HDX with a normal recording.

George,

Interest write-up. Thanks.

I'm wondering if several HDX prototypes are in circulation - this as the reports back from the various venues seem to be quite polarized - i.e. from ~CD5i to >CDS2.


Regards

Richard

George,

Thanks for posting your observations. Much appreciated.

Could you clarify exactly which combo sounded like what?? It sounds like you heard a bare HDX? Then one with a 555ps/Powerline? Is that the case?

If so can you comment on what the 555ps did to the presentation?

Also, how was it without any PSU?


Lastly, I am curious as to the title of the thread.

What is meant by it? Or what wasn't normal about other demos?

Thanks,
Patrick

Also... what does "ATB" mean, i've been meaning to ask.

Dear Paremus,

From the small part of a well loved performance I listened to, then I would say the problem in reality may well be the material being demonstrated!

Some may love the demonstration tracks, and that is really nice, but I had to listen to some music I love in a recording whose quality I knew already from years of experience.

And even having played the music, as well as having heard it from some top musicians ...

I am not much interested in whether it is precisely better than a CDS2/3, but rather whether it replayed music in a captivating, undistracting way. On that score it wins a big prize. So did the CDS2 I ran for six, nearly seven, years.

Certainly people interested must dem this machine rather than read reports, and rip some favourite music to it, rather than just listen to dem tracks.

I found that I could easily listen into the guts of the music and performance. That is what matters in my view.

George

Dear Patrick,

It started as a bare HDX and soon was given the 555PS, and then the Power-line. The 555PS gave it more natural sound-weight on the dem track [Loffgren] and removed any hint of digital edginress [in the dem track], and then the Power-line seemed to bring more poise to the music amking. By the the time the Bach came it was fully mounted, but then without nSub, which for me was a blessing. I once played the bass, and am alergic to any sense of it being too prominent!

It must be focussed, and pitched, but without undue prominence.

A "normal recording" is in my view one made primarily to capture great musical performance, rather than to show how fine is the replay equipment. The mistake is to dem with "dem" tracks. Dem with the "normal" music you love!

On the Bach we reverted [I think] to a bare HDX. It was a bit of a whirl by then. But if I am right it was rather nice just plain!

I intend to make the chance of a real proper audition, if this is at all possible. What I heard made me think this would be totally worth the effort, and mostly I hate Hifi demonstrations!

All The Best from George

George,

Thanks for clarifying.

And yes, I agree that using music you are very familiar with in a variety of ways is paramount.

I am very curious as to the performance of the naked HDX... If I am to venture down that path, a PSU would not be an option for a VERY long time.

thanks,
Patrick

If I won the "lottery HDX" then the power supply could not follow! Perhaps an Olive XPS might come one day.

What this showed me was that I really have to spend a good day, perferably a week at home with the HDX. I found on my "normal" recording that I could see the real potential and quality in the machine. Enough for me to definately say that I would go for it in preference to a top CD player.

I am not so terribly worried about the very last [relative, compared to the CDS3] millegram in quality if the music remains absorbingly conveyed, and I am sure it was if for all too short a time!

I really must sign off now. Holiday starts Thursday, not Wednesday! George

OK, i thought you were kidding about the "lottery". if not how do i get in!!!!!

RE: hdx performance, if it is anything remotely close to a CDX2/XPS, I am on board. Well at least mentally committed. It might be a while though before I am financially committed.

i live in a VERY expensive town, and I do want to stop throwing money away by renting. An HDX/555PS would be about as much as I would need for a reasonable (and on the low end) down-payment.

If I only lived in NYC.... I would sell my car in a heartbeat and buy an HDX the day they are available.

So unless I find i cannot live without it, I might have to wait for s/h HDXs to show up on ebay.

The only other option is to continue searching for a suitable USB DAC. They are just so damn hard to demo.

George -

Agreed. I do need to find the time. Until then, I read the forum members opinions with interest.

Going back to my initial point - whilst the SuperLine has received universal praise - the HDX has received quite bi-polar reviews (both on and off forum). Hence my wondering about whether several proto-types were in circulation.

I suspect that part of the problem is that the HDX challenges the status quo and so effects an emotional response.

We'll see.

