Horror dealings with demonic dealers.

Posted by: Name on 13 April 2002

Just wanted to start a post recalling my experiences and providing an opportunity for others to share experiences with dealers who either ripped you off gave you incorrect information or advice.
So spill the beans it can be very theraputic!!

My story some would have heard before but here it goes........
Heard some non naim speakers and thought gosh they sound great so went about ringing around looking for a pair second hand.
Contacted a supposedly "reputable dealer" and he said he knew of a customer/friend that had a pair with the latest drivers and he might be able to convince her to sell and get her a second hand pair of the next model up...(YES it was a her, a rare breed the female audiophile!)
Well we agreed on a price and he said he would give me a call tomorrow and let me know.....he seemed a nice guy but I suppose even dogs have to get really close before they bite your leg off!!

He calls me as promised and says yes she's going to sell, and he's hopefully got a pair of the next model up for her as well. Everything was verbal i.e. via telephone, so here I have a dealer telling me that a pair is ready for me to send to me boxed with the latest drivers in mint condition approx five years old. I actually asked
for the serial numbers to attempt to ring the manufacturer, but a) he gave me incorrect serial numbers, the numbers on the box were not the same as those actually on the speaker b) the manufacturer was some help but said to trust the dealer as he was an experienced dealer.
Well I was unable to see the speakers so I sent the cheque made out to his customer,a letter with my postal address and a request for a receipt. I rung the dealer a couple of days later as the speakers had not arrived the day he promised.
And told him I had rung the manufacturer to confirm their age etc; and the dealer said that they definitely were the latest drivers and the older drivers sounded harsher. So the speakers arrived I opened them up yip oak finish yip mint condition and when I hooked them up.. hold on they sound a bit harsh....SUPRISE old drivers!!
I rang the manufacturer and he said yes that could be possible the speakers were alot older than the dealer had said and they were technically not the latest driver version; go back to the dealer immediately and inform him that you have been talking to the manufacturer and he has not sold you what he verbally told you the product was.
Well the dealer refused to get involved and although he has to this day has never denied saying they were the latest drivers; said he made no financial gain and not his problem.
I tried on many occassions to reason with him.."Like your a reputable dealer you made a mistake....it was on his words I agreed on the sale", I couldn't see the speaker so had to trust him, so how about admitting the mistake and taking them back you lying b##tard(pardon my french). So with no receipt(because he ingored my request for one)and no proof I was stuck with speakers I didn't like and no course of action, his word against mine.
Rang the lawyer he told me when you purchase anything:
1) get a description in writing first from the seller, describing anything verbally said by the seller.
2) When you send your cheque or whatever include a letter saying that this payment is for one pair of blah blah blah with the latest drivers etc.
So when they cash the cheque through their actions they are verifying this, effectively agreeing to the contract.
Tough lesson to be learned, but we all know that with our priced toys we sometimes get caught up in the moment.

Posted on: 14 April 2002 by Rico

So what you're saying is:

find a dealer with integrity and good service, and then stick with him.

This makes things easier, as you can then forget "when system building, too many cooks spoil the broth".

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

Posted on: 14 April 2002 by redeye

Another good reason to stick with Naim then??

So what happened?....
You sold them yet??

Posted on: 14 April 2002 by count.d

I feel sorry for you Name.

The dealer is at total fault here. You seemed to do everything right before hand.

I would put a complaint in writing to the dealer asking him to take these speakers as part ex for something or sort you out with a credit note. He organised the deal through word and mouth.

I would also complain to the manufacurer about the dealer. Keep the letter formal and polite.

If you get no help from this dealer, inform as many people you know who use them and try to get them to make a point to the dealer aswell.

I think the dealer is totally out of order here. To deny any involvement now is basically fraud, but legal fraud.

Posted on: 14 April 2002 by Derek Wright

If the story is true as described ie the dealer introduced you to a third party with the speakers then I think he will be flame proof - if however you can prove that the speakers did actually belong to the dealer and was was selling them via tame friend to avoid tax and warranty liability issues then I think that is another matter.

I think your compaint is against the female that alledgely sold the speakers to you - I should challenge her a little bit

Derek

Posted on: 14 April 2002 by count.d

Derek,

The dealing has been done through the dealer. The description has come from the dealer. The dealer is responsible for the supply, even though payment was made directly to the third party. If the woman gave wrong information to the dealer, that's the dealer's problem for not checking the facts before recommending the product to his client. The dealer was quick enough to get involved in the first place when he was making profit from the woman.

If I bought a faulty Naim product from a dealer, I wouldn't complain to the manufacturer.

