What is it about the LP12?

1. Damned good.
2. Damned finicky.
3. Damned demanding of expensive add-ons.
4. Damned expensive.
5. Damned good.
6. Damned good marketing.
7. Damned outdated.
8. Damned good cult following.
9. Damned good ... but not that good.
10.Damned expensive .. ridiculously expensive.

Max,

I'm not sure how it is in Chicago, but here in Evanston, it's hard to find something that betters the LP12 in its price range. Once you cross Howard, you know....8>

I'm happy with my LP12, which is worth about $1500-2000 on the open market - what would be better than what I have at that price?

As usual, we're opining here.

Are there other turntables in the LP12 price range that are very satisfying to some people? Sure, yes, absolutely!

Is there anything in its price range that I think is better overall? Nope.

Are there turntables that I have not heard that are better than the LP12? I don't know, but it's very possible.

Regards.

Phil

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Originally posted by Kevin-W:
Does anyone have any thoughts as to why a turntable first produced 31 years ago still has the power to move people in the way that it does, or, conversely, piss them off?

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Kevin, I believe one of the answers is that this design has developed and matured for 31 years. Some call it outdated and old but a new LP12 is completely different to an old one. It's not even the same tt I would say, just the name and design remains. Maybe some people can't accept that such an old design can be up there with the very best, "newer must be better syndrome". I have not heard any other tt in my sistem but I have heard different ones at various dealers. I believe that some make better hifi but the Linn makes music in a very pleasant way. A bit like naim electronics maybe. I'm pretty sure many other tt's can better the LP12 in some ways like soundstaging etc. But to me it just sounds very coherent and engaging, making me forget about the "sound" and connect to what is being played. Maybe an answer to your question is that people who listen more to the sound prefer other designs and people who doesn't care to much about the sound but want to get involved in the music like the LP12.

Bjorne

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Originally posted by mad max:
linn lp12

I really think people have a hard time facing the reality that other TT's have , not only caught up with the linn, but in fact have surpassed it by quite a big margin. Yes, it still is a great TT, but others have surpassed it sonically than many care to admit.

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Hi Max. I'm curious what turntables you think better the Linn by quite a margin, please tell. Regarding your comment that they have caught up with Linn: remember that the LP12 evolves regularly, a current LP12 is different to a 10 years old one. Linn constantly works to improve it.

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I really think people have a hard time facing the reality that other TT's have , not only caught up with the linn, but in fact have surpassed it by quite a big margin. Yes, it still is a great TT, but others have surpassed it sonically than many care to admit.

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Dear mad

I dont have a problem with my 20 year old LP12. It's all I can afford therfore I dont hanker after anything else. I like the way it sounds and derive a great deal of satisfaction from it.
I dont have any problem with my 13 year old Toyota either. Its big enough to carry my tools so as I can earn a living and manages to tow our 30 year old horse trailer.
My clunky old laptop does me just fine also, its a little slow at times but does the job.
If you have a problem with people being satisfied with there lot in life then so be it. My LP12 sounded good yesterday, sounded good today and will quite possibly sound just dandy tommorow.
Just because the goalposts keep changing you dont have to run like sheep to buy the latest "big thing".
Im of to play a record now. Its an old record by an old band, is that OK with you?

Yours contentedly, Paul

John Mak - I take it from your post that you don't own an Lp12?

In answer to the topic question, the answer's simple - plays music well.

Outdated? Quality never goes out of style.

Rico - SM/Mullet Audio

The LP12 is still regarded as the best for playing music.

There are more Hi-Fi decks, but these do not satisfy in the long run.

I have asked the question before "Where can you go from an LP12", and the answers are always "I have an XXXX, you should consider that", but the XXXX is different in every case. (Mitchell, Voyd, SME, WT, Avid, VPI etc.)

There never seems to be more than one person recommending each alternative.

I wish there was a concensus worth investigating, until then, we are stuck on getting the latest tonearm cable / cartridge to realise our aspirations.

DS

OTD (LP12, naturally) - Keiron Phelan & David Sheppard

btw, i am interested (don't tell the wife) in getting a LP12..anyone know what i can expect to pay in USD??

I have a 72/hicap/250 setup and suspect the LP12 would really fit well based on what i've read..though i don't know if mc is preferrable to mm..

any constructive thoughts are appreciated..

many thanks
mark

Mark,

As I type,I am listening to LP12 72/H-Cap/250, so I can defintely recommend that.

