MTB Thread: Soul v Inbred

Posted by: Steve G on 28 May 2004

There was a bit of interest in how my Cotic Soul compared to the On-One Inbred it replaced, so after my first proper ride I thought I'd create a new thread for my thoughts.







I only did 11 miles of my local trails but some impressions were already making themselves felt.

1) It's livlier than the Inbred was and feels lighter to ride (even if it's actually only about half a pound or so lighter).

2) It climbs better than the Inbred and is perhaps the most comfortable out of the saddle bike I've ever ridden.

3) The steeper head angle (it's corrected for 100mm-125mm forks instead of the 80-100mm of the Inbred) really makes itself felt with very fast steering with the 105mm Bombers currently fitted. It nearly caught me out a few times and I had several front end slides. It felt nice though but when I go to 125mm forks (a friend is loaning me a set of 125mm Fox Vanillas to try as I'm trying to decide between them and the travel adjustable Talas) I think it should be just about ideal for me.

I really liked my Inbred (which is killer value at £225) but the Soul feels great so far and when tweaked (the saddle angle is way out as I haven't changed it from when it was on the Inbred) and made some spec changes (125mm forks, titanium railed saddle, XT chainset) I think it's going to be spot on.

The Soul is £400 and the Inbred £225 and both represent great value. The Soul has more expensive tubing (Reynolds 853) which means it's lighter but the differences between then will probably narrow slightly as On-One are releasing a version of the Inbred corrected for forks in the 100mm-150mm range (one of my buddies is on the waiting list for one so I'll get a chance to try it).

Anyway I'm going to give the Soul a few weeks in its current spec (e.g. the same spec as the Inbred had) before deciding how I want to spec it long term, but I'm really, really looking forward to throwing it at Glentress and Innerleithen sometime soon!
Posted on: 15 July 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Robinson:
I think you mean "stickers". "decals" are something Airfix nerds use.


Cotic refer to them as decals. Not being an Airfix nerd I wouldn't know the difference, although I did help my son build an Airfix model red arrows jet a month or so back!

I was on the Cotic site looking at colour options and if I were buying new I'd have difficulty choosing either the orange with blue decals, or the matt black with grey decals.

Mine looks good in sort of XTR grey though.
Posted on: 15 July 2004 by Tom F
quote:
So what colour & decals and what's the build going to be then? I managed to put a decent spec together for mine by buying several bits used.


Black, Red Decals (although not trying to tread on SO's toes since her bike is bright red with black decals - Trek 4500), disc only.

Not sure on the build tbh, but likely to take place over a period of time (winter) and be to a fairly strict budget. Likely to be Deore/Marzocchi MX/Avid Mech disc based, poss with s/h parts with a view to a longer term upgrade.

As most people are sick of hearing, I am currently suporting the SO through the final, unfunded, year of her PhD (she's now writing her thesis) and so buying bikes/components is, sadly, low down the list of priorities. However, crucially, she is not ideologically opposed to the idea of a new bike and has accepted that something not off-the-peg is what is required.

On that basis I hope to get the frame in the next month or two and then see what bargains the winter sales bring up and what s/h gear starts going on STW.
Posted on: 15 July 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Tom F:
Not sure on the build tbh, but likely to take place over a period of time (winter) and be to a fairly strict budget. Likely to be Deore/Marzocchi MX/Avid Mech disc based, poss with s/h parts with a view to a longer term upgrade.


I've a used set of '03 105mm MX Comp ETA's if you're interested.

quote:
As most people are sick of hearing, I am currently suporting the SO through the final, unfunded, year of her PhD (she's now writing her thesis) and so buying bikes/components is, sadly, low down the list of priorities.


I've just bought a motorhome so, on top of other recent expenditures, I reckon my bike purchases will also be curtailed in future. Not too big a problem though as my bikes are more or less where I want them.

quote:
On that basis I hope to get the frame in the next month or two and then see what bargains the winter sales bring up and what s/h gear starts going on STW.


I get nearly all my used kit from STW but you need to move quickly to secure the bargains. I've had a few good results - MX Comp ETAs/Inbred frame/Race Face stem for £200, XT rear mech for £25, Hope XC/Mavic 317 wheels for £75 plus the Soul for £150 plus the Inbred frame. Given you've got the time I think you'll be able to put together a good build for under £1K no problem.
Posted on: 15 July 2004 by Tom F
quote:
I've a used set of '03 105mm MX Comp ETA's if you're interested.


Would definitely be interested. Are you looking to sell soonish or in less of a rush? Perhaps it would be better to discuss via PM.

quote:
Given you've got the time I think you'll be able to put together a good build for under £1K no problem.


