Serial music - recommendations please

quote:

Originally posted by fred simon:

quote:

Originally posted by jcs_smith:
I also think A Love Supreme is vastly overrated.

May I ask why?

Fred

Because I don't like it. I can't see what all the fuss is about. It think it's tedious and self indulgent.I think he did much better stuff and I think it's crap.
Just my opinion of course. I'm sure most people think I'm wrong

quote:

Originally posted by Tam:

quote:

Originally posted by jcs_smith:
Not a huge fan of Coltrane but Ascension is definitely one of my least favourites. I also think A Love Supreme is vastly overrated. My favourite is Live at the village vanguard again
Don't know that Metheney album

Does that mean there's a second such album? I have the 4 disc set from 1961 which I love (and is my favourite Coltrane album - but the only other two I have are Blue Train and Giant Steps). If so, how does 'again' compare?

regards, Tam

Live at the Village Vanguard was recorded later - 1966. It has Alice Coltrane, Pharaoh Sanders and Rashid Alie - no Eric Dolphy or McCoy Tyner



John Coltrane - Live At The Village Vanguard Again
Catalog #IMPD213
compact disc, lp vinyl
reissue release date 3/11/1997
original releasing label Impulse! Records

Musician-critic Don Heckman, in reviewing a Coltrane performance for Down Beat, distills the nature of that part of Coltrane's power to seize and hold his listeners: "What makes his work so special is the fact that even though Coltrane could probably do anything he wants to as an improviser, he constantly sets goals for himself while he plays that require an outpouring of the most demanding personal energies. The resulting personal esthetic odyssey makes almost every exposure to his work a memorable experience." As in the case in this recording made at New York's Village Vanguard on May 28, 1966.

Live At The Village Vanguard Again! is a jazz album by saxophonist John Coltrane. Recorded in May of 1966, the album shows Coltrane playing in the Free Jazz style that characterized his final recordings.

Out of all the recordings made during the session, only three pieces remain. There are recordings of "Naima" (originally from the album Giant Steps), "My Favorite Things" (from the album of the same name) and a bass solo by Jimmy Garrison entitled, "Introduction to My Favorite Things".

The line up consists of the augmented Quartet of the time, featuring Alice Coltrane on piano, Jimmy Garrison on bass, and Rashied Ali on drums. Additionally, Pharoah Sanders contributes on flute and tenor saxophone, and Emanuel Rahim plays percussion.

This album contains a unique sound. Coltrane and Sanders typically solo during the pieces over a whirlwind of percussion. Alice Coltrane can be heard playing in the background but at times is barely audible. Bass player Jimmy Garrison is practically inaudible throughout the recording, except in his six minute bass solo.

[edit]
Track listing
On the 1967 LP, and the 1997 CD release:

"Naima" - 15:08
"Introduction to My Favorite Things" - 6:07
"My Favorite Things" - 20:21
[edit]
Personnel
John Coltrane - Soprano Saxophone, Tenor Saxophone, Bass Clarinet
Pharoah Sanders - Tenor Saxaphone, Flute
Alice Coltrane - Piano
Jimmy Garrison - Bass
Rashied Ali - Drums
Emanuel Rahim - Percussion
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_at_the_Village_Vanguard_Again%21"

Jazz Supplement 2006
The John Coltrane Guide
From sideman to mesmerizer to evangelical to interstellar space

by Francis Davis
June 6th, 2006 3:23 PM









You can buy your Coltrane in bulk these days, and maybe you should. Not just for completists, boxes like The Prestige Recordings , Atlantic/Rhino's The Heavyweight Champion, and Impulse's The Classic Quartet assist in tracking their subject's path from '50s journeyman to '60s avatar. But facsimiles and expanded editions do the job almost as well, plus they're more affordable and beginner-friendly, and they channel the lure of vinyl originals by miniaturizing the look. You're missing the story with best-ofs.
Mating Call
[1956, Prestige]

This sideman date with star-crossed bebop pianist and composer Tadd Dameron might not be as essential as the ones with Miles and Monk you hardly need me to recommend. But I promise you'll fall for "On a Misty Night," Coltrane's most lyrical and dancing recorded solo to that point.

Cattin' With Coltrane and Quinichette
[1957, Prestige]

Compare and contrast: Already stacking chords and subdividing bebop's basic eighth-note unit, Coltrane could be playing twice as fast as Prez devotee Quinichette, even when the rhythm section supplies the same tempo for both.

Traneing In
[1957, OJC]

Folks who were there say the somber and careening blues title track was the first recorded performance to approach the rigorous explorations Coltrane was by then routinely mesmerizing nightclub audiences with. And his closing flourish on "Slow Dance," a luscious melody by the forgotten Bernstein protégé Alonzo Levister, shows that "Naima"'s melody was on his mind long before Giant Steps.

