The Demise of the SBL

Posted by: P on 24 May 2001

Friends of the forum I bear sad sad news indeed.

I was going to keep this quiet but I feel you lot out there oughta know.

I have recently tried to place an order for SBLs (like yesterday)

I have been told they have been discontinued.

They are no longer available in Cherry and only a limited stock exists of black and walnut..

I am extremely sad

Seems to me that the Allae will actually replace the SBL as well as the Credo.

Oh dear oh deary me this is a tragedy.

I was so looking forward to glueing on my first B Box.

I feel like I've missed a whole era

P

[This message was edited by P on THURSDAY 24 May 2001 at 23:17.]

Posted on: 24 May 2001 by Steve Crouch
I was told the same thing by my dealer yesterday. I wanted latest cabinets in cherry. Will have to look second hand or get black (at a knock down price).

Steve

Posted on: 24 May 2001 by Andrew Randle
Really Pierre? Which dealer said that?

Try another dealer, because I am sure there must be some mistake for the following reasons:

1) Naim said it was to replace the Credo
2) No announcement, to generate an end-of-line rush
3) Why discontinue the SBLs when the allae will not be available until late July (at the earliest).
4) SBLs are said to be better than allaes (although I'm not sure on that score.
5) You're winding us up (please say yes!)

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

Posted on: 24 May 2001 by P
Andrew

OK I'll come clean

I used to use that Nom de Plume simply because I couldn't register as Pete or Peter OK - there are a lot of us about and I missed my slot.

I am not winding anybody up here OK

It's true.... the SBL is apparently no more.

As far as what might be replacing it goes...

Well your guess is as good as mine cool

P.

[This message was edited by P on THURSDAY 24 May 2001 at 19:34.]

Posted on: 24 May 2001 by Paul Stephenson
Well yes and no!
We are having problems getting any cabinets from our friends at the moment. allae does not replace sbl( though it is exceedingly good) and we will only be offering sbl in black, walnut and piano black for the next year.
In the future there will be a new design but for the next year sbl will be sold but in limited finishes.
Posted on: 24 May 2001 by Chris Bell
I suspect there is an SBL replacement in the works. Think of the Allae as a dressed up Credo, but there is no way it could be an SBL replacement. I would look for a new speaker in the $5000.00 (us) range. Maybe a 3 way baby NBL? There was some talk in Hi-Fi Plus about a ribon tweeter from Naim. Maybe the SBL replacement will have this? Who knows, but I bet we will be seeing all sorts of new goodies come out of Salsbury soon--even though they will deny it!

Sad to see the SBL go...it was remarkable.

Chris Bell

PS. Paul S: Please make sure the new speaker uses foam grills, it really makes a difference, but then you knew that!

Posted on: 24 May 2001 by ken c
if you have anything other than black sbl's, hang on to them, they'll soon be like gold dust.

how i wish i had bought a different finish ...

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 24 May 2001 by ken c
quote:
PS. Paul S: Please make sure the new speaker uses foam grills, it really makes a difference, but then you knew that!

good request. i agree.

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 24 May 2001 by Mick P
Ken

Once a model is discontinued its second hand value reduces. I suspect that SBL's will be struggling to make £600 in a couple of years and will thereafter hover around £400. If you want the piano black or walnut...you will get one cheaply. Everyone wants the new improved models..its a fact of life.

Regards

Mick.....who will stick with his SBL because he likes it.

Posted on: 24 May 2001 by ken c
quote:
Mick.....who will stick with his SBL because he likes it.

i dunno for sure -- i havent noticed any collapse in ibl, nap140, or nait3, or nac92 prices. if a large enough percentage of current sbl owners adopt the sort of stance that you are, then supply and demand may conspire against your forecast fall in prices (beyond normal depreciation). so, your decision to keep your beloved sbl's rather makes my point.

also rather depends on how well the new transducers are perceived to perform relative to current models.

regardless, i still think non-standard sbl finishes in good enough condition will command a premium price.

