The Shiny New All-Purpose MTB Thread

Steve said "Probably something to do with the way the wheel has been dished"

Not sure how the dishing would affect the relative positions of the hub, rotor and frame.

Regarding Mekon's fork choice, I would definitely get a fork with external travel and rebound adjustment as you get 2 or 3 forks in one (general trail riding at 100mm, a 125mm version for the downwards bits and and climbing setting that will also sprint/jump woods type stuff really well). It's something I use a lot and wouldn't go back to a non-adjustable version -- although I take Steve's point that for general XC riding a set and forget single setting might well be simpler and cheaper. It might also be the case that high end forks like the TALAS work so well on longer settings that you would rarely want to shorten the travel anyway.

Like Steve, I also wouldn't bother with lockout myself as in my case reducing the travel to 80mm and slowing the rebound damping right down has most of this advantage for far less money. I also wouldn't bother with adjustable compression damping as I've never met anyone who can explain how to set it up and why you might want to change it on-the-fly in a way that is remotely convincing.

"How do the Sherman range compare, and which model is the one to go for?"

The Firefly is the one that has been on the diet so has the long travel/big hit capability but is still reasonably light (shade under 5lb) and most suitable for general XC riding.

FWIW my Rock Shox Psylo is a lot of very versatile fork for £200. My LBS seem convinced its the best budget choice.

Matthew

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Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
Steve said "Probably something to do with the way the wheel has been dished"

Not sure how the dishing would affect the relative positions of the hub, rotor and frame.

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Doh - course it wouldn't. I hope the frame or disk mount didn't get twisted in the accident.

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FWIW my Rock Shox Psylo is a lot of very versatile fork for £200. My LBS seem convinced its the best budget choice.

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The Psylos do look good value at that price and it looks like some of the prespective budget Prince Albert owners are going to use them. I've never tried Psylos, however the reports I've read (in mags and from folks I know with them) say they're a bit flexy at the long end of their travel range (and much better at around 100mm or so) so I'd expect the travel adjust is more important with them than with the Fox Forks, which are less flexy (but cost more).

Personally I wouldn't buy Psylos new ('cause 2nd hand Fox forks can be had for the same price) but used and for say £100 I'd definitely consider them as an alternative to used MX Comps.

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Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
"How do the Sherman range compare, and which model is the one to go for?"

The Firefly is the one that has been on the diet so has the long travel/big hit capability but is still reasonably light (shade under 5lb) and most suitable for general XC riding.

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£500 though.

"The 2004 Sherman Flick is a freeride and all-mountain fork with a travel adjust system that is alterable travel between 90-130mm. Less when climbing or sprinting, and more for those big hits. Features SPV dampers which resist rider-induced forces, yet soak-up trail-induced bumps like a sponge. The SPV works its magic by merging position-sensitive damping technology with an adjustable, progressive rate. The SPV pressure and volume adjustment lets you fine tune bump sensitivity for a truly customized feel. A thru-axle is offered on selected models for increased stiffness and stability when used with a 20mm hub. Also employed is Manitou's Reverse Arch magnesium casting lower, which are lightweight but still keep the fork tracking due to increased stiffness. IS 74mm disc brake mount. Colors: Grey or Urban Camo. Optional 1.5 steerer available. Steerer is steel. 4.9 lbs"

The Minute 3 SPV is the same price and 1lb lighter:

"With its super lightweight, long travel, and SPV damping technology for the ultimate in cornering stability and controlled suspension performance, Minute is the best trail fork money can buy. The Minute Three combines all the staple Minute features (30mm stanchions, super stiff Reverse Arch magnesium casting, integrated graphics) with an air main spring and a travel adjustment feature that allows the rider to toggle back and forth from 100mm to 130mm of travel.

Weight: 3.8 lbs
Travel: 100/130 mm via Rapid Travel Adjust
Damping: SPV Damping
Adjustments: Air Spring Pressure, Rebound, SPV Platform Pressure, SPV Volume Travel
Lubrication: Semi-Bath with Evil Genius Seals
Spring: Air
Casting: Magnesium RA
Stanchions: 30mm Aluminum
Steerer: Aluminum
Crown: Hollow Forged Black Aluminum
Color: Black "

Others to consider:

Pace RC40 - £400
4lb, 100-130mm travel adjust, external compression & rebound adjustment, "launch control" lockout (whatever that is). I've seen somre reliability concerns though.

