Upgrade to 552+500
Posted by: Big Ears on 25 January 2004
Hi all i have recently sold my 52/supercap and 135`s with the intent of upgrading to a 552/500 but a few people have said that the new kit is a bit soft sounding and that they prefer the old olive kit as to the new. I have not done a home dem yet but will be doing so in the near future.
Has any one out there moved from the same set up and did you regret it?
Regards Gary
Has any one out there moved from the same set up and did you regret it?
Regards Gary
Posted on: 25 January 2004 by chfs911
Gary,
Are you serious? It is night and day! I have gone from active Olive 250s with 52 & SBL to 52, 500, SBL and there is so much more detail.
I swapped the SBLs last week for NBLs and again it was big improvement. The 552 is on its way and I am hoping for another big jump in performance.
Interestingly the CDI I use also gets better and better. I could not stand listening to it through the active 250s but now it is singing with the 500.
Are you serious? It is night and day! I have gone from active Olive 250s with 52 & SBL to 52, 500, SBL and there is so much more detail.
I swapped the SBLs last week for NBLs and again it was big improvement. The 552 is on its way and I am hoping for another big jump in performance.
Interestingly the CDI I use also gets better and better. I could not stand listening to it through the active 250s but now it is singing with the 500.
Posted on: 25 January 2004 by Derek Wright
Gary - I completed the migration from 52, 135s to a Naim 1054 (552 + 500 + ii) combo last August. I have no regrets it sounds very good.
The atmosphere and detail of the instruments is most impressive. To fully describe the effect of the two devices requires linguistic skills that I do not have.
Next stop the upgrade to a Naim 1055 (add in the CDSiiI)
Derek
<< >>
The atmosphere and detail of the instruments is most impressive. To fully describe the effect of the two devices requires linguistic skills that I do not have.
Next stop the upgrade to a Naim 1055 (add in the CDSiiI)
Derek
<< >>
Posted on: 25 January 2004 by ken c
i have done the much humbler 52 -> 252 upgrade and even though the preamp is not yet fully warmed up, "a bit soft sounding" is definitely NOT what i am hearing.
go for it. igore the opinions of "a few people" and listen for yourself.
i envy you...
enjoy
ken
go for it. igore the opinions of "a few people" and listen for yourself.
i envy you...
enjoy
ken
Posted on: 25 January 2004 by tre2fly
If you can afford the upgrade, there's no debate or decision to make. The newer gear simply gets more of the electronics out of the way so you can hear and engage more music. The 552/500 dramatically and thrillingly so. Just do it.
Tom.
Tom.
Posted on: 25 January 2004 by Derek Wright
I had a 552 for 10 days at home to try it out.
When I returned the 552, the 52 sounded broken - it had been kept warm during the 552 period. I did not enjoy the system until the new 552 arrived and allowed me to turn in the 52. That is how good the 552 is, it made me grieve for its absence.
Derek
<< >>
When I returned the 552, the 52 sounded broken - it had been kept warm during the 552 period. I did not enjoy the system until the new 552 arrived and allowed me to turn in the 52. That is how good the 552 is, it made me grieve for its absence.
Derek
<< >>
Posted on: 25 January 2004 by Charlezz
I love Naim, but if if I had the money for a 552-500 , I would buy a full Spectral setup!!!
CHarles
CHarles
Posted on: 25 January 2004 by Minky
Last year I went from CDS2/52/Snaxo/Supercap/4x135/SBL to CDS2/552/500/NBL. Initially I was just going to do the speakers but I was a bit disappointed at how soggy they sounded so I tried the new amps and was shocked at how much better they were.
There is probably a case for people who prefer the old 250 to the new one, or 135s to 300, but I don't think it's possible to build a system from olive components that comes close to the 552/500 in any aspect of performance (provided the rest of the system can keep up).
