SBL active to NBL passive
Posted by: blythe on 19 May 2003
I know some have already discussed the subject but I can only find details of going from active 135 SBL's to passive NBL's and talk of a 500 etc....
I currently have 2 x 250's into my SBL's and am interested to hear what anyone may have experienced when they switched from simliar active SBL's to NBL's powered by a single 250?
Anyone done it?
Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......
I currently have 2 x 250's into my SBL's and am interested to hear what anyone may have experienced when they switched from simliar active SBL's to NBL's powered by a single 250?
Anyone done it?
Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......
Posted on: 19 May 2003 by Minky
Blythe,
NBL's are dangerous beasties. First they say "buy me - I sound better than your old speakers, and I am an investment in the future", then you get them home and they go all boring and introverted and you start to miss your active SBL's because they were always game for a laugh. "Hungry" your poor NBL's say, so you contact the manager of your Swiss bank and get them some exotic meat, which gets them out of bed and puts some colour into their cheeks. Then one stormy night you wake up and there is an NBL standing beside your bed wispering "more" into your ear ..
In other words, your first mission will be to get the NBL's to "bite" like your active SBL's did and your second will be to resist the temptation to
go even further, because NBL's are very appreciative of anything you do for them.
NBL's are dangerous beasties. First they say "buy me - I sound better than your old speakers, and I am an investment in the future", then you get them home and they go all boring and introverted and you start to miss your active SBL's because they were always game for a laugh. "Hungry" your poor NBL's say, so you contact the manager of your Swiss bank and get them some exotic meat, which gets them out of bed and puts some colour into their cheeks. Then one stormy night you wake up and there is an NBL standing beside your bed wispering "more" into your ear ..
In other words, your first mission will be to get the NBL's to "bite" like your active SBL's did and your second will be to resist the temptation to
go even further, because NBL's are very appreciative of anything you do for them.
Posted on: 19 May 2003 by J.N.
Blythe
I have SBL's and have run them active on 'olive' 250's in the past. I now have them passive on a new 250.
Better/worse/different?
The performance is more consistent. I have mixed feelings about active systems, having been down that road. My experience is that the sound produced is more 'tweaky'. By that; I mean that it could blow me away one day, and sound like a bag of nails the next.
If you like the sound of the NBL's (they're sonically more whacky than SBL's I reckon) and can accommodate them, I'd run them passive.
Personally; I'd sell both 250's and buy a new 250 or 300 as I prefer the sound of the new amps.
Good luck.
I have SBL's and have run them active on 'olive' 250's in the past. I now have them passive on a new 250.
Better/worse/different?
The performance is more consistent. I have mixed feelings about active systems, having been down that road. My experience is that the sound produced is more 'tweaky'. By that; I mean that it could blow me away one day, and sound like a bag of nails the next.
If you like the sound of the NBL's (they're sonically more whacky than SBL's I reckon) and can accommodate them, I'd run them passive.
Personally; I'd sell both 250's and buy a new 250 or 300 as I prefer the sound of the new amps.
Good luck.
Posted on: 19 May 2003 by Paul B
blythe:
I belive that Naim originally recommended the olive 250 as the MINIMUM amp requirement for NBLs. Having recently heard 300/NBLs, IMO you need to go directly from active 250/SBLs to active 250/NBLs. I have not heard the NBLs active but the performance (read musical involvement) of the 300/NBL was not, I felt, up to the standard of the active SBLs. Mind you a 500/NBL is another story. Thus, a passive 250/NBL would be IMO, perhaps, a sideways step from active SBLs.
I am in a similar position as yourself. I had thought of moving to SL2s but sadly IMO the SL2s are disappointing at the required entry price. The NBLs too, I have been told, can be difficult to get right. That leaves DBLs - which may now be the path I shall pursue instead.
