Yassir Arafat

This hospital visit is becoming more interesting by the day and I'm wondering whether Suha Aaraft has stitched up the Palestinians by getting her husband treated in France.

It turns out (according to The Canadian Press) that it was she who arranged for the French military plane to fly Arafat from Jordan.

Now, it is widely believed that Arafat has a large fortune stashed away in a number of bank accounts, stocks, shares, etc. Estimates put the amount at between $0.5 billion and $6 billion. It is also a fact that the French authorities are investigating alleged transfers of about $10 million to Suha's bank account from a number of foreign bank accounts.

Of course, under French law Suha has the authority to be in charge of his finances, a situation that would certainly not apply in Palestine. Is it crazy to surmise that she has done some sort of a deal with the French Authorities over accessing his fortune?

The French would never stitch up their Palestinian friends for money, would they?

Steve M

Steve,

reviewers in Israel clued that the relations between Suha and the French people are strange in the connection to Arafat's situation.
The money that Suha takes to her bank account, is by part from the taxes you are paying to your government (as it came from Europe to aid the Palestinians). If it helps, you can feel good of helping a blond widow living a good life in Europe...

Arye

Earlier this evening I saw Hanan Ashrawi on CNN, and she was most annoyed about Suha Arafat's behaviour - i.e. failing to keep Palestinians informed of Yasser Arafat's condition and failing to allow, until now, other Palestinians to visit him.

Meanwhile, Suha Arafat says (according to CNN) that other Palestinian leaders are conspiring to steal power from her husband. She says he is alive and will be returning to his homeland.

This surprises me: I somehow assumed he would be returning to (the future) Palestine.

I was pretty sure that Arafat is already dead. However, there's another strange thing about this saga ...
He doesn't look like he's dying to me.
As far as I know, this photograph was taken in Jordan, en-route to Paris. Arafat must have already been ill enough to require the hospital trip when the picture was taken.

Steve M.

Steve,
It is funny how people see things in a different way: The old woman who is selling me sanswich every day on my way to work, told me two weeks ago after seeing Arafat going from the Mukata to Jordan, that he has a fcae of a dying person, and she is sure that he is going to die.

Arye

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Originally posted by bjorne:
Just heard on the news that Yassir Arafat is braindead, something the palestinian authorities deny. What will happen now with the israeli/palestinian "conflict"? Can we hope for peaceful solutions or will anarchy spread even more?

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Question: How can you tell?

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Originally posted by Arye_Gur:
It is funny how people see things in a different way: The old woman who is selling me sanswich every day on my way to work, told me two weeks ago after seeing Arafat going from the Mukata to Jordan, that he has a fcae of a dying person, and she is sure that he is going to die.

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Your sandwich woman was right and I'm wrong on that one. The hospital has announced a 'worsening' of his condition, in advance of his visit by the '3 wise men' today (Ahmed Qureia, Mahmoud Abbas and Nabil Shaath - who are presumably visiting to find out wtf is going on).

I think he's dead but, if he isn't, he'll certainly keel over when he sees the bill from the French hospital.

Arafat's Condition Worsens - Reuters

Steve M

You think or you wish?

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Originally posted by JonR:
You think or you wish?

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Jon,

I despise Arafat and make no secret of my wish to see him dead.

However, the most important thing is that the Palestinians don't descend into anarchy and that they can get behind a strong and hopefully peace-loving new leader.

Steve M

Steve,

Thanks for your reply.

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Originally posted by 7V:
[I despise Arafat and make no secret of my wish to see him dead.

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Whilst I understand the above sentiment I, personally speaking, am unsettled by the idea of wishing death on anyone - you reap what you sow, etc.

Doubtless, however, his death would pave the way for a different approach, at least, on behalf of the Palestinians but then again, until he is succeeded by a new leader and we know the intentions of that leader, how can we tell?

JR

quote:

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I despise Arafat and make no secret of my wish to see him dead.

However, the most important thing is that the Palestinians don't descend into anarchy and that they can get behind a strong and hopefully peace-loving new leader.

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I think you already have your first wish Steve, your second wish may just be wishfull thinking. I fear for the Palestinians after the demise of Arafat. His greatest ability was to keep the Palestinians together.

quote:

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Originally posted by JonR:
Whilst I understand the above sentiment I, personally speaking, am unsettled by the idea of wishing death on anyone - you reap what you sow, etc.

Doubtless, however, his death would pave the way for a different approach, at least, on behalf of the Palestinians but then again, until he is succeeded by a new leader and we know the intentions of that leader, how can we tell?

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Jon,

Of course we can't tell. However, I'm of the opinion that peace could not be achieved with Arafat therefore any change gives a better chance. My fervent hope is that both sides are now thoroughly exhausted by the killing and ready to move on.

