OK, so many people have said such good things about it that I accept that it isn't, but so far I’m very disappointed.
I’ve been running a lingo/ittok into 82/140/kef Q30s with very good results.
Anyway, about a month ago I replaced my 10X4 with an XX1L. Having heard all about the detail, the slam, the balls, the musical involvement, I could hardly wait to get it onto the Ittok and hear it do its thang. Unfortunately it sounds crap, and any help and advice would be greatly appreciated.
Here’s how the story goes. Started with S boards (all I had at the time), and compared to the 10X the XX1L certainly sounded more refined, less messy at the top end and had a greater sense of detail and space, while at the same time contriving to sound recessed, dtnamically flat and bass light. Still, I wasn’t panicking yet. It just needs to break in, best to be patient. It will open out. I need K boards too.
K boards arrived, but brought very little improvement that I could hear, still sounding flat and uninspiring. Concluded it still needed more breaking in.
On Monday night I decided to give Ben Harper’s Fight for your mind a listen (bought this ages ago but somehow never got around to it) on CD. I use a Teac VRDS10 for my occasional forays into digital, and I was very surprised to hear it sounding superb, easily better than my lp12 – not just bass and shit like that, it was so vital, and very live, quite edge of seat in a good way, and times like a fLIcker too.
Listened to loads of music this week, and every time I’ve put a record on I’ve been disappointed. Last night I decided to put the 10X4 back on and found it far more inspiring, up front and exciting. Cymbals have the sound of live cymabals, rather than ones hit under a duvet, guitar has leading edges and if less subtle, it’s certainly more involving.
Now, this doesn’t make much sense to me. Am I doing something wrong? The possible explanations that I can come up with are:
1. misalignment – really needs to be spot on to make it sing (which it isn’t quite). Can’t really see this making that much diff though
2. mismatch – big heavy cart and ittok don’t get on
3. needs more break in ( though must be at 30 hours or so by now)
4. RFI (How exactly does this show itself? I don’t pick up Radio North Korea or anything)
5. Cartridge is duff to begin with and needs to be sent back.
6. It’s pants. (Or at least I don’t get on with what it does)
Anyone be kind enough to help me out?
JonM
Posted on: 05 October 2000 by Frank Abela
Jonathan,
Straight up, the Ittok can't cope with the weight of the XX-1L. The arm's only designed for a maximum of about 9 grams I believe (might even be 8). So what's happening is that the arm can't locate the cartridge properly and it totally buggers up the sound.
Since you like the sound of the 10x4, you're more than likely a candidate for the XX-1L Appreciation Society. Your options are therefore:
1. Buy a better arm such as an ARO. This will bring about other benefits such as better resolution and detail, much better frequency extremes and a total lack of grain in the treble.
2. Stick with the Ittok and replace the cartridge with either a 17D2 (around 5 grams) or a Te Kaitora (8.8grams). The problem with the latter is twofold. 1 - it's expensive. 2 - the Ittok won't allow the Te Kaitora to breathe properly to give of its supreme fidelity. Therefore the Te Kaitora would be an interim solution until you got yourself an ARO! 
Grim reading I know, but I believe it's truth.
Regards,
Frank.
Posted on: 05 October 2000 by Phil Barry
I've owned a 62, 72, 82, 140, 250, etc., and the ARO is the single best hifi investment I've ever made. With the ARO, one goes from hifi to music. Although the 'hifi' is better with the ARO, much more important is the sense of real music being played. The feeling can't be described, it has to be experienced.
Other arms have their partisans. Some participants in this forum (can you believe it?) dislike the ARO intensely. It may very well be that another super arm may be more to your liking than the ARO. But I think Ivor (and Julian?) said it best years ago: first the 'table, then the arm, then the cartridge.
The Ittok is a great arm (assuming it's healthy, of course). It provides great satisfaction. But if you can afford the expense, listen to a super arm.
Phil
Posted on: 05 October 2000 by Jon Moxon
Many thanks for the help about possible problems. A few comments and replies:
Vuk:
From what many have written here (including yourself), I thought that the K boards would be much better. There was a difference which I can't characterise off hand. I remember being pretty underwhelmed, but I may have had my perceptions clouded by the expectation of improvement. On reflection it may perhaps have been worse: it's a few weeks ago now. At the time I put it down to the amp being powered down for a couple of hours (did the cable-clip snip at the same time) and thought it would sort itself out as it warmed up again.
