MTB Thread: Soul v Inbred
Posted by: Steve G on 28 May 2004
There was a bit of interest in how my Cotic Soul compared to the On-One Inbred it replaced, so after my first proper ride I thought I'd create a new thread for my thoughts.
I only did 11 miles of my local trails but some impressions were already making themselves felt.
1) It's livlier than the Inbred was and feels lighter to ride (even if it's actually only about half a pound or so lighter).
2) It climbs better than the Inbred and is perhaps the most comfortable out of the saddle bike I've ever ridden.
3) The steeper head angle (it's corrected for 100mm-125mm forks instead of the 80-100mm of the Inbred) really makes itself felt with very fast steering with the 105mm Bombers currently fitted. It nearly caught me out a few times and I had several front end slides. It felt nice though but when I go to 125mm forks (a friend is loaning me a set of 125mm Fox Vanillas to try as I'm trying to decide between them and the travel adjustable Talas) I think it should be just about ideal for me.
I really liked my Inbred (which is killer value at £225) but the Soul feels great so far and when tweaked (the saddle angle is way out as I haven't changed it from when it was on the Inbred) and made some spec changes (125mm forks, titanium railed saddle, XT chainset) I think it's going to be spot on.
The Soul is £400 and the Inbred £225 and both represent great value. The Soul has more expensive tubing (Reynolds 853) which means it's lighter but the differences between then will probably narrow slightly as On-One are releasing a version of the Inbred corrected for forks in the 100mm-150mm range (one of my buddies is on the waiting list for one so I'll get a chance to try it).
Anyway I'm going to give the Soul a few weeks in its current spec (e.g. the same spec as the Inbred had) before deciding how I want to spec it long term, but I'm really, really looking forward to throwing it at Glentress and Innerleithen sometime soon!
Posted on: 28 May 2004 by Dan M
Steve,
Nice looking ride. My Gunnar is 853 also, and is a great, light climber. I'm sure 11 miles was plenty with the saddle like that!
Dan
Posted on: 28 May 2004 by Steve G
The saddle felt fine when I was riding it - I didn't realize it was so far out until I saw the pics!
Posted on: 28 May 2004 by Mekon
I think I must have played with the frame builder on the Cotic site a dozen times now. Stunning looking bike; I hope you intend to abuse it. I trust you cleared those logs before parking up.
The LT inbred sounds fun.
Posted on: 28 May 2004 by ErikL
Dan,
I'd love to see a pic of your Gunnar(s).
Steve,
Nice one.
Posted on: 28 May 2004 by Dan M
Here's one of the 'cross I had handy -- though now I have a fancy Salsa 49 tooth chainring on the front, and I replace the beater Cyclone front mech with an old Veloce:
Posted on: 29 May 2004 by Steve G
quote:
I trust you cleared those logs before parking up.
I'm ok with logs that the chainset will clear (like the one at the back) but I don't have the technique for getting the back wheel over bigger ones, although I can get the front wheel over ok.
Posted on: 01 June 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Brownnutt:
Thanks for the report Steve. Nice pics as well.
All these new bike threads are making me jealous.
I'm trying to decide between a XT spec hardtail or spending a bit more an getting a lower spec full suss.
Difficult one that. The only acceptable option of course is to get both...
quote:
What pedals are those by the way?
They are Shimano M545's - I use them on a couple of my bikes.
The Soul has already had a spec change as a friend loaned me a set of 125mm Fox Vanilla forks to try on it which I fitted last night. Should test run them tonight.
I've also had an exchange with the frame designer (one advantage of going with a small British brand created by an enthusiast) and with the Inbred frame designer and they both reckon the front end is washing out because I'm running too long a stem (causing me to put too much weight over the bars), although it might be ok running the same stem with longer forks. If it's still washing out with the Vanillas on then I'm going to try a 100mm stem and see how that feels.
Regards
Steve
Posted on: 01 June 2004 by matthewr
Very nice.
You should've taken that hideous water bottle off for photo purposes though.
"I'm trying to decide between a XT spec hardtail or spending a bit more an getting a lower spec full suss"
As long as you have enough budget to get a good FS (pref. north of £1k) and you ride mostly off-road, then for most people the rear suspension is the better option, IMHO.
