inter-speaker distance

Posted by: davidf on 16 December 2000

Just today I spent a couple of hours changing the distance between by speakers (Linn 5140`s). Previously, my speakers were about 9.5 feet apart and now they are 8 feet apart- along a 20 foot wall (the short wall if you can believe it). I believe the sound has tightened up-more of a single wall of sound. I would like to know if there is a general rule as to the sound traits that occur related to inter-speaker distance. That is, what type of things are likely to go wrong if the speakers are too far apart, and conversely, what are the problems if the speakers are too close together? Are you better to err one way or the other? Rest of system is lp12/ekos/rega exact/ cdx/nat01/82/supercap/250 and linn 5150 sub. Thanks,david.

Posted on: 17 December 2000 by Former member

Hi David,
Speaker placement is something that I've spend an enormous (and often frustrating!) amount of time on. It's very important and can be very rewarding. No component or upgrade can compensate for ill speaker positioning, bad mains supply or poor room acoustics to name some fundamentals.

It's a complicated thing and highly situation and taste dependant. In general you are looking for the best compromise between the width and depth of soundstage (yes, this is Round Earth stuff! ). Some very rough rules of thumb might be of help.

- The distance between the speakers as such is less important as the relation between their inter-distance vs. the distance to your listening position. Ideally this 'triangle' should be nearly equal sided. The distance to your listening position can and may longer but not vice versa ( the speakers further apart than the distance to your listening position). For example my speakers are 8 ft. apart and the distance to my listening position is 10 ft.

- Increasing the distance between the speakers makes the soundstage wider (obviously) but flattens it at the same time. The speakers are to far apart when either a.) you experience a kind of 'hole' in the centre where you hear less than on both sides of it or b.) the musicians get pulled apart too far and coherence clearly starts to suffer (less music but 4 musicians playing separately). At this point there will be not much depth left either so you're in *very* Flat Earth country.

- Yes good guess, DEcreasing the distance between de speakers makes the soudstage deeper but less wide. Sounds simple eh?.. The speakers are to close when the soundstage gets dense and narrow to a point that separation of musicians/instruments clearly degrades or disappears. A thick wall of sound with less or little detail will be the result. This will increase the sense of dynamics and power though.

- The sweet spot is at the best compromise between these two phenomena that gives the most natural sound to your ears.

Speaker toe-in plays an important role here too. Although NOT the same, more toe-in has a more-or-less comparable effect to narrowing the distance between the speakers. Less toe-in vice versa. To some extent you can 'compensate' a bigger distance between the speakers with more toe-in and the other way around. Toe-in behaviour is even more speaker specific than their inter-distance.

I say again that this are some very general tips and by no means 'mandatory laws' on speaker positioning.

BTW, on the Cardas website (www.cardas.com) is some interesting info on speaker positioning vs. room shape and size too.

Happy shuffling!

Richard

Posted on: 17 December 2000 by davidf

Thanks alot richard, that was an excellent post. I sit about 9 feet from the speakers, so I will keep them 8 feet apart for now. It is a big hassle for me to move them due to the presence of linn Skeets under the spikes which I adhere to the hardwood floor with double sided tape so there is no movement. Each time I want to move the speakers I have to remove the adhesive from the floor and then of course I have to re-level the speakers which itself takes a bit of time. I find the skeets an excellent way to couple the speakers to the floor (as well as my equipment stands as well).
It is amazing how much difference can be made my just moving the speakers a bit closer together. I have found that one has to live with any kind of change in the equipment position for a few weeks before deciding what position is best. Never make snap judgements! Thanks, again. David.

Posted on: 17 December 2000 by Rockingdoc

Sorry chaps, but I don't think there is a formula.
For years I have followed the accepted 'ideal' triangle placement, with poor reslts in my present 22 foot by 10 foot rectanglar listening room. My speakers are Wilson Audio Watt/Puppies. Recently I decided to defy convention, turned the whole room around and placed the speakers at each end of the 22 foot wall playing to a central position against the opposite wall. It shouldn't work but the improvement has been huge.

Clearly there was some kind of standing-wave problem or similar with the conventional set-up, but there is nothing odd about the room to have predicted this.

My advice is to try all the extreme positions in case you are missing a magical placement
Malcolm

Posted on: 17 December 2000 by Thomas K

Hey Richard, not a bad post!

And how’s that CDX/82 combo getting on? I just upgraded from a 72 to an 82, and while the difference wasn’t much to brag about at the beginning, the 82 really began to sing after about 4 days hooked up to the mains. Amazing bass, the space around the notes is much blacker, and string instruments have begun to sound like the real thing at last. I’ve only heard a “cold” 52 once, and I’m glad because my savings have been depleted enormously since I fell for Naim.

David,

Inter-speaker distance: I suppose while most of what Richard said applies in most cases, the room and the type of speaker probably account for a lot … I got good results with one of those test CDs by XLO – it has an out-of-phase track which you can play while you move the speakers around. When the out-of-phase effect is very pronounced, your speakers will be in a position where normal music will sound focused and coherent.

Thomas

Posted on: 18 December 2000 by Former member

quote:
And how's that CDX/82 combo getting on?

I don't know Thomas, haven't bought that one yet...

No seriously, I only 'upgraded' from a decade of tube-gear to a humble CDX/102/180 combo. Simply awesome. Amazing how the sound keeps opening up and refines more and more for nearly three weeks in a row now.

Richard.

Posted on: 18 December 2000 by Thomas K

Richard,

Sorry, my memory is going downhill – just one of those things when you get past 30. Forgot to mention that my 82 is used, so it’s basically run in. When my 72/Hi/140 were new, the sound kept improving over the course of – I kid you not – 2 months, so the grin on your face may become wider still ...

Thomas