Magura Phaon - £323
90-125mm adjustable travel, external rebound, preload and travel adjusters, coil sprung, 4lb.

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Originally posted by Matthew Brownnutt:

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Pace RC40 - "launch control" lockout (whatever that is).

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I know. I know. Ask me!

It's a lockout switch that switches off when it gets bumpy. I think you can adjust the sensitivity.

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Sounds similar to the "Compression Lock-out with preset blowoff threshold" on my Float 100RLCs.

Which I've so far never even touched - along with most of the other adjusters on there (other than to put them back to factory values that is).

Regards
Steve

"The Minute 3 SPV is the same price and 1lb lighter"

The Minutes are lightwieght air spring trail forks and with Mekons talk of 25ft table-tops, big doubles, 50mph downhils and generally hucking I'd have though he was more a Sherman Firefly sort of guy. It's certainly the fork in Manitou's range that competes with the likes of Marzocchis Freeride

Matthew

I have adjustable compression damping (which is what I assume the C means) on the front and back of my B17. Most setup guides I have seen advise backing it off unless you need adjust for compromises in the spring rate/preload/ride height interaction. I've pretty much backed it right off on the front, but I've dialled in a few clicks on the back, as I don't want to go up another spring on my coilover, and I like to run alot of sag.

[edit]ignore all that, I just read that it's the blow-off thing plus and adjustment just for the low-speed circuit, ie a bob reducer.[/edit]

I hadn't noticed the TALAS was an air sprung fork. They make me nervous. The vanilla 125R is definitely the front runner, as it looks to come out a bit cheaper than the firefly, flick, or Z1FR, but I'm going to speak to Dialled Bikes about fork deals nearer the order time (he can do deals on Fox, Marzocchi and Manitou, which probably puts Magura, Rock Shox and Pace out of the running). Now I have a post-doc lined up, the prospect of throwing it all on the credit card is mighty tempting.

Hmm, that firefly is definitely the pimp option tho'.

Matthew, have you found any other BMXs worth a look, or is that the pick of the bunch?

[This message was edited by Mekon on Wed 07 July 2004 at 16:22.]

"have you found any other BMXs worth a look, or is that the pick of the bunch?"

Of the discounted bikes at £150 it's either the Nasty (a slightly 20.75" TT but pure dirt jump bike with no front brake) or the Mackay (20.5" but more of an all-rounder with front brake and pegs).

Other than that there are the Haro Backtrails (including a full cro-mo bike for £160). There's lots more choice generally at £200 but I am not sure I want to spend that much really.

Matthew

"Hmm, that firefly is definitely the pimp option tho"

I nearly bought one until I discovered about a week after getting my bike that the Psylo has a rebound adjust and that this being stuck on the very slow setting (along with the run-in period) was why it seemed really quite crap.

Friend of mine has the really long Sherman on his Kona (Stinky I think) and loves it.

Matthew

If you get the Nasty, I could swap you my Tech 77, cable, and AD990 for the new Bigg Jus album. So long as the Nasty has a hollow stem bolt and u-brake bosses on the fork, it would be problem solved. If you are looking a getting a brake added to the front, that is the setup you want fitted, anyway.

Hmm, looks like it doesn't have bosses on on the fork, which means you'd need a brake adapter.

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Originally posted by Mekon:
I hadn't noticed the TALAS was an air sprung fork.

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I think most travel adjustable forks are air-sprung.

The Vanilla R is a superb fork for the cash and on an OEM deal you might get it for £250 (which is what On-One sell them for if you're buying a frame as well).

"I think most travel adjustable forks are air-sprung"

I don't think so -- certainly both the Psylos and Shermans are coil sprung. I thought that (roughly speaking) Air = lighter, trail fork and Coil = heavier but burlier.

Matthew

Matthew, from my experience, I would say that coming from MTB, it is easier to adjust to dirt geometry than anything else. My first post-MTB bmx was a mini ramp bike, and it was tough going. I clearly remember the first time I got a go on my mates S&M Holmes (21" TT), and realised I didn't need to feel hunched. I really don't think you will miss a front brake.

