The end for middle lane hoggers?

Wow Ade,
That takes me back to times long ago when I had to learn those definitions by heart and was then tested on them!

Interestingly enough the Institue of Advanced Motorists don't agree with everything in 'Roadcraft', but I have found the things that the course taught me have got me out of many a near sticky situation. Especially having to do a verbal commentary for 60 minutes whilst going, in some places, very quickly indeed. (I used to end up with a right dab on!)

The comment re commentary mentioned earlier is very valid - next time you are driving along you ought to try it - if your brain has to register what you are seeing, in order to process it to then verbalise your observation, this doesn't half increase your observational skills...

andy c!

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The comment re commentary mentioned earlier is very valid - next time you are driving along you ought to try it

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Andy,
I had to do it many times as part of the training. Initially, you can't think of enough things to say, but with practice and increased observation skills, it becomes quite a challenge to fit everything in before it's too late and you've already passed it.

Ade

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Just to be provocative I would suggest that because you have taken a course or two, you feel not only superior to all other drivers but also that they are incapable of even rudimentary driving. If this arrogant attitude were true then it is a dangerous to take on the road. Patience and humilty are the key.

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Tom, I agree with you totally.

I took my course as part of my job, and have used it as part of my occupation ever since. I was also re-assessed on a 3 yearly basis and if still not up to scratch got recoursed.

andy c!

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If this arrogant attitude were true then it is a dangerous to take on the road. Patience and humilty are the key.

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I am trained to a far higher standard than average. I am proud of the qualifications I hold, but I fail to see where the evidence is that I have an arrogant attitude when driving. Pointing out where I believe others are failing, based on what I have learned during that training, is not, in my opinion, being arrogant.
Actually, driving with the attitude that everyone else is an idiot is a much safer way to drive than assuming everyone is an expert driver
If you took advanced training and were advised of these faults by the tutor, you would not consider them to be arrogant drivers, so why do you believe I am?

Ade

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I still don't understand how you tie that in with a lack of observation, which surely all "good" drivers would acknowledge as paramount.

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The argument was that one should indicate just in case there is someone to benefit from it, specifically in the case of overtaking. The fact you are indicating 'just in case' shows a lack of observation skill, because if a driver is making proper observations, there should be no 'just in case' as he has seen whether there is anyone to benefit from the signal or not. Under what circumstances can a vehicle be following you and you don't know it's there, apart from poor observation skills.

And to clarify, the signal is for the benefit of vehicles following, not the one you are overtaking.

Ade

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Originally posted by Ade Archer:
The fact you are indicating 'just in case' shows a lack of observation skill

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No it doesn't. Observation and indication are mutually exclusive.

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And to clarify, the signal is for the benefit of vehicles following, not the one you are overtaking.

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No it isn't. The signal is of benefit to anyone who can see it.

We're not driving a text book here. If you think you are 100% observant, you are mistaken and arrogant.

J

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If you think you are 100% observant, you are mistaken and arrogant.

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if you're not 100% observant then indicating is hardly likely to help you - unless you're one of those extremely rare people who indicates for the required 4 seconds before moving.

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if you're not 100% observant then indicating is hardly likely to help you

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Can you not envisage a situation in which you don't notice another road user but they notice your indication and avoid a certain accident?

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Can you not envisage a situation in which you don't notice another road user but they notice your indication and avoid a certain accident?

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First off you presume people use indicators correctly - which they don't. Unless you give several seconds notice of your intentions then your indication is completely useless.
Apart from that what we have been discussing and what you are continually failing or not wanting to grasp is that we are talking predominantly about A-roads and motorways here where you are able to know exactly where everyone is at all times. In other situations where there can be doubt then, as has been said, you DO indicate.

Hi John

Thanks again for the link to the book. I'll be buying it.

I fear, we post, but we don't actually communicate. You obviously think I'm being obstructive and pig headed and at the moment I think likewise of yourself.

FWIW I think we stand on a lot of common ground but at the moment it appears it's much easier to see the differences rather than the similarities.

J

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Ah the Great Traffic Light Conspiracy much trumpeted by the Evening Standard prior to the introduction of the Congestion Charge. Oddly they have yet to run the story where Ken flicks the big TfL switch marked "Congestion" to off and pronounces the Congestion Charge to be a staggering success.

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If the traffic light sequencing has been altered in any way it is easy to spot if you pass through a given set regularly. It certainly isn't a conspiracy. Traffic lights have been (mis)used as traffic gates so that local authorites can meet volume of flowing traffic reduction targets set by Central Government.

Targets are then met but there is no benefit to anyone in environmental terms given the increased levels of congestion and ensuing exhaust emissions.