Generally, I agree with your sentiment above about wishing death on anyone. However, please understand that I make a special case for this man.

Steve M

"His greatest ability was to keep the Palestinians together"

Hmm. He was corrupt, weak and unable to contribute meaningfully to a peaceful settlement. He did retain a certain amount popularity with what we might loosely call ordinary Paletinians but he long ago lost any influence with the people who matter (not least Hamas) and if he hadn't have died would probably have been deposed anyway before too long.

See http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1345580,00.html

Matthew

NB wrote:

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Arafat. His greatest ability was to keep the Palestinians together.

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Quite so. But also a common enemy, and the uprising against it, keeps the Palestinians united. If I have understood it right, during the few calm years before the current infitada there where cracks beginning to show up inside the Palestinian community. Like between the Muslim part and the Christian part. Now they are all friends again...

JohanR

The time has come for the Palestinians to accept the reality of the Israel situation. They have no more chance of getting the land given to the Jews by the UN in their 1947 resolution than the Jews have of getting back the lands taken from them by the Europeans in the Nazi era up to 1945. What's done is done.

UN Resolution 242 states (amongst other things) that:

"Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force"

(in other words - security and recognition for all states)

and

"Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict"

(this means the 1967 conflict)

Note that the charter is deliberately worded such that Israel is not required to withdraw from ALL territories occupied in 1967. Nor should they be. The Arab states effectively invaded and were repelled in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973 and it would be virtually unknown for any country to return all the land that it occupied under those circumstances. This is particularly true when such land is required for defensive buffer or strategic purposes (the Golan Heights come to mind here).

Nevertheless, I believe that with a firm hand from the USA, a willingness for strong negotiation by the Palestinians and guarantees all round, peace and a viable Palestinian state could be achieved. It would be even more viable if Jordan was prepared to give the Palestinians some of their land that it controls. I don't believe that the refugee problem is insurmountable either.

There will be difficulties with East Jerusalem but my own view FWIW is that, at some future date when everything else has been settled and achieved, East Jerusalem could become an 'International' state like The Vatican or Luxemburg. This could be part of current negotiations.

Sorted, mate and to paraphrase a common Jewish phrase: "From my keyboard to God's ear".

Arye, do you think that Israel would go that far under the right conditions?

Steve M

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Arafat. His greatest ability was to keep the Palestinians together.

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I don't know how to say in English - "separate and rule" but this is exactly what Arafat did. He financed and encouraged groups of criminals and terrorists in order to stay on his chair. Because of his activity, there are a lot of groups with weapon in the Palestinians territory. The fear of anarchism there is because of this reason and because of the way that Arafat grew this system.

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Arye, do you think that Israel would go that far under the right conditions?

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The first question is what makes Sharon changing his mind in such a way? The answer is that it seems that he understands that the future of Israel depends on a complete separation between Israel and the Palestinians. Sharon takes the Likud to the centre of the political map.
Ehud Barak, comes back to the political business and is saying that now Israel and the Palestinians can go for the agreement he was ready to make in Sharm about 4 years back.
I do hope that the situation now will be better for agreement with the Palestinians.
I want to believe to reviewers here who are saying that there will be an order in the Palestinians territory. When I hear Palestinians officials speaking on the radio,
they are all saying that they want democracy and elections by vote.


Arye

As they seem to be planning to bury him on Friday and Islamic law states that he should be buried within 24 hours of his death, I suspect that Arafat will die tomorrow (Thursday).

Truly, the theatre of the absurd.

Steve M

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Originally posted by 7V:
Truly, the theatre of the absurd.

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Too right, Steve.

Wouldn't his wife have to agree to switch off the life support machine first?

JR

JR

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Originally posted by 7V:
As they seem to be planning to bury him on Friday and Islamic law states that he should be buried within 24 hours of his death, I suspect that Arafat will die tomorrow (Thursday).

Truly, the theatre of the absurd.

Steve M

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...... and it was announced this morning he was dead.

Yes...
on news here they are saying that he was dead for two days but they waited...

Arye

Looks like you got your wish, Steve

JR

Yasser Arafat is to be buried wearing an old England shirt with the number 8 on it. Apparently his last words were "bury me in the Gazza strip".

Kevin

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Originally posted by JonR:
Looks like you got your wish, Steve

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I thought he was an evil shit and I couldn't stand him. However, since they announced his death, I've found myself intermittently in floods of tears. Weird. Maybe it's relief or hope, I don't know.

Anyway, his life was a lie and, at the end, even his death was a lie.

Will we ever know the truth of what killed him? Poisoned by Mossad? Aids? Seeing his wife again? Who knows?

Did anyone manage to get the bank account numbers?

I can't wait to see the movie.

Steve M

[This message was edited by 7V on Thu 11 November 2004 at 12:04.]