am I braking the law?

quote:

Am I braking the law if I subsequently write to that person with marketing material or would I be braking the law?

I think you could well be in breach of data protection legislation. I certainly would hope that was the case anyway!

bornwina

The simple answer is yes you would be contravening the Data protection act.

Basically the dealer sold the car to a customer who allowed his details to be recorded so that either the dealer or the manufacturer could contact him at a later date to offer promotions, safty recalls etc.

The car owner did not give his permission for his details to be released to a third party (you) for commercial reasons.

If you are a dealer, you can only contact someone who bought their car from you. If you contact the driver of a car who just drove past, you are accessing information out of your remit and that is an offence.

You would only "get done" of course if someone complained, so you takes your chance.

Regards

Mick

PS I know all this because the Post Office has 26.7 million addresses and the sale of that information is rigorously controlled.

quote:

Originally posted by Mick Parry:
bornwina


PS I know all this because the Post Office has 26.7 million addresses and the sale of that information is rigorously controlled.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, So I will have to be very respectfull towards you in the future then, and be more circumspect in what I say, "O Wise, gifted and all Seeing Mick", or armed with that knowledge, as to where I live, you'll be sending the Boys round to pay me a visit
oldie.

"I think you could well be in breach of data protection legislation. I certainly would hope that was the case anyway!"

Steve, I understand your sentiments but you might, in fact, be absolutely delighted to be offered a viable option for aftersales service to your car having been used to the poor service offered by the current incumbent.

Mick, I am not sure I am a third party as I also am a dealer authorised by the manufacturer to offer the same safety recall service - and if the incumbent dealer went bust their database would be given to me to ensure recalls were carried out. My ability to access the name and address of the vehicle owner is only one stage of advancement on my patrolling the streets, making a note of the address at which a car of a certain marque is parked and writing 'Dear Car Owner' rather than 'Dear Mr Smith' - I'm sure you're right by the letter of the law though and I hazzard a guess a complaint would be made sooner or later - most likely by the current dealer whose trade I was encroaching.

Bornwina, there is nothing worse than an ambulance chaser.

quote:

Originally posted by bornwina:
Steve, I understand your sentiments but you might, in fact, be absolutely delighted to be offered a viable option for aftersales service to your car having been used to the poor service offered by the current incumbent.

Well you'd be wrong and if you contacted me like that I'd definitely report you to the UK importer for whatever brand of car you were selling and quite possibly to the data protection people as well.

The fact that you might get a few additional sales out of it doesn't appear to me to be enough to justify what I'd regard as spamming.

quote:

Originally posted by bornwina:

Steve, I understand your sentiments but you might, in fact, be absolutely delighted to be offered a viable option for aftersales service to your car having been used to the poor service offered by the current incumbent.

And if I was looking for double glazing or a new conservatory or a new fitted kitchen I might be delighted if my details were given to one of these companies. But I'm not and would be most annoyed if they were being treated in the cavalier manner you describe here.

It sounds as though the whole process needs looked at here. As far as I remember from my time as a data protection officer a company not only has to inform the Data Protection Office which data are going to be retained, but the purpose for which they're going to be used. If that includes soliciting for new business it must be stated clearly on the registration (apologies if things have changed since I was involved in this area). The customer should be made fully aware of this when he/she signs the form.

As somebody who recently changed their phone number and went x directory I appreciate that missuse of personal details is a highly emotive subject however I do not consider my proposition to be "cavalier".

Last year EU competition laws were specifically revised regards the motor industry to allow greater competition and easier entry in order to give the car owner greater choice in where they get their car serviced and repaired.

Personally, if I had purchased a car in the last couple of years and received a letter from an authorised repairer (as opposed to a sales call when I was eating my dinner) on manufacturers letter headed paper simply informing me that another dealer had opened in my area I would not consider that an infringement of my personal data. Rather I would see that as a worthwhile and positive benefit in owning that type of car as I was being informed that I had a practical choice. Indeed the manufacturer itself writes to such owners on the opening of a new dealer but are unnable to name them as they are unnable to be seen to be favouring one dealer over another so the data I refer to is, and will, be used for exactly the purpose I describe albeit in a fairly vague way.

If it is accepted that having a choice is a good thing and that the complexity, safety crtical nature of and high cost of a new car would tend to make most people interested in its maintenance, and that owners are used to receiving various mailings regards their car and its maintenance then why not write to them using data that is in my domain to provide pertinent information to them? Its hardly spam is it?

quote:

Originally posted by bornwina:
Its hardly spam is it?