There is probably a case for people who prefer the old 250 to the new one, or 135s to 300, but I don't think it's possible to build a system from olive components that comes close to the 552/500 in any aspect of performance (provided the rest of the system can keep up).
Posted on: 25 January 2004 by Wolf
I know if I won the lottery, first I'd buy a house with a view in the hollywood hills. Upgrade the mains and buy a sweet setup of 552/500 CDS3 and XPS2, then go on a cruise to wait for the setup to warm up. come home to a wonderful house and stereo system, OH, did I mention quit work altogether?
Life is analogue
Life is analogue
Posted on: 25 January 2004 by Minky
Wolf,
Nothing on the shagging/cake fronts ?
Nothing on the shagging/cake fronts ?
Posted on: 25 January 2004 by sean
Gary,
It seems that I may be the only one that does not have a glowing report to give. Hear goes anyway.
Last year I went from a CDS2/52/snaxo/supercap/sixpack to a CDS3/552/500 set up both into DBLs and it definately has not all been roses. The sound in my room with the six pack was truely stunning, a sound that had a real excitment about it, real pace, it really liked to stride out at you. Now I seem to have lost a lot of that balance.
The problem? Well, I do think it has a lot to do with my room. It is not excessively large (14"x17"roughly) and has quite a high cealing (10"). However the walls are all wet plastered which in effect provides a hard surface on all sides. This causes some serious echo which absolutely kills the music and makes it painful on the ears after a while. Not much fun for a super duper amp!! I have some limited room treatments in at the moment (not enough I've been told, I have more on order) which help a little.
Now, how could one system sound so good and and the next, which is supposed to be much better, sound so shite? Purely hypothisizing here you understand, as I have not got down to the bottom of the problem, I think it's to do with bandwidth, power, set up and the room. I think the new amps have a greater bandwith than the old which causes bass humps and dips (i.e. uneven bass response) in my room. The 500 has effectively more power than the six pack which puts more energy into the room and my poor little old room cannie take it. The sound at the moment is very speaker bound which is not great if you love a real presence in your room.
The 552/500 is undoubtedly a great amp. The reality of the sound or believeability if you will, is a night and day difference compared to a 52 and 135s. At the moment though I still hanker after my old sound, old silver bumpers or not. I think you can get away with a lot more with the older gear as they don't have the power/bandwidth to excite the room too much. I am however still quite willing to persevere with the set up of my system in order to get it working well, it may just take some time. The new amps do sound different to the old and to me, do sound a little softer. It just goes to show that progress may be in the eye of the beholder.
My local dealer runs the same set up as me although he does have inferier speakers B&W 800s (if your reading Robert!!) and his set up sounds fine. If any of you have any thoughts for improvements all will be greatly received.
Happy listening.
Sean.
It seems that I may be the only one that does not have a glowing report to give. Hear goes anyway.
Last year I went from a CDS2/52/snaxo/supercap/sixpack to a CDS3/552/500 set up both into DBLs and it definately has not all been roses. The sound in my room with the six pack was truely stunning, a sound that had a real excitment about it, real pace, it really liked to stride out at you. Now I seem to have lost a lot of that balance.
The problem? Well, I do think it has a lot to do with my room. It is not excessively large (14"x17"roughly) and has quite a high cealing (10"). However the walls are all wet plastered which in effect provides a hard surface on all sides. This causes some serious echo which absolutely kills the music and makes it painful on the ears after a while. Not much fun for a super duper amp!! I have some limited room treatments in at the moment (not enough I've been told, I have more on order) which help a little.
Now, how could one system sound so good and and the next, which is supposed to be much better, sound so shite? Purely hypothisizing here you understand, as I have not got down to the bottom of the problem, I think it's to do with bandwidth, power, set up and the room. I think the new amps have a greater bandwith than the old which causes bass humps and dips (i.e. uneven bass response) in my room. The 500 has effectively more power than the six pack which puts more energy into the room and my poor little old room cannie take it. The sound at the moment is very speaker bound which is not great if you love a real presence in your room.