I tried the flux damper on and off with both S and K and prefered it on in both cases. It seemed to bring things together more. Everything was more focused, sweeter etc. PRaT was fairly bad either way.
Re the 5 second break-in, could you describe how it changed over that time? ;-)
Paul:
Although I could mess with VTA etc I can't really imagine it making that much difference either. I was beginning to think it might be a Friday afternoon cartridge myself, although the frequency response plot that came with it was remarkably flat. As flat as the sound in fact.
(BTW, what time do you get into work? Your posts always seem to start appearing as I'm thinking about packing up to go home home - about 7am BST.)
Frank, John & Phil:
If it is a mismatch made in hell, then it's grim news indeed. Much as I would like to replace the arm, an Aro's a bit out of the question. The XX1l cost me 60000Yen (370ukp), and the Aro is about 8 or 9 times that if memory serves.
I remember, Frank, your descriptions of the DVs on the old forum, and it was the slam and weight of the XX1l that you described that I craved most, and which the 10X4 just doesn't really have. Neither does the TK (strangely not available in Japan anyway) nor the 17D2 IIRC from your post.
Anyway, as it's a bank holiday weekend I should have some time to mess around a bit with various combinations over the next few days. I'll leave the 10X4 in for a couple of days (sounded OK last night) then try the XX1L and see what it does to the music.
If it really does sound worse then even with all the mismatch in the world there must be something wrong with it - right? In that case I'll send it back to DV for them to check over.
Many thanks again
JonM
Posted on: 06 October 2000 by Chris Metcalfe
"The XX1l cost me 60000Yen (370ukp), and the Aro is about 8 or 9 times that if memory serves"
There's your problem - your Dynavector was far too cheap! The XX1-L over here retails for £995, last I heard, and is naturally matched with arms such as the Aro. £370 is less than the price of the 10X. Amazing.
Mine works well in the Aro, by the way, and if memory serves the 10X I heard in an Aro at the dem wasn't nearly as sweet or detailed.
I'm curious to know what the average life of the XX1-L is and if a 'service' is possible.
Posted on: 10 October 2000 by Jon Moxon
Just to keep anyone interested up to date.
Had a go at the suspension on Friday night, leveled it a bit and played around with the springs a bit which gave a far more uniform bounce, and bought improvements. Left the 10X in place for most of the weekend and it was really very enjoyable. Certainly has something which the XX1L didn't have when I was listening to it on Thursday night.
Finally got around to putting the XX1L back on last night, choosing s flavoured boards, but only had time for a quick listen. Still, seemed much better: far more refined than the 10X, far more detailed but with a weight to it that wasn't there before. Will be able to get a better idea tonight afetr further listening.
So am wondering whether the K boards aren't faulty or something, and will put them back in over the next few days and see how they sound.
JonM
[This message was edited by Jon Moxon on TUESDAY 10 October 2000 at 08:07.]
Posted on: 17 October 2000 by Jon Moxon
It's really rather good, actually. Certainly more than just listenable, and it leaves the Teac trailing far behind for enjoyment. Haven't got around to putting the K boards back in yet, so can't comment on whether they're knackered or not, but I'm inclined to think the latter.
I'm now ready to believe that I simply panicked, and that the mains was the main culprit on the horrible night. I was listening to some CDs the other night, and everything (including the ben harper) had a horribly harsh and bandwidth-limited sound to it. Records sounded no better. Have since started running an extension lead from the air-conditioner socket as it's no longer in use (it's the only socket on the breaker), and this sounds much better and is more consistent.
Still, I'm now worried that keeping the XX1L on the Ittok might damage the bearings in the long term, so I intend to return the cartridge to DV to check over, sell it on and replace it with the 17D or whatever it was called.
Once again, thanks for all your help.
JonM
Posted on: 17 October 2000 by Jon Moxon
Frank
I see where you're coming from, but I think you misunderstand my situation slightly.
I paid full list price fopr the XX1L - 370ukp. I can have another anytime I choose.
The 17D I can have for 250ukp.
A new Aro costs 3000ukp, and finding a SH one is a game for the extremely patient.
Thus weighing the aro upgrade against an XX1L seems like the illogical bit to me - it isn't comparing like with like. I'm beginning to doubt whether it's worth upgrading the turntable any more anyway, and I might go for the CDS I've seen (though don't tell anyone about that). Seems better to give the lp12 the best chance of running for as long as possible.
JonM