Oddly enough, my email just beeped at me and there was an email from Trek. Even odder, there's an interview with the 'Angry Asian.' His name is James Huang, he's a fork tuning guru, and worked at my LBS when I lived in Michigan. James sold me my Gunnar mtb and helped me build it up. He also sold me his used Bianchi Sc road frame (but that's another story). Anyway, I learned a lot on how to rebuild my fork (late 90's Manitou SX-Ti) from his website (http://www.angryasian.com/) a few years back. I think there's a fair amount of info there, including a forum with topics such as 'Which fork should I buy'

Might be worth checking out,

cheers

Dan

Matthew,

What happened to your old bike? For fun, why not convert that to a single speed?

re: Raceface -- it may have been that it wasn't cranked tight enough in the first place, and that riding it when loose buggered the splines.
I never understood the move to splines. With a taper, there's the bolt and friction to keep the crank in place.

Dan

Mekon said "I really don't think you will miss a front brake"

Ok, Nasty it is then. Probably.

I note I've already got (rather by accident) a pair Cory Nastazio's signature gloves somewhere so it seems like fate is calling me. All I need is a pair of presposterously baggy shorts.

Dan said "What happened to your old bike? For fun, why not convert that to a single speed?"

My old Marin has found a good home with a fellow forum member who now uses it to commute in North London. When he's not speed drinking Guiness in some seedy bar, its new owner can now be found taking on all comers on the brutal Col d'Amwell Street.

The concept of "fun" and "single speed" does not compute for non-weirdos (my nascent BMX career notwithstanding).

Matthew

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Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
"The Minute 3 SPV is the same price and 1lb lighter"

The Minutes are lightwieght air spring trail

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They're Manitous closed equivalent to the Fox Talas though, which is why I thought them worth a mention.

For anything short of proper freeride/jumpy stuff they're probably worth a look, especially the "1" version which looks good value.

One thing also to consider with forks is the size of front brake disk you're planning to run. Many forks (including the Fox ones) are only warrantied up to 180mm. No problem for trail riding etc, but perhaps too small for proper downhilling.

Regards
Steve

Fairly confident of my championship form on the Guinness front but increasingly the Col d'Amwell holds no fears and have not been passed by anyone over the age of 78 for some time (yesterday in fact). Fell off again today. Front brake, brutal weather in London and errrm don't really know how to go round corners.

John

On second thoughts...
A pair of bolt cutters and return fare to Swindon should run you less than 150-.

Damn, that angry asian site has reminded me how badly my XVerts need a service. There is almost a slack headsets worth of play between my sliders and stanchions.

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Originally posted by John C:
Fell off again today. Front brake, brutal weather......... don't really know how to go round corners.

John

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Go on admit it, you were riding in the Tour today !

If you look at service intervals on forks it's actually quite scary how often you are meant to strip down and rebuild and replace the oil. And the more expensive the fork the more often they seem to need doing.

Indeed there is an argument that it's cheaper -- given that most people are not equipped to service forks -- to buy and trash a cheapish £200 fork over two years and replace it rather than paying £50 a time to service it.

Matthew

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Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
If you look at service intervals on forks it's actually quite scary how often you are meant to strip down and rebuild and replace the oil. And the more expensive the fork the more often they seem to need doing.

Indeed there is an argument that it's cheaper -- given that most people are not equipped to service forks -- to buy and trash a cheapish £200 fork over two years and replace it rather than paying £50 a time to service it.

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Unless you've bought Pace you can pretty much ignore the service intervals. I ride a lot and in pretty bad conditions much of the time and so far the only one of the forks I've used that's required any maintenance at all were the Manitou Mars Elites and even then it was only to inject more grease after every couple of outings.

"Why do you need a BMX?"

I always wanted one, I am hoping it will improve my MTB skills, there are some fab dirt jumps near me but the spot is very BMX sized and rather too tight for MTBs. It's something of an experiement that I am only contemplating as one can get pretty good BMXs for very little money (in this case £150) so it's hardly a risk.

My Cove remains my main bike. I have no interest in a roadbike as they are, well, rather boring.

Matthew

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Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
My Cove remains my main bike. I have no interest in a roadbike as they are, well, rather boring.

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I'd quite like a BMX but I won't buy one as the jump spots near my house are MTB friendly and the nearest BMX park is far enough away (and it's hilly on the way) that while I'd cycle there on my MTB I wouldn't on a BMX. Also add to that the fact that a fa, old, unskilled bloke like me is going to look very, very stupid on one.

As for road bikes I also thought they're a bit boring but I do still quite enjoy using mine and it is a good bit faster when commuting.

You can't bunny hop speed bumps on a road bike. Or ride down stairs.

Matthew