Also FS bikes are now properly matured designs so the "cheaper" (as in £1k - £1.5k) from the likes of Specialised, Marin, etc. have had all the bugs ironed out and gnerally work briliiantly.
Matthew
Posted on: 01 June 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
Very nice.
You should've taken that hideous water bottle off for photo purposes though.
True. I only use a drink bottle for shorter local runs as only having a waist pack on makes a nice change from the usual hydration pack.
What makes it look worse is that put a poly bag over the top to stop it getting splattered with mud and cow/sheep shit!
I need to take more pictures of it now anyway as it looks great with the Fox forks on, and this time - just for you - I'll take the bottle off...
quote:
"I'm trying to decide between a XT spec hardtail or spending a bit more an getting a lower spec full suss"
As long as you have enough budget to get a good FS (pref. north of £1k) and you ride mostly off-road, then for most people the rear suspension is the better option, IMHO.
I own full-suss and hardtail bikes and I'm not quite so convinced that's the case. With both bikes available I find that I tend to use the hardtail for most of my shorter local trips (under 15 miles generally) and the full-suss for the longer trips. To be honest I'd be quite happy to live with either but I'd rather have a well specced hardtail than a compromised full-suss.
quote:
Also FS bikes are now properly matured designs so the "cheaper" (as in £1k - £1.5k) from the likes of Specialised, Marin, etc. have had all the bugs ironed out and gnerally work briliiantly.
£1.5K or so gets you a very nice full-suss from Specialized and equivalent mainstream manufacturers. £1k would be better spend on a discounted 2003 model, which is what I did. My bike still required some changes to bring it up to the spec I wanted but, using mainly 2nd hand bits, meant I've got a bike that cost £1.5K to put together that would is roughly equivalent to a £2.5K bike new.
If you don't mind V-brakes then a base model 2003 Epic is good value at under £1000.
Posted on: 01 June 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Brownnutt:
quote:
They are Shimano M545's - I use them on a couple of my bikes.
I assume they are clipless.
They are.
quote:
quote:
friend loaned me a set of 125mm Fox Vanilla forks
I looked at some Vanillas over the weekend. I was looking at the Chameleon. The problems is that if you spec it with XT and a Carbon seatpost (essential for comfort so I'm told) you're only about £250 less than a http://www.santacruzbikes.co.uk/frames/heckler/heckler.html with Deore.
The Chameleon looks like it'll have a harsh rear end but I'm not convinced about using a carbon post on a "hardcore" hardtail. I have a carbon post of my lightweight hardtail but I wouldn't want to use it on any of the bikes that I ride at Glentress or get air on, although if you're lighter than me it'll probably be less of a problem.
For comfort on all-day rides then a steel hardtail would be a better choice than the Chameleon IMHO.
Posted on: 01 June 2004 by Steve G
BTW Heckler frames are often available around £400 or so 2nd hand, as are other quality full-sussers.
The chap I borrowed the Vanillas off had them available as he'd just sold the frame they'd been fitted to. It was a mint Orange Sub-5 with a Fox Float R shock and a Thompson post - all for £450. You could build a very nice bike up from that for £1-1.5K or so.
Posted on: 01 June 2004 by Tom F
Steve
Sweeeeeeet bike.
Am now so jealous.
PS was in your (general) part of the world at the weekend. Am also jealous of the wonderful countryside (albeit seen through a haze of single malt.....).
Posted on: 01 June 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Tom F:
_Steve_
Sweeeeeeet bike.
Thanks!
quote:
Am now so jealous.
[QUOTE]PS was in your (general) part of the world at the weekend. Am also jealous of the wonderful countryside (albeit seen through a haze of single malt.....).
Where about were you? The weather was lovely in most places on Sunday - I was in Glencoe topping up the blisters and sunburn on Buchaille Etive Beag.
Posted on: 01 June 2004 by Tom F
quote:
Where about were you?
Actually, not that near Edinburgh. We were near Dundee (well, just south of the Tay en route to St Andrews at Fernie Castle) for friends' wedding.