It's definitely spam in my opinion and if it's not directly sanctioned by the importer owning the list then it would also seen an incidence of sharp practice. Have you asked the list owner whether they're ok with what you're proposing to do?

I have to agree with the others here. It is a breach of the Data Protection Act you are not the owner of the dta aand you wil not be using it for the purposes registered by the data owner (i.e. marketing for a rival dealership!)

For instance Naim hold contact details when I registered here. I am on their list for music issues which I receive and occaisonally buy the discs so they have my home address as well.

I would be VERY pissed off if I started receiving stuff from Naim dealers I have not dealt with touting for business.

To use your example, a new Naim dealership started in my locality last year. They did not contact me though I have been to them, they could easily have used data (if Naim had provided it to them, which they haven't) to spam all Naim owners in the region but they didn't.

Steve

"It's definitely spam in my opinion and if it's not directly sanctioned by the importer owning the list then it would also seen an incidence of sharp practice."

OK, I'll walk the streets, making a note of registration numbers, models and addresses and write "Dear Car Owner" - what's the difference?is that sharp practice?

"Have you asked the list owner whether they're ok with what you're proposing to do?"

Who owns the list? Its coallated when a car is sold for the use of the manufacturer and its agents (of which I am one) to administer safety recalls and after sales information pertinent to the owner.

Seagull

"I would be VERY pissed off if I started receiving stuff from Naim dealers I have not dealt with touting for business."

I take your point and agree with your principal but would and should you object to receiving data (as opposed, say, to a special offers sheet about hi fi) about a new option for the servicing and safety arrangements for your car - it's not as if these areas are matters of choice - you've got to (assuming you are responsible) have them done and you'd simply be made aware that a new facility exists for their provision.

quote:

Originally posted by bornwina:
OK, I'll walk the streets, making a note of registration numbers, models and addresses and write "Dear Car Owner" - what's the difference?is that sharp practice?

No, just scum marketing of the lowest order. I'm not sure whether the mail preference service is applicable to low-rent direct mail schemes such as that but you'd be best to check as you could have issues there.

If you came up my street noting car registrations and addresses you'd probably find yourself on the end of a visit from the local police as we have security cameras which are on the lookout for prowlers and other parasites...

Are you a Mason ? If yes, then no you're not:


Fritz Von Remember the well oiled scam in rural UK pub car parks where the over the top )person of influence) drives his or her Jag or 'Wover' out of the place and immedialtely rolls into a clapped out old banger driven by a streriorypical YOB (in their eyes). They start to rant and rave (Do you know who I am ? etc), and said YOb(ette) answered "You've been drinkin ain't yah ?" Cash changes hasnds, no more said, the best bit being the resulting hoo haah over the learned folks privacy, and nothing to do with the LAW and the potential lives that were/are saved, many lost souls of course we all know of too well, but thatz's allright then innit.

quote:

Originally posted by bornwina:
Who owns the list? Its coallated when a car is sold for the use of the manufacturer and its agents (of which I am one) to administer safety recalls and after sales information pertinent to the owner.

The list will most likely be "owned" by the uk importer who'll have restrictions in place on its use and probably liable to fines for its misuse.

Steve

I had until now thought the comments you have made well constructed - but by implication refering to me as scum and a parasite does you no favours. In fact I am an honest businessman, employing and training local people trying to provide a decent service to my customers - as a byproduct of that the success of my business gives me a decent income.

Just out of interest, what business or industry are you in and what is your sales process? furthermore, what cost effective targeted marketing campaign that is neither scummy or parasitic could you recommend to me?

quote:

Originally posted by bornwina:
Just out of interest, what business or industry are you in and what is your sales process?

I'm a director of an IT consultancy and software developer. We get most of our sales through referals (customers and partners), marketing at trade events, responding to published invitations to tender and from targeted B2B marketing campaigns. For those campaigns we've built our own lists through market research which we've paid to have done.

quote:

furthermore, what cost effective targeted marketing campaign that is neither scummy or parasitic could you recommend to me?

Anything involving direct mailing to peoples homes (whether using your own list or one that's been "borrowed") is out, as is prowling the streets noting addresses and registrations. I know a lot of people in the trade and they've found radio advertising of their services effective, along with sponsorship of local events (and often teams) and advertisments placed in the local press.

Steve

My reply is somewhat predictable, but what the hell;

"from targeted B2B marketing campaigns. For those campaigns we've built our own lists through market research which we've paid to have done."