Paul
I belive that Naim originally recommended the olive 250 as the MINIMUM amp requirement for NBLs. Having recently heard 300/NBLs, IMO you need to go directly from active 250/SBLs to active 250/NBLs. I have not heard the NBLs active but the performance (read musical involvement) of the 300/NBL was not, I felt, up to the standard of the active SBLs. Mind you a 500/NBL is another story. Thus, a passive 250/NBL would be IMO, perhaps, a sideways step from active SBLs.
I am in a similar position as yourself. I had thought of moving to SL2s but sadly IMO the SL2s are disappointing at the required entry price. The NBLs too, I have been told, can be difficult to get right. That leaves DBLs - which may now be the path I shall pursue instead.
Paul
Posted on: 19 May 2003 by Minky
Paul,
Can I ask what the rest of the 300/NBL system that you heard recently was ? Did you hear this at home or in a shop ? The first question because on another thread someone with CDS3/252/300 is contemplating NBL's as an alternative to the SL2's he is trialing and although I have never heard a 252/300, I suggested that they would work very well with NBL's based on my experience with them on the end of a 552/500. The home/shop question because I see so often people comparing their own system with one they heard in an aircraft hanger or down a coal mine and to me this is a bit like comparing your wife by candlelight to Cindy Crawford by arc light (this isn't a dig, just trying to get some context).
Can I ask what the rest of the 300/NBL system that you heard recently was ? Did you hear this at home or in a shop ? The first question because on another thread someone with CDS3/252/300 is contemplating NBL's as an alternative to the SL2's he is trialing and although I have never heard a 252/300, I suggested that they would work very well with NBL's based on my experience with them on the end of a 552/500. The home/shop question because I see so often people comparing their own system with one they heard in an aircraft hanger or down a coal mine and to me this is a bit like comparing your wife by candlelight to Cindy Crawford by arc light (this isn't a dig, just trying to get some context).
Posted on: 20 May 2003 by blythe
Mmm,
I kind of guessed that I might hear that active SBL's may "connect" better than passive NBL's but I'm not prepared to spend mega money on a whole lot of new amps (250, 300 or 500) :-)
An extra (Olive) 250 isn't out of the question though...
The alternative is to go with the SL2, which although Paul said he found disapointing, I found immensley enjoyable when I had my home demo, which is why I then wanted to audition the NBL's which I did at Naim a few weeks ago.....
After the demo of the SL2's however, I was not excatly disappointed to switch back to my SBL's, though the SL2's are undoubtedly better.
I'm beginning to think it's time to upgrade the CDI to a CDX2 possibly with an XPS and to swap the 82 pre-amp for a 252.
At that point, maybe time to think speakers...
As previously mentioned (some months ago) the appearance of the SBL is one of the factors for considering changing them: My partner thinks they look "old fashioned" which I suppose a 15 year old speaker is entitled to!
Just to finish, I personally prefer active to passive in all cases that I've heard to date.
The SBL still impresses me immensley, even after having owned them for 13 years.
I went active about 4 years ago and haven't looked back.
So, no upgrade in over 4 years???? Is this a record???
Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......
I kind of guessed that I might hear that active SBL's may "connect" better than passive NBL's but I'm not prepared to spend mega money on a whole lot of new amps (250, 300 or 500) :-)
An extra (Olive) 250 isn't out of the question though...
The alternative is to go with the SL2, which although Paul said he found disapointing, I found immensley enjoyable when I had my home demo, which is why I then wanted to audition the NBL's which I did at Naim a few weeks ago.....
After the demo of the SL2's however, I was not excatly disappointed to switch back to my SBL's, though the SL2's are undoubtedly better.
I'm beginning to think it's time to upgrade the CDI to a CDX2 possibly with an XPS and to swap the 82 pre-amp for a 252.
At that point, maybe time to think speakers...
As previously mentioned (some months ago) the appearance of the SBL is one of the factors for considering changing them: My partner thinks they look "old fashioned" which I suppose a 15 year old speaker is entitled to!
Just to finish, I personally prefer active to passive in all cases that I've heard to date.
The SBL still impresses me immensley, even after having owned them for 13 years.