It was the first time I'd been to Scotland for a long time and we had an opportunity to see more of the place by driving up the M6 to Glasgow and across omn Saturday and then, on Monday (day after the wedding - are Sunday weddings usual north of the border?), we drove back through St Andrews (watched a bit of the Amatuer Champs on the Old Course) to Kirkcaldy and then over the Forth Road Bridge to Edinburgh before dropping down to Galashiels.
From Galashiels we went through the Borders to Carlisle and saw the mnost fantastic countryside. Had we not had to be back for work today, we would probably have taken the bikes and gone to Glentress. I guess that's for another time (although I will insist on it being during this summer).
Apart from the hangovers (that Isle of Jura is strong stuff), it was a great trip to a wonderful part of the UK.
Posted on: 01 June 2004 by Steve G
I've fixed the saddle position, changed the forks to 125mm Fox Vanilla R's and given the bike a run on my local trails this evening - so an excuse for a few more pictures! My run took considerably longer that usual as well due to taking the drink bottle off for every photo op' - I hope Matthew will be happy...
This was the first time I'd used Fox Vanillas (although one of my bikes has Fox Floats) and I was very impressed - they were super plush and suited the bike really well.
Posted on: 02 June 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Brownnutt:
Steve
Glad you liked the Vanillas.
Your local trails look good. The wooded bits look like the trails near me. (Although obviously my ones are a lot more rugged 
)
My legs still hurt a bit from hillwalking at the weekend so I stuck to the easier stuff last night (although the rootier areas were bloody slippery). I don't usually take pics on the more rugged descents though as they're too much fun so I never stop part way (unless I fall off!).
Posted on: 10 June 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Brownnutt:
Steve
Glad you liked the Vanillas.
I liked them enough that the chap that loaned them to me has now been persuaded to sell them - so they're staying put!
Posted on: 14 June 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Brownnutt:
Steve
I just bought some too. Mine are going to be attached to one of these:
Is that a Heckler?
Posted on: 14 June 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Brownnutt:
quote:
Is that a Heckler?
Yep. It's currently being built. I'm getting the lowest spec one. Deore bits but Hope hubs and brakes.
Nice. One of the chaps I ride with is considering getting a Heckler as he wants something burlier than his Epic for places like Glentress and Innerleithen.
A Heckler with Hope wheels & hubs, Vanilla R's (which are excellent - very plush) and Deore sounds like a fine general purpose bike if you don't suffer too much on the hills.
Posted on: 24 June 2004 by Dan M
More 853 mtb pics...
Posted on: 24 June 2004 by Dan M
another
Posted on: 24 June 2004 by Dan M
note Italian Celeste bottle cage
Posted on: 25 June 2004 by Mekon
Steve, do keep the updates coming. I'm keen to hear how well the Soul can handle the bigger stuff. I am 6'2, how do you think one of the new 21" would sit with an BMX stem? Would going super short on the stem negate the benefits of the forward balance of the geometry?
I've recently found a copse full of ultra-technical 30 second downhills, all bermed up. The place reminds me of Chicksands before the builders got busy. The B17 makes them too easy, so I tried a couple on my mates commuter bike running tiny Vredestein S-licks at about 105 psi. Awesome fun, I am tempted to put some on the Marin for a laugh.
Posted on: 25 June 2004 by matthewr
"I've recently found a copse full of ultra-technical 30 second downhills, all bermed up"
I found something very similar yesterday -- a small wood next to Hampstead Heath that is full of natural (and a few not so natural) bombholes, jumps and berms. Huge fun but sadly it's not legal and I guess it would be full of dog walkers and middle-aged Gayers at the weekend and basically unrideable. Rather annoyingly you are allowed to ride horses there -- and on much of Hampstead Heath -- though which seems unfair if they ban bikes.
That thing that I did to my chainset I did again as well. It's wobbling about and the chain is rubbing aginst the fron mech again. I guess I just need to tighten it up but it's going to be very annoying if it keeps doing this.
"the bigger stuff" "BMX stem"
You know there is an even more aggresive version of the Stiffee called the Foreplay? Has a smaller frame, tighter geometry and is even more built up. Basically a BMX/Street/Dirt bike with a triple and 26" wheels.
See
http://www.covebike.com/foreplay.htmMatthew
Posted on: 25 June 2004 by matthewr
PS Nice bike Dan. Is that a monogram on your frame? Like with Mick's shirts?