That's the plan. Actually, if I go down the s/h mail order route I reckon it's quite doable for that sort of figure. I guess the secret is not to be too drawn in by pimpy gear. Will have to see if the SO can land herself a job for when the thesis is done....
Posted on: 15 July 2004 by Steve G
No rush on the forks. I'm not actively selling them but if I don't get shot of them at some point I'll be tempted to get another bike to wrap round them... Smile

I reckon my Cotic cost a shade under £900 for its current build. I saved a bit with the 2nd hand frame, however there are a few luxury bits which pushed the cost up and I could easily have got a decent spec together for £750 or so.
Posted on: 15 July 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Tom F:
I guess the secret is not to be too drawn in by pimpy gear.


That's definitely for the best. Easton EA50 is great value finishing kit. Deore is ok although I think LX is often the best value of the Shimano range (in particular LX shifters feel considerably better than Deore to me, although my old Deore ones never let me down). Deore disc hubs are pretty good and even laced to Mavic 717 rims they tend not to be expensive especially from places like Merlin). Avids mechanicals can be had for £100 a pair (including levers) but I managed to get a couple of pairs for £50 a go 2nd hand. Merlin often do disc & wheel sets for £150 or so. Conti Verts are only £13 a pop - bargain. Forks are easy to get 2nd hand and often around half the new price - the only new ones I've ever had have come on bikes I've bought.
Posted on: 15 July 2004 by Mekon
Ah, but the trick bits are too nice. My current wish-spec for my (£230 quid frame) Prince Albert doesn't leave much change from £1500, and that's with the £50 disc deal from CRC.

I am thinking a bit of Diabolus here, a bit of Hussefelt there, and EA-50 and XT to finish it off. The bit that looks pricey is the Hope Bulb wheelset I want. I am currently debating going bashring Hussefelt/Saint/Diabolus, or being sensible and sticking with XT hollowtech II. I've broken square taper axles, and rounded out umpteen crank tapers, so I want something burly, but the talk of dodgy ISIS BBs has be nervous. My mate reckons his Gigapipe DH has been great, and it's more affordable than the other chunky options. Talk sense to me Steve!

I did want the Cotic, but the recently reported frame death on STW, and the talk of super-thin wall thicknesses makes me doubt its suitability for more core stuff. I bail pretty much every ride, and I don't want to be worrying about dings.
Posted on: 15 July 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Mekon:
Talk sense to me Steve!


I don't think I'm the right man to do it mate - a quick look in the garage this evening and I noticed that as well as the spare MX Comp ETA's I've also got a set of lightweight (sub-3lb) Manitou Mars Elites, an Easton EA70 stem, an Easton EA50 stem, a Thompson Elite seatpost, an XTR rear mech, an XT chainset and BB and a USE Alien carbon seatpost all lying around unused! Time to build MTB no.4 I think...

Did score a top bargain today though. Aldi were selling wireless (for the wheel sensor and HRM belt) bike fit HRM's for £15 and they actually don't look that bad. Fitted one to my Epic before tonights ride and I was quite impressed. It shows 4 bits of info at any one time (usually HR, current speed, trip distance and trip time but it can also show various averages plus temperature). So I now know that tonights 12 mile Pentlands outing was done at an average speed of 8.6mph and a top speed of 29.6mph, with an average HR of 137 and a max of 185! Plus I know that at the top of one sunny climb the temperature was 18.6 degrees and in the next valley it was 15.8! Is the slippery slope to becoming a roadie I wonder...

Anyway Easton EA50 is great stuff and an LX/XT mix (XT mechs, LX chainset and shifters) works well enough that I haven't changed from those on my no.1 bike yet, despite having the upgraded bits lying around already. For your purposes though I'd find that chainset/bash ring setup that Mr. Smith (the chap with the powder blue Prince Albert prototype) uses very tempting. Hope Bulbs would be nice but they're pricey - the Hope XC on my Epic works well but perhaps also not burly enough for your needs. I wouldn't personally touch ISIS with a bargepole but the Saint stuff might well suit your needs.

All these decisions...

quote:
I did want the Cotic, but the recently reported frame death on STW, and the talk of super-thin wall thicknesses makes me doubt its suitability for more core stuff. I bail pretty much every ride, and I don't want to be worrying about dings.


Fair enough. Even if you do break the PA then it's not as if it'd be expensive to replace, although Cy from Cotic did seem to sort that chap who bust his Soul recently out with a good deal on a replacement very promptly.

I saw on STW that the first production PA frames are now in the country so are you due to get yours soon?
Posted on: 15 July 2004 by Mekon
I've told my better half that I'll wait until I finish my DPhil. I've got about 2 1/2 months left. The PA will be a reward for finishing my doctorate / starting my post-doc. What I don't want to do is miss the current cheap deal Mike is doing, so if there is any danger of that, it might have to go on the credit card.

I did see that Cy sorted the guy, which is more than fair.
Posted on: 15 July 2004 by Dan M
quote:
Originally posted by alexgerrard:
Frown

Mekon, have mercy! So what's your thesis topic, and where will you do your post-doc?

