middle-lane hoggers don't have to do any of these things. It's when you become a passenger at the wheel that you are most likely to fall asleep.

In the small hours on a camera-enforced 30 mph limit road the same problem occurs. There are no hazards, no other traffic to speak of, and nearly all the traffic lights are green. I've never come close to falling asleep, but upon the odd red light changing to green, perhaps in an area with little in the way of buildings on either side a lapse in concentration has made me forget about the 30 mph limit. Fortunately so far I've remembered just as I spot the yellow box immediately infront of me and I hit the brakes.

All the time I'm thinking that I can't wait to see ythe NSLA sign then just go, and escape from the nocturnal urban desert without so much as a fox or a cat crossing the road to keep me on my toes.


Regards,

Steve.
Posted on: 16 October 2004 by MarkEJ
quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
Captain Newell of the South Devon Emergency Hoteliers (13th Mobile Divsion)... etc.


Magnificent.