Posted on: 14 April 2002 by Eric Barry

I will just say here that the ONLY problem in a used deal (out of 15 or so pieces) was with a "reputable" dealer who a)did not describe condition accurately, b)did not include everything he was supposed to, c)packed very poorly so that the item was damaged both inside and out, d)lied about having shipped the item for about 10 days, e)used a different shipper than agreed, f)took no resposnsibility for his errors, and g)communicated very poorly after things went wrong. I'm currently in another deal which will hopefully work out(supposedly the item is just late but it was weeks after payment was received before it was even shipped), but might turn into a problem, and certainly has been a hassle--and it is with a dealer. And the only problem my father has had with used equipment (only a few pieces) was with a dealer (shipped the wrong thing and wouldn't immediately refund his money).

Is it too much to gather from these experiences that a private party is more likely to be honorable and concerned with your satisfaction than a dealer?

There ARE good dealers, but in general, caveat emptor.

--Eri

Posted on: 14 April 2002 by Name

Hopefully going to finalise the sale of my recently acquired speakers today. An ex dealer is the buyer and I have been a lot more honest than the previous seller. I told him straight out they were the older driver but he is quite happy because they are hard to come by...new or second hand. To pursue it legally I would have to make a disputes claim against the lady I made the cheque out to, and then she would have to bring the dealer in as a third party and I would have to prove that she gave authority to the dealer to represent her in this transaction. This would be difficult, costly and I know that the lady and the dealer are friends.
Hopefully my sale will be successful so I can move on!
And they arenot NAIM speakers....but the replacement pair will be brand new naim SBL's.

Posted on: 14 April 2002 by Chris Murphy

I assume also the dealer was not a Naim dealer?????

Chris.

Posted on: 14 April 2002 by Name

No Chris it wasn't a Naim dealer, but the new sbl's will be through a naim dealer.
The dealer was a north island dealer of some reputation. Hint " music room"???
That's a pretty big hint!!

Posted on: 14 April 2002 by Martin Payne

The only way (with hindsite) I can see that you could have avoided this situation is to find out from the manufacturer what is the starting serial number for the latest drivers, and make it VERY PLAIN on the accompanying letter that you are only offering the deal for speakers where the serial number is after this point.

If the cheque is cashed, then I would expect you to have good legal grounds for goods not being as described. I believe this is the only thing which can be legally complained of in a transaction with a private individual.

cheers, Martin

Posted on: 15 April 2002 by Name

Surely there are more hi fi horror stories out there.
Well I sold the said speakers today and got my money back, actually sold them to an ex dealer who was an authorised dealer for these speakers....what a small world.

Thanks for the advice Martin but unfortunately the manufacturer is well known to be particularly
disorganised and could offer no serial numbers to categorise their products buy.

Naim must be applauded for providing this on their web site.
So I have my money back and see the bank account is back to where it was.
A hint to all those curious....the speakers were...a clue "it's expensive to call New York!"
and if you know the brand you'll know what I mean about a disorganised manufacturer...great product
passionate and informative creators/designers but that's about it!
Non of the naim back up......once bitten twice pissed off.

It's bloody funny actually I dropped the speakers off to the distributor today; a well respected audio icon/personality in New Zealand.
The buyer had arranged for the distributor to ship them to him( old work mates etc) and I ended up arguing with the distributor who said and I'm recalling from memory" these speakers are recommended to be run with naim gear; just look on the internet at the stupid naim web site where those weird idiots type away, there's pages and pages of recommendations of people pairing them with naim".

Cool it looks like we're famous, sometimes people who are passionate are known to be weird but hey weird is cool einstein, wolfgang amadeus, jimi hendrix, beethoven, beatles.... hell even Bob the Builder!!!

Hell the common path is so well trodden it's boring; left of centre is the place to be.

Then he said something to the effect of" Well why don't you spend $10,000 and buy a new pair"...I replied "Their is no way after the dealings I've had with you and your dealership that I'm going to spend anymore money here; I'm definitely going to a naim speaker"..........his reply which makes me laugh "Yip go for it..go for that upfront sound"(he at this point walks away).
I was suprised at how closed minded a supposed audio icon/personality can be but for us upfront sound weirdo's rock on!!!!!!!!!!

Posted on: 15 April 2002 by Hermann

quote:
..find a dealer with integrity and good service, and then stick with him. /Rico

Really worst when trying to get some decent Hifi.

Cheers

Hermann

Posted on: 15 April 2002 by Andrew Randle

NAME,

Well done with the new SBLs, you must be well chuffed!... and relieved (not just of £2k )

Andrew

Andrew Randle
Currently in the "Linn Binn"