In which case I hazzard a guess that you or your agents have hassled people in the past who had absolutely no time, interest or inclination towards your products or market research objectives - no doubt they disregarded your approaches in the same way as, say, a car owner could bin a letter with no thought.

"Anything involving direct mailing to peoples homes (whether using your own list or one that's been "borrowed") is out,"

With respect, your experience in marketing to the general public (or sector of) is a tad naive to dismiss direct marketing per se, not that I'm suggesting mass mailings with the tree cutting issues that implies. Other than the suggestions you make below (which won't work for me) I scratch my head thinking of ways to comunicate a simple message (e.g. we are open, come and get us) without some written or verbal media. And as my clientelle are not generally business's in this instance, and that they are captive and interested in as much as we're communicating about probably the second biggest purchase of their lives and I'm one of only two outfits in the area that can keep it safe, I'd be surprised if I received many complaints, although I'll have a word with my solicitor before doing so as our exchange this PM has illustrated that someone (like you) will definately make it their lifes work to have me prosecuted if it's illegal.

"I know a lot of people in the trade and they've found radio advertising of their services effective, along with sponsorship of local events (and often teams) and advertisments placed in the local press."

I can only assume you only know main agents involved in selling cars in volume as these methods (barring the sponsorship - which is never going to switch volume business on) are excessively expensive for the return. A well healed mate of mine opened a german authorised repairer a few months ago and did #20k with local radio but received precious few ticks on that source of enquiry box - unlike the targetted leaflet drops into car parks he did.

"as is prowling the streets noting addresses and registrations"

And there I was thinking that showed a bit of get up and go!

In my world, to "brake" (when applied in a motoring context) would mean applying the brakes in order to stop, or slow down, forward motion.

So the concept of "braking the law" is an interesting one.

If one were to commit a breach of the various Road Traffic Acts, one might be accused of "breaking" the law.

Please try a bit harder with the spelling, chaps.

G

Bornwina,
You and others like you ,that take advantage of information given by people with best intent, is the very reason I would never either trust a commodity sales person or give them any information apart from yes [I'll buy the good's] or no [I'm not intersted].This abuse of peoples privacy for your own advantage,how ever you try to dress it up is the very reason why we have to have the extremly inconveniant ex directory phone numbers, and the imposition of having to have Junk mail stopped before delivery. The fact that you would even have the audacity of even consider carrying these actions out makes me very angry.If it was my information you were misusing I also would, like others here immediatly report you.
A normally very tolerant, oldie.

I totally agree Oldie me old Brightonian, I extend this MEGA misstrust to any financial dealings on the internet, and the general use of Credit Cards as well, if people are involved it just is not safe, or/and logical, and mugs/innocents do need protection.

Fritz Von Would I lie to you ! Now would I ?

borwina,
Can you please justify the use of the data, which is 'personal' date under the Data Protection Act, and confirm your use of it whas in fact sanctioned by the individuals who gave this information in the 1st place?

Have a read of this:
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1998/80029--a.htm#end

It may help you. If you are registered (as I think your company should be), misuse of the information could be an offence. If you are not registered, and you hold personal data, then why are you not registered?

Please also have a look at this:
http://www.crimereduction.gov.uk/infosharing22-2.htm#principles

which mentioned misue of information initially lawfully obtained etc. You would do wise to be careful re what you do with your number plates!

andy c!

"Can you please justify the use of the data, which is 'personal' date under the Data Protection Act, and confirm your use of it whas in fact sanctioned by the individuals who gave this information in the 1st place?"

My intention is to inform owners of vehicles they have a practical alternative for the provision of safety critical services to their motor vehicle as sanctioned by the manufacturer of the vehicle. I believe owners will find this information of use and value. Justification? - I don't know, depends on you viewpoint.

Thanks for the links - that's me over and out.

I'd expect your government to demand that the owner of the database specifies the purpose of the database. After the purpose has been approved, the owner will be breaking the law it they would use this same database for any (!) other purpose.

Cheers,

Edo

Edo,
The contents of the links above explains just that.

The data user would need to justify the adata was obtained for that use, or that the person who supplied the data consented to such use 'at the time of supply of the data'. If that isn't confirmed, then offences will be committed if the data is used for another purpose...

andy c!

quote:

My intention is to inform owners of vehicles they have a practical alternative for the provision of safety critical services to their motor vehicle as sanctioned by the manufacturer of the vehicle. I believe owners will find this information of use and value. Justification? - I don't know, depends on you viewpoint.

In other words you are cold selling. This is entirely what the Data protection act is there to protect.

Please go to jail, do ot pass go and do not collect £200.