The Ultimate Blue Train
[1957, Blue Note]

Although '50s wisdom had it the difference between Blue Note and Prestige was a day of paid rehearsal, Blue Note's real edge—and the reason Coltrane, until then seemingly no composer, suddenly blossomed forth with "Moment's Notice" and the looming title track—was in allowing musicians to retain their publishing. In this case, it may be no more than the reunion with Philly Joe Jones, the drummer most in sync with him before Elvin. Having Lee Morgan as a foil doesn't hurt, either. The CD-ROM material congratulates you on your good taste in making this purchase.

Coltrane Time
[1958, Blue Note]

Originally issued as Cecil Taylor's Hard Driving Jazz, it doesn't work as well as it might have, for which blame sidemen unsympathetic to the pianist. But like the 1954 session by Miles and Monk that produced both "Bags' Groove" and a fistfight, this is one of those instances in which tension proves its own reward.

Giant Steps
[1959, Atlantic]

The year of Kind of Blue and Ornette Coleman's Five Spot debut was also the year of Coltrane's tour de force on the changes of . . . they speed by so quickly no one's ever been sure if "Giant Steps" is derived from Tin Pan Alley or a Nicolas Slominsky exercise. Only Charlie Parker's "Ko Ko" presages its dazzle and profundity.

The Avant-Garde
[1960 (1966), Atlantic]

This romp with Don Cherry, Charlie Haden, and Ed Blackwell provides the only clue we have of what Coltrane might have sounded like sitting in with Ornette. Coltrane adds another dimension, going for the harmony that isn't there.

My Favorite Things
[1960, Atlantic]

Coltrane's greatest hit—though pianist McCoy Tyner is the quartet member who takes to modes as if born seesawing between major and minor.

Coltrane Sound
[1960 (1964), Atlantic]

Late-released leftovers. "Equinox," a two-chord vamp stretched to the breaking point, shouldn't have had to wait. Nor should a "Body and Soul" that rivals Coleman Hawkins's. It's the first one I bought, and it proved addictive.

The Complete Africa/ Brass Sessions
[1961 (1995), Impulse]

Figures the only Coltrane album produced by Creed Taylor would be orchestral. But the horns hit like an augmented rhythm section—on "Blues Minor," like a second Elvin Jones.

The Complete 1961 Village Vanguard Recordings
[1961 (1997), Impulse]

This four-CD box, which expands the original LP with material from Impressions and the vaults, isn't the only live Coltrane you'll ever need, but its three epic versions of "Chasin' the Trane" are a good start. Plus generous helpings of Eric Dolphy, Coltrane's musical soulmate and very nearly his match.

Coltrane (Deluxe Edition)
[1962, Impulse]

"The Inch Worm" shows Coltrane wasn't above fishing for another modal, three-quarter-time novelty hit. But the reasons for buying this now are the gorgeous "Soul Eyes" and a shattering "Out of This World."

Live at Birdland
[1963, Impulse]

It's the one with "Alabama," his famous requiem for four little girls killed in a church bombing that summer—something of a ringer for being recorded in the studio. The concert highlight is "I Want to Talk About You," a ballad with an extended cadenza as searing and inventive as any of Coltrane's uptempo adventures.

John Coltrane and Johnny Hartman
[1963, Impulse]

Coltrane performed a mitzvah by reviving the career of a neglected crooner, while casting himself in the unfamiliar (but not altogether unlikely) role of obbligatist. As perfect as Lester Young with Billie Holiday, and—assuming a certain level of taste and sophistication—still a potent first-date aphrodisiac. Or so I'm told.

Crescent
[1964, Impulse]

Simultaneously a ballad album, a darkly ruminative suite, and a subtle exercise in reconfiguring Latin rhythms into a rubato three-against-four (though not billed as any of those things), this has been a favorite of conservatives from Martin Williams to Wynton Marsalis, who regard it as Coltrane's quartet peak. Only what's coming up next stops me from going that far.

A Love Supreme (Deluxe Edition)
[1964–65 (2002), Impulse]

"Among the pious I am a scoffer: among the musical, I am religious" —George Bernard Shaw. Try thinking of the holy visitation in the grips of heroin withdrawal that Coltrane describes in the liner notes as a born-again experience, and this becomes his evangelical testimony. Coltrane's most celebrated work, and rightly so. (Along with dry runs, the in valuable bonus disk preserves Coltrane's only live performance of the work.)

Ascension
[1965, Impulse]

Whenever people talk of Coltrane going off the deep end after A Love Supreme, this squalling tribal gathering organized around raw energy and a handful of chords is inevitably offered as Exhibit A. An artifact in which only the most intrepid will take pleasure, it's nevertheless essential for providing evidence of how Coltrane helped shaped the '60s avant-garde and how its rank and file reshaped him.