MC is generally better then MM, smoother, more detailed, more flow, get one ( and the appropriate card for the 72 ) and you will have many hours of listening pleasure. Probably.
Look on e-bay for your area, for prices, or serach for a local dealer who deals in second hand gear.

Ds

OTD - Keiron Phelan & David Sheppard

[QUOTE]Originally posted by David Slater:
Mark,

As I type,I am listening to LP12 72/H-Cap/250, so I can defintely recommend that.

MC is generally better then MM, smoother, more detailed, more flow, get one ( and the appropriate card for the 72 ) and you will have many hours of listening pleasure. Probably.
Look on e-bay for your area, for prices, or serach for a local dealer who deals in second hand gear.

Ds

Thanks David,
I have to admit i get a little 'gun shy' when i see all the different variations of the LP12 referred to on audiogon..would these variations be the different types of tone arms available??
i think at first i will want the basic set up to get started..LP12's seem to be fetching approx. $2k USD on Audiogon...seem reasonable??

if this gets too expensive i will probably defer until i get the xps for the cdx...
mark.

Err, this might bore some but...

Variations on LP12 are many, as it has been upgtaded over the years:

Base unit - basic / Cirkus upgrade / Trampolinn baseboard / No baseboard / different wood finishes

Motor power Basik - Valhalla - Lingo or Armageddon or others

Arm : Basik / Akito / Ittok / Aro / Ekos and many others

Cartridge : Too many to list, but Linn suit well, Dynavector, Lyra, VdH etc.

Try a google search, there are lots of online resoucres about the deck.

It is difficult to judge whether a price is fair until details of the age, condition, motor power & arm are factored in.

The great thing is though they play beautiful music, are still maintained, upgradeable, and always sellable

Find a local dealer to help

DS

OTD - Keiron Phelan & David Sheppard

I have a 20 yr old LP12 (valhalla/Basik LVX) in for a service right now (with a s/h Itok being fitted as well). The dealer ran through the options for upgrading it...

Cirkus
Lingo2
Ekos
New (strengthened) plinth
Arkiva (!)

One good thing about this deck is that even old ones like mine can be brought up to the latest spec (though how much of the old one would be left I don't know).

I know we shouldn't get emotionally attached to 'things' but I would miss mine a lot. The hi-fi doesn't look right without it there, even Mrs S thinks so and she never plays records!

It's been a while since I have heard other quality turntables. Having said that, when I upgraded my basic LP12, perhaps seven or so years ago, I tried out amongst others the Pink Triangle PT Too, Roksan Xerxes, Michell Gyrodeck. They were all very good turntables - perhaps more hi-fi than the LP12. In the end I settled on upgrading the LP12 simply because it allowed me greater enjoyment of the music.

Rgds

Mike

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Originally posted by mad max:
I believe the new rega P9 surpasses the linn in every area, and is quite a bit less expensive than a fully equiped linn, also the vpi tnt mk v at around $6000 US dollars, REALLY sounds great... ...The linn is a great TT, just not the leader it once was.

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At the risk of being both banned and ridiculed as being deaf - my very own Planar 3 weed all over a fully decked out Linn Sondek with Arkiv etc etc when I bought the Rega second hand in 1998. OK - so the Linn had better speed stability, but in the areas that counted to me the Rega walked it - at a tenth of the price. Plus it handled knackered vinyl better. NOTE this is just my opinion, but when he said "look at how much the Rega does for the money" I didn't have the heart to tell him I thought it made the Linn sound a tenth of the Rega...

I *have* however heard ONE LP12 I could use - the one in Audio-T in Reading. It uses an Aro and manages to get round that "cheap Alba portable style bass boost" the standard Linn does - I HATE that mushy bloomy bass with a passion...

And no, I don't like CD much as a source before someone jumps on me for the Linn->bass thing...

My mate has a Michell Orbe/SME V/vdh Frog - he came from a Linn Basik/Akito/Grado - the Linn he had was straight up sluggish, bloated, and painful to listen to... - oh, and I hate the 45 rpm adaptor even more - my mate was having kittens when I figured out we had to MANHANDLE the thing with brute force onto the motor pulley - those nasty grindy gratey noises as you push it on are not funny...

Like I say though, I have heard a Linn I like, so I know they're out there... Telephone-book quantities of decks sold - those punters can't ALL be wrong after all!