Dan
Posted on: 16 July 2004 by matthewr
"I am currently debating going bashring Hussefelt/Saint/Diabolus, or being sensible and sticking with XT hollowtech II"

As well as Diablous RacaFace do one called the Atlas which is an "X-Type" (ie external bearing non-ISIS) crankset more or less midway between the Diablous and XT in terms of the strenght/weight trade-off. It's still Diabolous money though so absurdly expensive.

I like Truvativ stuff which strikes me as good value and well made with the all-important street cred. Their Holzfeller flat pedals look gorgeous (esp. in the flesh) although they are a bit pricey at £60.



Matthew
Posted on: 16 July 2004 by Tom F
Steve

quote:
I've just bought a motorhome


Sounds very cool. Is it a massive, bis-sized vehicle or more of a VW camper?

quote:
No rush on the forks. I'm not actively selling them but


Drop me a line when/if you're thinking of not succumbing to a new bike....

In fact, I think almost all of the items you mention are going to find their way onto the bike (unless, of course, the pay rise in September is decent, which I doubt). For me, though, it will still be 'high end' - current bike is 12 years old, is fully rigid, runs canti brakesand only has half-indexed gears.

Mekon

quote:
Ah, but the trick bits are too nice. My current wish-spec for my (£230 quid frame) Prince Albert doesn't leave much change from £1500


Tell me about it! I did a spec for a decent build and frightened myself so much I spent another few weeks trying out plenty more ill fitting OTS bikes in search of 'value'. Eventually, however, the thought of something built by me became too strong. It's all I can do to avoid fighting the urge to wield the credit card now!

quote:
I've told my better half that I'll wait until I finish my DPhil. I've got about 2 1/2 months left


I've said the same to mine. Well sort of: I told her I'd hold off until she has finished her PhD. She looks set to get the thesis in by end of Sept (last available hand-in date for her), and then it looks like she has a job lined up (albeit not a post-doc) for the start of October.

I hope your writing up goes smoothly in the interim & like the fact that you consider a new bike a better reward than being called Doctor. Does everyone who does a doctorate feel like this at the end?

Alex G

quote:
Frown


Sorry. Will stop talking bikes now. Hope the injuries are healing quickly.
Posted on: 16 July 2004 by Mekon
quote:
Originally posted by Tom F:
I hope your writing up goes smoothly in the interim & like the fact that you consider a new bike a better reward than being called Doctor. Does everyone who does a doctorate feel like this at the end?


Yeah, it seems so. I am so bored of editing, reanalysing data, and formatting, that every day is a struggle. No one is going to read it, and the people who need to know what I've found already know. I have to pay £180 if I run into October. That is a tidy set of cranks, so I don't want that to happen.

Cheers Matthew, I will have a look. I just want a pair of cranks that won't break, and don't require new BBs very other month. You would think it wouldn't be that hard.

Alex, sorry. Hope you are starting to feel better.
Posted on: 16 July 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Tom F:
_Steve_

quote:
I've just bought a motorhome


Sounds very cool. Is it a massive, bis-sized vehicle or more of a VW camper?


It's on the smaller size of in-between. It's a 6.5m long, 3m high 6-berth thing with fixed bunks for the kids and a garage for the bikes. I'm supposed to be picking it up tomorrow, after which I've got to drive the 140 miles home up the A68 despite never even having driven a motorhome before!
Posted on: 16 July 2004 by Tom F
quote:
I am so bored of editing, reanalysing data, and formatting, that every day is a struggle.


I would say "not long now" but that will only bring on other, deadline associated stress. Anyway, I should think most people find it more frustrating that, after all that writing, some external examiner has the temerity to suggest a few corrections in the viva. Try to resist the urge to punch them if that happens!

quote:
It's a 6.5m long, 3m high 6-berth thing with fixed bunks for the kids and a garage for the bikes.


Sounds ideal as the Naim Forum MTB tour bus....
Posted on: 16 July 2004 by Steve G
quote:
Originally posted by Tom F:
quote:
It's a 6.5m long, 3m high 6-berth thing with fixed bunks for the kids and a garage for the bikes.


Sounds ideal as the Naim Forum MTB tour bus....


There are plans to visit all the 7-stanes locations plus Fort William, so if you folks can get yourselves and your bikes up to civilization...
Posted on: 16 July 2004 by matthewr
I was thinking of heading up that way in August when I do my annual Grand Tour of the the North. I really fancy the look of that trail with all the Granite in Dalbeattie.

Depends how much time I have though as I have a lot to fit in with trips to North Wales, the Peaks, Manchester and my family.

Matthew
Posted on: 16 July 2004 by Tom F
quote:
I really fancy the look of that trail with all the Granite in Dalbeattie


Was thinking of legging it up there tomorrow (a bit of a drive but not unreasonable from Manchester). Alas, work seems to think otherwise, so I'll have to spend another weekend dreaming about what the great outdoors looks like.