I went active about 4 years ago and haven't looked back.
So, no upgrade in over 4 years???? Is this a record???
Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......
Posted on: 20 May 2003 by Minky
Tom,
Bang on the money as usual.
Mark.
Bang on the money as usual.
Mark.
Posted on: 20 May 2003 by Paul B
quote:
Can I ask what the rest of the 300/NBL system that you heard recently was ? Did you hear this at home or in a shop ?
Minky:
The 300/NBLs were partnered with 252 + LP12 (Lingo, Linto, Ekos, Akiva) and heard at my dealer. I am very familiar with the room in which I heard this system having heard many different combinations of Naim gear over the years in this same room. These demos have led me to purchase my present active SBL system. The 252 was used instead of my 52 at home, the LP12 the same except for the Akiva. Everything else was listened to as a possible upgrade.
I agree that a home trial would be preferred but frankly IMO, a system at this level should impress immediately regardless of whether you hear it at home or in a subway tunnel. I have heard 52/500/NBLs in less than ideal situations and have been very impressed. The 252/300/NBL combination was not equivalent to this nor I felt as involving as active 250/SBLs heard in the same room. I compared 135s which differed considerably from the 300 in presentation (the 300 was more spacious but I felt less involving). However, we are talking of criticism at a very high level of performance. The 252/300/NBL is very good, it is just that if you have an existing active system, I feel that you should continue to go active if upgrading to NBLs (or go with the 500 - isn't that what you decided, Minky, plus a 552 as well?). Otherwise, its IMO a sideways step and may be somewhat disappointing.
Paul
Posted on: 20 May 2003 by blythe
The latest:
I have decided on and just ordered a new CDX2 with XPS and a new 252 (I already have the supercap) which I shall enjoy regardless :-)
I will have these running through my 2x250's into my SBL's until the first week of June when I'm having a home demo of the NBL's.
This should be using a 300 and I'll also try one of my 250's.
I'm also going to try this new front end, with active 250's into SL2's.
At that point, I'll:
A: Make a decision
B: Be broke :-(
Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......
I have decided on and just ordered a new CDX2 with XPS and a new 252 (I already have the supercap) which I shall enjoy regardless :-)
I will have these running through my 2x250's into my SBL's until the first week of June when I'm having a home demo of the NBL's.
This should be using a 300 and I'll also try one of my 250's.
I'm also going to try this new front end, with active 250's into SL2's.
At that point, I'll:
A: Make a decision
B: Be broke :-(
Computers are supposed to work on 1's and 0's - in other words "Yes" or "No" - why does mine frequently say "Maybe"?......
Posted on: 20 May 2003 by Minky
Paul,
Thanks for that. My recent purchases were based on home demos. The problem is that NZ seems to be full of 552/500 systems but no 252/300's in sight, so delighted as I am with my new system I still wonder if I could have achieved 95% of the result for half the price. Your answer is very helpful to me.
Blythe,
You are certainly going for the doctor ! Great approach. I would be suprised if you don't find nirvana somewhere in that lot. Keep us posted - your "experiments" should make facinating reading.
Thanks for that. My recent purchases were based on home demos. The problem is that NZ seems to be full of 552/500 systems but no 252/300's in sight, so delighted as I am with my new system I still wonder if I could have achieved 95% of the result for half the price. Your answer is very helpful to me.
Blythe,
You are certainly going for the doctor ! Great approach. I would be suprised if you don't find nirvana somewhere in that lot. Keep us posted - your "experiments" should make facinating reading.
Posted on: 20 May 2003 by Paul B
quote:
I still wonder if I could have achieved 95% of the result for half the price.
Minky:
Some would probably claim that a Nait is 90% of a 552/500, too!
The 52/500/NBL system I heard was one of the best to my ears and would be my first choice if possible. I don't think you have made the wrong choice at all going with the 500. From my experience the 300 is closer overall to 135s. Neither really compares to a 500. Different league altogether.
Paul