Cheers

Richard

Richard,
At the Signals' do yesterday, Naim's Mark Raggett explained that HQ have been making some final pre-production improvements during the month that the Summer Sounds tour has been on the road.

The two I heard yesterday (with SN/Allaes and 552/500/DBLs) I would say were around CDX2 level from the ripped files. Mark says it won't be quite as good playing straight off a CD. This is because of the painstakingly detailed ripping process, which makes reference to a central database to correct any data errors or faults on the CD, and to a higher specification than a CD.

Onboard it holds roughly 650 CDs-worth of data, but with flexible offboard device, networking, and external storage option capabilities.

I'm a technical dunce. But even I came away with some understanding of how it works, and - most importantly - how it sounds.

So I'll get up and running nice and quickly when I win the HDX Prize Draw!!! And 'hard luck' the rest of you

James

James

Thanks for the info. So the tweaks probably go someway to explaining the diversity of reports.

Were your observations re HDX / CDX2 based on HDX with / or without / external power supply for HDX?

Cheers

Richard

quote:

. This is because of the painstakingly detailed ripping process, which makes reference to a central database to correct any data errors or faults on the CD, and to a higher specification than a CD.

Hi James,

A central database of what? I can see how CDs perfectly ripped will potentially sound better than the discs (given the same DAC and output stages).

But I'm struggling with the database idea - that data can only come from the discs themselves. Making an error free rip is not unique, a computer can do that.

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by paremus:

Were your observations re HDX / CDX2 based on HDX with / or without / external power supply for HDX?

And would that be compared to a CDX2 with or without the XPS power supply?

quote:

Originally posted by JWM:

...and to a higher specification than a CD.

James

What does this possibly refer to?

quote:

The only other option is to continue searching for a suitable USB DAC. They are just so damn hard to demo.

Nah - there is bound to be a lower cost alternative coming out. I heard the HDX a couple of weeks back - thought it was fantastic noth in user interface and sound quality and have been thinking long and hard about whether i want to payy 4.5k for this unit...

I'm not going to and am going to wait for the next version - If Naim have got it right and the HDX sounds as good playing from a USB stick and an external drive then i'm happy to wait for Naim to 'do a Linn' and do away with the internal drives and just rely on NAS or external USB storage. Keep the internal ripping engine though.

Just think -

HD5x - Slimline 5 series case, internal CD ripper, option to add a Naim NAS in another slimline case, Power supply upgradeable.

HD5i - Half width case - no internal drives or Ripping. No upgrade.

James

quote:

Originally posted by james n:
Just think -

HD5x - Slimline 5 series case, internal CD ripper, option to add a Naim NAS in another slimline case, Power supply upgradeable.

HD5i - Half width case - no internal drives or Ripping. No upgrade.

James

If I am going to invent hypothetical Naim products it would have to be the "DACline"

A 24/96 USB/I2S DAC.
The price of a Superline,
Upgradeable with any PSU,
Option operate in NOS mode.

So many people out there, Naim users included, do not need anything but the DAC in ANY streamer/HD player.

-patrick

One day on, and the experience of playing some favourite music in a well-loved performance, in a fairly respectable modern recording, has entirely whetted my appetite for a proper long dem.

On the variability of reports of the HDX, I think that had I not had the chance of playing something of my own - a known quantity, of known quality - then I might have actually been quite disappointed myself. But that would be because the recording that was used was terribly close miked and the singer sounded uncomfortably right on top of the microphone. I would suspect that the very analytical quality of the machine could not help this over-blown, over-bright style of recording one bit. That might well be putting off people who given something realistically recorded might then see just how fine this new HDX really is.

The trouble for me and some others may well be that we simply do not know from life's experience what the recording was supposed to sound like, and this can be a permanent problem in selecting music to demonstrate a piece of equipment.

And if there really is variability between the different pre-production HDXs doing the rounds [which I doubt is great if it exists at all] then I suppose there is a reasonable expectation that the actual production version will take the best voicing not the least good.

It was quite frustrating, as while I was attending the dem, I could have been listening to the two new Testament live issues, which had arrived in the morning post, of Otto Klemperer conducting Beethoven, and I set about them last night, terribly late! I was tired out today! But the one disc has rolled over the player, and is even finer than I could have hoped, and the other will follow later!