When the music's over turn out the lights

..oh yeah, and cueing up on the Linn is a nightmare - and woah betide you if you dare to walk within a 5 mile radius of one unless you have a wall shelf... Wooooowaaaaandfltr and jumpetyjumpjump...

When the music's over turn out the lights

Dom, when are you going to get over here and have a listen? Truly I have heard four LP12s and none of them had an ounce of bass bloom.

I liked my Rega planner2 and had it for a number of years, but the LP12 killed it in everything.

Bouncing I concede can be a pain!

Gary - one day I'll definitely have to come over - Salisbury isn't so far from me once I finally get to Exeter full time (mid August) - I don't have ANY free weekends until after then though - for once I'm fully booked up for ages

I'm well up for that though - like I say - I KNOW there's Linns out there that can do it for me (plus I'd like to hear your CDI to see what it's like ).

Dom

When the music's over turn out the lights

Dom, I live in watford!

I hail from salisbury, but moved here around three and a half years ago.

So a bosh up the M4 and your here, about 40 miles away.

Exeter to salisbury however is a bit of a slog, the 303 can be a bitch

Aha - that'll be a day trip on the train then I'll definitely get back to you on this as I reckon it'd be pretty cool - I'm curious (read nosey) to see what you have in your record collection too!

[This message was edited by domfjbrown on THURSDAY 10 July 2003 at 10:58.]

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At the risk of being both banned and ridiculed as being deaf - my very own Planar 3 weed all over a fully decked out Linn Sondek with Arkiv etc etc when I bought the Rega second hand in 1998.

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I know everybody is supposed to be allowed to have an opinion and be taken sort of seriously.

But this is a load of bollocks. The LP12 would have to be broken beyond simple function for this to be any sort of 'truth'.

The end of the world is about as nigh as a Linn having 'cheap Alba portable style bass boost'. And that from someone with a system that has no bass...

Paul

Bear in mind also that half the time my ears don't pop - which means VERY curtailed bass. Now if the Linns I've heard can still exhibit boom through that there must be something rotten in Denmark...

Of course, it could be (and probably IS) the case that the 4 decks I heard and didn't like (my mate Henry's, a couple of Linn dems at shows (so no real proof of anything there!) and the vendor who sold me the Planar 3) that they weren't set up right/gone off/badly matched to electronics/whatever - but I know what I heard and I didn't rate it at all.

That Naim'd one in Audio-T though is a different matter entirely - it was excellent.

When the music's over turn out the lights

To lend some support to domfjbrown:

I have no idea what it is about the LP12. I would like to know. I really would. If anyone cares to demonstrate a working LP12 to me (I have only ever heard a working LP12 at a dealer) I shall accept the invitation gratefully (particularly if it is with Naim kit and provided it's not too far away).

I owned an LP12/Lingo2/Ekos/Akiva/Linto for a short time and it was terrible. Not only did it sound awful, it was all very poorly made. Many parts were faulty and needed to be replaced (lid, base, Ekos, Ekos cable). Other parts which were not replaced may also have been faulty - noisy motor, Linto. An A/B test with a different phono stage indicated that the Linto was responsible for a lot of the problems with the actual sound.

Fortunately I was able to return the kit to the dealer for a full refund.

You can, if you wish, consider this to be polemic on my part, if it is, it is in the sense of challenging an accepted view, no aggression is implied. Rather than polemic, this post should be viewed as a simple statement of my experience with this product and to express an interest in understanding why this product is so loved.

I accept that my dreadful experience with the LP12 puts me in a minority (with domfjbrown perhaps) and that the vast majority of LP12 owners have had only good experiences. I would have liked to have been able to join this happy band. On the other hand, I am pleased with the Orbe/SMEV/Rohmann combination which I bought instead.

Regards,

Paul.

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Originally posted by domfjbrown:
...and woah betide you if you dare to walk within a 5 mile radius of one unless you have a wall shelf... Wooooowaaaaandfltr and jumpetyjumpjump...

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That may be so with an ARO and an unsteady floor but with my pitch floor and Ekos it's impossible to disturb the LP12 (unless you hit it or its support table).

--J

I think one of the major advantages Linn have over other manufacturers is 30 years experience of producing turntables and the engineering facilities to produce them to very tight tolerances

See this thread.

- Jun