Even in the area where I work traffic signals have been altered to the detriment of traffic flow for whatever reason.


Regards,

Steve.

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Originally posted by matthewr:
Captain Newell of the South Devon Emergency Hoteliers (13th Mobile Divsion)...

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now that was much more original than bloody basil fawlty!
what a laugh
matthew, the uncanny accuracy of your insight into my daily hotel duties suggests you have inside information.
oh, just one small point: it's 'Newall', dear boy, not 'Newell'.

TN

Hey Tom
i still agree with ya.
"politeness costs nothing but gains everything" was what I was taught as a kid!

andy c!

The number of times I've let someone out of a side road and then deeply regretted it...

Regards,

Steve.

On the subject of "middle lane hoggers" - it reminds me of the run up to the last general election.

During a Top Gear session on expected anti-motorist legislation, Jeremy Clarkson suggested that he would make a better PM than the contenders of the time. His 'manifesto' included the usual motoring pet peeves, but the one that stuck in my mind was his solution to the middle lane hogs.

'Men from the Ministry' would be stationed on all motorway bridges. When observing anti-social lane hogging behaviour they would shoot at the car with a paintball gun. This would act as both a warning and a means of identification. If the same vehicle was observed behaving in the same manner further down the road it would again be shot at with a paintball gun. If the man on a subsequent bridge saw a car with two paint 'splats' on it hogging the middle lane he would also fire at it - with real bullets !

I suspect if JC had been serious he might just have got elected.....

As for reality, I gave up on high performance cars a couple of years ago and bought a diesel Discovery (yes it does go off road !) and can't really say I've noticed that my journeys take any longer. Certainly here in the South/South East there's frequently too much traffic on the roads and you're just grateful to be moving at all.

The bit that does annoy me just a little teensy weensy bit is when I do get onto a decent bit of road and still get held up by muppets doing 40mph it takes a while to get a 2 ton diesel 4x4 'wound up' to a reasonable speed !

Mark

Mark,

You talk a lot of sense.

Yes muppets, that's them!

The trouble with real bullets is retrieving the now driverless car. Otherwise it's a very good idea.

Regards,

Steve.

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The trouble with real bullets is retrieving the now driverless car.

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Steve,
perhaps we need to pay a little more out and employ snipers then..LOL

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The bit that does annoy me just a little teensy weensy bit is when I do get onto a decent bit of road and still get held up by muppets doing 40mph it takes a while to get a 2 ton diesel 4x4 'wound up' to a reasonable speed !
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Depends what you have under the bonnet, I don't have that problem!



Regards


NB

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The trouble with real bullets is retrieving the now driverless car.

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I agree, but TOW anti-tank missiles are a tad expensive

andy c - how much are you offering

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Originally posted by NB:
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The bit that does annoy me just a little teensy weensy bit is when I do get onto a decent bit of road and still get held up by muppets doing 40mph it takes a while to get a 2 ton diesel 4x4 'wound up' to a reasonable speed !
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Depends what you have under the bonnet, I don't have that problem!



Regards


NB

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I went for the diesel for better off road performance and the more palateable fuel consumption Mind you, £1k on a new ECU and an intercooler to bring it up to 198bhp is tempting

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Originally posted by MarkLamble:

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Originally posted by NB:
Quote:-

The bit that does annoy me just a little teensy weensy bit is when I do get onto a decent bit of road and still get held up by muppets doing 40mph it takes a while to get a 2 ton diesel 4x4 'wound up' to a reasonable speed !
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Depends what you have under the bonnet, I don't have that problem!



Regards


NB

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I went for the diesel for better off road performance and the more palateable fuel consumption Mind you, £1k on a new ECU and an intercooler to bring it up to 198bhp is tempting

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I went for a 4.7l Petrol engine there is no substitute for size

I would DEFINATELY go for the uprated ECU and intercooler. Then again I am a power freak, 450 BHP from my last car but seriously, more bhp equals safer overtaking and more contol



Regards


NB

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I would DEFINATELY go for the uprated ECU and intercooler. Then again I am a power freak, 450 BHP from my last car but seriously, more bhp equals safer overtaking and more contol

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Not to mention the ability to annoy the local boy racers by spinning all 4 wheels

Conjugation of speed:

I have an uprated ECU and intercooler giving 450 BHP and use it responsibly for safer overtaking and more control;

you have an uprated ECU and intercooler giving 450 BHP but use it somewhat inappropriately;

he is a reckless boy racer and a danger to others;

whereas I annoy the local boy racers by spinning all 4 wheels - in a safe and responsible manner.

cheers

Nigel