The 552/500 is undoubtedly a great amp. The reality of the sound or believeability if you will, is a night and day difference compared to a 52 and 135s. At the moment though I still hanker after my old sound, old silver bumpers or not. I think you can get away with a lot more with the older gear as they don't have the power/bandwidth to excite the room too much. I am however still quite willing to persevere with the set up of my system in order to get it working well, it may just take some time. The new amps do sound different to the old and to me, do sound a little softer. It just goes to show that progress may be in the eye of the beholder.
My local dealer runs the same set up as me although he does have inferier speakers B&W 800s (if your reading Robert!!) and his set up sounds fine. If any of you have any thoughts for improvements all will be greatly received.
Happy listening.
Sean.
Posted on: 25 January 2004 by Manu
quote:
Originally posted by Big Ears:
Hi all i have recently sold my 52/supercap and 135`s with the intent of upgrading to a 552/500 but a few people have said that the new kit is a bit soft sounding and that they prefer the old olive kit as to the new. I have not done a home dem yet but will be doing so in the near future.
Regards Gary
Soft sounding, the 552? are you kidding?
If you can afford it, do a home demo....
Emmanuel
All opinions are my own, and reflect those of the organisation i work for, even if not stipulated.
Posted on: 25 January 2004 by Minky
quote:
Originally posted by sean:
If any of you have any thoughts for improvements all will be greatly received.
Sean,
Did you try 52/500 and 552/135s ? I can imagine that the 552 could be a little over-the-top in the wrong room.
My last music room was in a brick house with hard plastered walls and it wasn't until I got to the active 135 level that the system stopped giving me a headache. Sounds like you had the same problem and "solved" it the same way.
Posted on: 25 January 2004 by sean
Minky,
Jason at Naim suggested the same thing i.e. getting 2x250s and a xover. Having just spent what to me is a small fortune on black boxes I can't away and spend more, at least untill I've payed off this lot. Ho-hum. Anyway acording to Mr Toolsie the 500 on it's own sounded better to him, go figure?
Room treatments are a much cheaper option and one that does have the potential for big results. I'm hopeful! If you do have bass boom with an active system you can just fiddle the xover down a bit. This however may not be as effective as removing the offending boom at the offending frequency and keep the full volume of the bass frequencies. We will have to wait and see.
Then again there is always the option of moving house.
Sean.
Jason at Naim suggested the same thing i.e. getting 2x250s and a xover. Having just spent what to me is a small fortune on black boxes I can't away and spend more, at least untill I've payed off this lot. Ho-hum. Anyway acording to Mr Toolsie the 500 on it's own sounded better to him, go figure?
Room treatments are a much cheaper option and one that does have the potential for big results. I'm hopeful! If you do have bass boom with an active system you can just fiddle the xover down a bit. This however may not be as effective as removing the offending boom at the offending frequency and keep the full volume of the bass frequencies. We will have to wait and see.
Then again there is always the option of moving house.
Sean.
Posted on: 26 January 2004 by Charlezz
quote:
My local dealer runs the same set up as me although he does have inferier speakers B&W 800s
Oh no....
DBL better than BW800 
What a joke!!
Except on this forum, everybody agree to say that Naim speakers are not as good as their electronics ....
The exception is for me the NBL..
But for the price of DBL, you can have Avalon, Nautils 800, Sonus Faber... and how you like to say here, it is just like night and day!!!
Charles
Posted on: 26 January 2004 by Charlezz
Just try Spectral DMA 360's and you will resell your 500 
Charles
Charles
Posted on: 26 January 2004 by Top Cat
Disagree with you, Sean, on the DBL front. Have heard Robert's system - it remains one of the best systems I have heard if not the best - with tremendous even-handedness, bass depth and listenability. Couldn't honestly say that about DBLs... and then when you factor in how DBLs look... welll.....