ATB from George

George,

I do agree with your comment that using a familiar recording is paramount.

But i think i disagree with the assertion that it must be a "good" recording.

Dictated by the source first philosophy, a great recording will make anything sound better. Maybe even hide its shortcomings. Considering that 90% of ALL new music is not recorded well, and most of our collections follow suit, I would be more inclined to hear how it handles a bad recording.

Of course a great recording/mastering should sound fabulous on a $10,000 player. Well it better.

It seems, in your estimation, if the recording is less than ideal, the HDX will simply expose those flaws to a greater degree than a CDP.

The last thing I need a more revealing nature to my kit. It is transparent enough as it stands.

thanks,
Patrick

Dear Patrick,

I took a modern recording, from about 1982, so early digital. It is a fairly difficult recording to bring out nicely. It can be over-bright, but the HDX revealed it without bringing out its slight thin-ness. I agree that a test recording must be of known quality rather than of the first quality.

I did not want to take a recording that was so obviously poor that everyone would be shocked how poor the result was, but rather one that in the right circumstances can sound very fine, but which is easy to get wrong in playback. For example this particular recording showed the short-comings of my first Naim set: CD3 and Nait3, and was one of the few precious thing that the set really did not play comfortably well.

So the fact that the HDX brought out the music and actually was immensely delving and resolving, without running to harshness, was completely re-assuring. Of course, if, and hopefully when I get a proprer long dem, I shall take both better and worse recordings! All of favourite music!

I don't think Jason was upset by the result, though he could hardly have realised the potential difficulty of replaying this particular recording judging by the result! We even got the nSub muted, such was the natural result. Without the sub result was even nicer.

Yes, only a few minutes told me the potential of this machine. Potential of course to be confirmed at greater length, I hope, but only I knew quite how sharp edged that Bach recording can sound on less than top kit.

ATB from George

George, thanks for your input. I've been waiting for an unbiased opinion on the HDX and just evaluating it for "what it does." Of course a longer demo is needed. I'm looking forward to August when my dealer will have one and will be able to listen to not only ripped CDs, but also the 24/96 A/D vinyl recordings that have been done using the Linn/Superline configuration. Should be very revealing about what the HDX can do.

Hi George,

Have you been able to compare it with any other streaming solutions?

Steve

Steve,

I don't go into shops very much! Except for grocery!!

Seriously, this was only the second time I have heard anything in the line, and really I did not get a good enough listen the other time so commenting would be useless.

On one level I would happily settle for computer HD based idea, if the quality could be fine enough [not less than true high quality], but though this is more expensive I have heard nothing that came close from a PC based idea.

I could easily house all my CDs as I have been pruning. I am finding that the core of my collection is quite constant, but there has been quite some adjustment in some respects. Also I now have superb VHF radio, I am spending loads of the music time listening to Radio Three's output! So the HDX would be splendid for me a not only a very nice, high quality solution, but a rather compact one, which I do value!

I am told that there are choices emerging, but it is the time to investigate! After this the benchmark of quality and expectations has been raised rather high for any competition, for me.

Perhaps I am not in so much of a hurry either!

George

A comparison of the Linn DS players against the HDX would be an interesting one.

James

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
Perhaps I am not in so much of a hurry either!

George,

I think this is very sensible.

Digital music is a fast moving area - I liked the HDX enough on the day to consider trying it at home; but, as I said to Jason at the dem, £4.5 is a lot of money.

The HDX MUST be at least as good as any disc spinner I can buy for the same money, or laptop/DAC come to that, and a definite step up on what I currently have.

M

Hmmm - Linn have a Majik DS unit out as well. IIRC about £1500....

Come on Naim - get that HD5i out ...

James

quote:

Originally posted by GFFJ:
but Jason also saw the value in removing the nSub, which I found was a valuable change on the splendid SL2s, which only need help in a poor acoustic.

Why do they do that? I was feeling a bit overwhelmed by the bass when I heard the Super-line, and couldn't quite work out why. I was about to blame the fully Linned LP12 which I have always found a little bass heavy, when I spotted the N-Sub lurking in a corner!