Live at the Village Vanguard Again
[1966, Impulse]

Released on the heels of Meditations during my junior year in college. The studio album was the one I relied on for catharsis (or just consolation) at the time, but Again is the one I reach for now whenever I want to re-experience the thrill of hearing Coltrane and Pharoah Sanders storm the heavens arm in arm. And I think I realized it was more substantial right from the start.

Interstellar Space
[1967 (1 974), Impulse]

Piano and bass were becoming residual by the last days of Coltrane's quartet; you braced yourself for the moment he abandoned any pretext of an underlying harmony and went mano a mano with Elvin Jones. These duets with Rashied Ali start there—and the spare compositional guidelines only up the intensity. By turns agitated and calm, loamy and celestial, this magnificent session was held back until '74—as if to ensure Coltrane's influence from beyond the grave.

Thanks for all this. Looks like I'll need to get the credit card out once again.

regards, Tam

Dear jcs_smith,

This will be a very opinionated reply so ideally try to hear my recommendations [e.g. on radio or borrow them from a library] before spending money. Also, I have a very stromg bias towards piano music .... Also I do not have a spell checker ..

Here goes ...

Personally I do not particurly like Schoenberg -- he still sounds [to me] very Late Romantic [i.e. Mahler / Strauss etc]. Berg is also Late Romantic [particularly the violin concerto. [I actually like Mahler and Strauss, by the way].

Webern has a reputation for being difficult and I heard him for the first time only a few years ago [after lots of exposure to Stockhausen. Messiaen etc.] and I did not find him that difficult. He is more or less the hero of modern serialism ...

Stockhausen : I would recommend the klavierstruckte [piano pieces] and Kontakte [for piano, percussion and tape]. I assume you know that you can get his original recordings [originally on Deutche Gramophone] from www.stockhausen.org [They are sold in Tower records in London but are much cheaper direct from Stockhausen or at least they where when I last checked]. If all else fails try the Helicopter Quartet [available from the Arditti Quartet -- it is certainly unique].

Messiaen : His stuff is a bit uneven but try 'Et Expecto Resurrectionem Morturorum' or on piano piece Vingt Regards sur le Infant Jusus.

Xenakis : Try the Arditti string quartet performing his chamber music or look for his percussion work called something like Pleides [the group of Greek islands]. In an interview Xenakix said something like 'Messiaen used all sorts of mathematical ideas but he was not a mathematican .. I was trained as one' [actually an engineer and there are early electronic works by him written in Fortran].

Ligeti : Try the piano etudes [not really serial but modern and great fun].

Boulez : Ritual in Memorium Moderna [i.e. Bruno Moderna]. Also Structures [for piano]. Boulez uses all sorts of mathematical stuff but does not reveal it.

Berio : Try the Sequenzas

James H.

Dear James,

Out of interest, how do you rate Peter Hill's survey of Messiaen's piano music (after hearing some rather fine playing by Aimard on the radio the other day, I am more than tempted, especially given it's budget price).

I don't know to what extent it qualifies as serial music (since I'm still not entirely clear on what serialism is), but I love Messiaen's organ work (I have Jennifer Bate's wonderful survey, also on Regis at budget price).

regards, Tam

Dear Tam,

My favourite version of 'Vingt .. ' is by John Ogdon but it's no longer available. I bought 'Visions d'Amen' by Peter Hill years ago, at full price, and when the complete Peter Hill became available [i.e. cheap] I bought it. Very happy with the set.

[By the way .. some of the bird catalogue can be a bit turgid].

James H.

Suggestion ....

Naxos have Peter Hill doing Schoenberg / Webern / Berg complete piano music if you want to get some idea of what he sounds like [althought he Messiaen was recorded maybe 15 years ago].

I like him as a pianist ..


ends==

Dear James,

Actually, it was bits of the bird catalogue that Aimard was playing in his recital. Having said that, I suspect that any work that long is going to have its longueurs. Still, the other work of his I have that features birdsong quite heavily (Éclairs sur L'Au-delà...) is rather wonderful.

Thanks for the Naxos tip - I shall look into it.

regards, Tam

Dear Tam,

If you are really interested in Messiaen there is a book 'The Messiaen Companion' which is written or edited by Peter Hill. [Can't remember the publisher]. I read it years ago and it made a lot of sense ...

James

I don't know what serialism, 12 tone, or atonal realy means. Cacophanic and austere I think I do. The Arditi SQ seem to play some music like that, it sonds good [sometimes]. Try James Dillon.
SJ

...and maybe Kagel and Kurtag too.
[that should have said, 'sounds good']