Anyway, putting all that aside - Robert tells me your Prefix upgrade bits are in. Let me know how you get on - I'm sitting pretty with LP12/Aro/Armageddon/Helikon/52 with S boards/SC/250 and I'm just waiting to find out what you think of the updated Prefix before I decide whether to go down the Prefix route or budget for a £1k phono stage (as sale of HC plus Prefix cost = £1k).
Still don't agree about the DBLs. By the way, wouldn't mind hearing your system sometime....
John
Anyway, putting all that aside - Robert tells me your Prefix upgrade bits are in. Let me know how you get on - I'm sitting pretty with LP12/Aro/Armageddon/Helikon/52 with S boards/SC/250 and I'm just waiting to find out what you think of the updated Prefix before I decide whether to go down the Prefix route or budget for a £1k phono stage (as sale of HC plus Prefix cost = £1k).
Still don't agree about the DBLs. By the way, wouldn't mind hearing your system sometime....
John
Posted on: 26 January 2004 by Chris Murphy
and those that have aren't...
Posted on: 26 January 2004 by Charlezz
quote:
Considering the price difference, I'd be more than a bit disappointed if it wasn't the case.
Oh yes.. So do I, and more than a lot...
Posted on: 26 January 2004 by ken c
quote:
Originally posted by Wolf:
I know if I won the lottery, first I'd buy a house with a view in the hollywood hills. Upgrade the mains and buy a sweet setup of 552/500 CDS3 and XPS2, then go on a cruise to wait for the setup to warm up. come home to a wonderful house and stereo system, OH, did I mention quit work altogether?
Life is analogue
oh no, you cant go away during warmup, not allowed! in any case, what if you system is struck by lighting while you are away?? you really need to baby sit it during the process.
like you, i dream on...
enjoy
ken
Posted on: 26 January 2004 by ken c
The problem? Well, I do think it has a lot to do with my room. It is not excessively large (14"x17"roughly) and has quite a high cealing (10"). However the walls are all wet plastered which in effect provides a hard surface on all sides. This causes some serious echo which absolutely kills the music and makes it painful on the ears after a while. Not much fun for a super duper amp!!
sean, this is just about my idea of an "ideal room" that i would have in my new house if my lotto numbers come up, especially high ceilings, which i would give the albert hall treatment. just shows you how important room acoustics and how much i dont know about this subject...
you have the makings of an absolutely fabulous system and i hope it starts delivering soon. did you get a chance to dem it at home before purchase?
enjoy
ken
sean, this is just about my idea of an "ideal room" that i would have in my new house if my lotto numbers come up, especially high ceilings, which i would give the albert hall treatment. just shows you how important room acoustics and how much i dont know about this subject...
you have the makings of an absolutely fabulous system and i hope it starts delivering soon. did you get a chance to dem it at home before purchase?
enjoy
ken
Posted on: 26 January 2004 by Dev B
I am probably one of the few people here who has been to Sean's room (when I lived round the corner from him) and enjoyed his hospitality. His system then was a six pack isobarik system which sounded great, although I have always found the bass from briks never to my liking.
Sean, you have amazing electronics/speakers, but you will need to perserve with the room I think, I think you are right in your analysis that your ultra revealing system is now revealing things in recordings and your room that you will need to treat. But I don't think you are a million miles away, I would say that my room (18ft length x 13ft width x 11ft ceiling) which opens into another open space is probably harder to control, but I have managed to do it with paintings, furniture, etc.
Good luck!
Dev
ps. I am however on a speaker quest to replace the SBL and will be demming the main candidates soon.
Sean, you have amazing electronics/speakers, but you will need to perserve with the room I think, I think you are right in your analysis that your ultra revealing system is now revealing things in recordings and your room that you will need to treat. But I don't think you are a million miles away, I would say that my room (18ft length x 13ft width x 11ft ceiling) which opens into another open space is probably harder to control, but I have managed to do it with paintings, furniture, etc.
Good luck!
Dev
ps. I am however on a speaker quest to replace the SBL and will be demming the main candidates soon.
Posted on: 26 January 2004 by sean
And here's me thinking that everybody knows that DBLs are better than B&Ws! Ah well, who could have funk of it!!
Dev, I think that I need a little more than pictures, furniture etc. to get a grip on my room. As I have said I've got some room treatments on order from Custom Audio Designs which will go some way to treating me echo problem than I think I'll probably have to get some bass traps of some description to sort out the boom. Then hopefully it will be sit back and enjoy.
T.C. you would be most welcome to come round and hear my system if you are ever up in Aberdeen or if you are up at Roberts you could always come that extra few miles to hear what an exceptional loudspeaker the DBL is. Will let you know how I get on with my prefix.
I have Mana stands under the DBLs and have tried moving the speaker further out, only to loose the body in the midrange. Help is definately needed.
Sean.
P.S. Dev, I think that B&W 802s are the ideal replacement for your SBLs and the ideal speaker for you giving your love even bass, timing and Dr Who and the Daliks. This advice has been brought to you free of charge.
[This message was edited by sean on MONDAY 26 January 2004 at 19:46.]
Dev, I think that I need a little more than pictures, furniture etc. to get a grip on my room. As I have said I've got some room treatments on order from Custom Audio Designs which will go some way to treating me echo problem than I think I'll probably have to get some bass traps of some description to sort out the boom. Then hopefully it will be sit back and enjoy.
T.C. you would be most welcome to come round and hear my system if you are ever up in Aberdeen or if you are up at Roberts you could always come that extra few miles to hear what an exceptional loudspeaker the DBL is. Will let you know how I get on with my prefix.
I have Mana stands under the DBLs and have tried moving the speaker further out, only to loose the body in the midrange. Help is definately needed.
Sean.
P.S. Dev, I think that B&W 802s are the ideal replacement for your SBLs and the ideal speaker for you giving your love even bass, timing and Dr Who and the Daliks. This advice has been brought to you free of charge.
[This message was edited by sean on MONDAY 26 January 2004 at 19:46.]
Posted on: 26 January 2004 by chfs911
Sean,
Have you tried the egg boxes all round to give tha anechoic chamber effect? ;O)
You obviously need plenty of soft furnishings to soak up the bass. An architect setting up the Simple Minds studio at Loch Earn found they had fitted one wall panel incorrectly and it was resonating like fun. Guess you need to get the kids at Uni round with a spectrum analyser.
I await my 552 to join the 500 and NBls and hope it is night and day in my room. Interested in the prefix mod too. As for TC coming round well that'll be the day! ;O)
Have you tried the egg boxes all round to give tha anechoic chamber effect? ;O)
You obviously need plenty of soft furnishings to soak up the bass. An architect setting up the Simple Minds studio at Loch Earn found they had fitted one wall panel incorrectly and it was resonating like fun. Guess you need to get the kids at Uni round with a spectrum analyser.
I await my 552 to join the 500 and NBls and hope it is night and day in my room. Interested in the prefix mod too. As for TC coming round well that'll be the day! ;O)
Posted on: 26 January 2004 by sean
Would that be carboard or polystyrene? I think I may pass on that one. I'd imagine you are looking forward to getting your 552, I'm sure you won't regret it. Keep is posted on how you get on with it and I'd also love to come round for a listen. And yes I would turn up. I've never been properly aquainted with NBLs and it would be great to hear a pair sounding on top of their game.
Sean.
Sean.
Posted on: 26 January 2004 by Top Cat
quote:
As for TC coming round well that'll be the day! ;O)
Cough, ahem... are you free tomorrow (Wednesday) evening? There's a good chance I will be, and can pop up in the car. I've been planning my visit, honestly, really I have, it's just that things have been *very* busy of late...
John