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 24 May 2001 by Paul Stephenson
untrue just some finishes!! Customers will still be able to buy sbl's in 2002 but in limited colours.
Posted on: 25 May 2001 by Bosh
My dealer informs me that there is an SBL2 in the pipeline to be priced at £4k +, with mainly cosmetic improvements. He says that sonic improvements will be marginal!! Can this be true Salisbury?
Posted on: 25 May 2001 by Mick P
Bosh

Only Naim can accurately answer your question but if you look at their output over the last couple of years, you will find that they are releasing new products which are sonically superior to those that they are replacing as well as being more up to date in appearance.

I would imagine that SBL2 (if it exists)will retail around £3500/£4000 but will sound better and look better and offer more value for money.

This will result in Naim being able to offer a full range of speakers which look and sound good.

No complaints on this score from me.

Regards

Mick

Posted on: 25 May 2001 by Timbo
I agree with Mick. Naim maybe on a long term strategy of completely updating its speaker range. Certainly the demise of the Credo in favour of the Allae puts it too near the SBL price bracket. An SBL2 pitched at £3500-4000 would give the speaker line a smoother look and hopefully sound upgrade path. I note even Paul S saying that dealers hate mucking around with the mastik on the SBLs and perhaps also DBLs.

The new speakers with their non mastik construction are easier to set up for dealers and with home dems.

Now I've got to the point I wanted to make!

What about home dems, I will be after a pair of NBLS next year and my experience so far has led me to believe that few dealers carry dem models and fewer are reluctant to loan them out. If I'm paying out this sort of money I have to be damn sure they work in my living room. I know Naim have a "mystical" thing about if the customer is not 100% happy then they get a full refund, is this still true?

If NBLs don't work for me, instead of buying an alternative from another manufacturer (if there is one) I may consider the next Naim speaker down the range if it works and going active with it.

Tim

Posted on: 25 May 2001 by woodface
The Sbl will always be a great speaker regardless of what replaces it! The Sbl2 at £3.5 - £4k will really be in a very different bracket. I don't expect it to be massively better as the cost of developing it and the setting up of a new production process for the cabinets will be high. I think Sbl prices will hold, the cost of their successor will see to that. Also there are always people who will prefer the original, like they do with kans.

[This message was edited by woodface on FRIDAY 25 May 2001 at 12:15.]

Posted on: 25 May 2001 by Tony L
quote:
The Sbl2 at £3.5 - £4k will really be in a very different bracket. I don't expect it to be massively better as the cost of developing it and the setting up of a new production process for the cabinets will be high.

Well, if it ain't better they won't sell any! I can't imagine people being stupid enough to buy an inferior product at an inflated price. The 3.5-4k sector is competitive, they would be up against the JM Labs Micro Utopia which on first listen seems a very competent speaker. I would be amazed if Naim did not release what they considered an improvement to the old SBL design.

What interests me more is what type of speaker it is…

From my perspective Naim indirectly has two speaker ranges:- The IBL, SBL, and DBL represent the original concept, and my uneducated guess is that they were all the work of the same designer. They are all infinite baffle wall proximity speakers, and whilst I have never personally heard IBLs, the SBL and DBL definitely share a certain sonic footprint. The Intro, Credo, and from initial visual inspection the Allae, are all ported designs designed to be used a little away from a rear boundary. The Intro and Credo definitely share a very different sonic footprint to the original xBL range, and whilst I can certainly understand what makes them sell, I have to admit that I am not a great fan of either design (they each have competitors at their price point that I much prefer). I suspect they are the work of a different designer to the earlier speakers. I have deliberately left the NBL out of my discussion as I have so far not heard it perform sufficiently well to really get a handle on its sound.

So what will the new SBL be like? What I would like is another sealed box, I would certainly be very disappointed to see a ported design, and it would be nice if it were a three way. A speaker of SBL proportion, but with a driver in each box would to my mind be pretty cool.

Tony.

Posted on: 25 May 2001 by Andrew Randle
Tony,

IMHO the Allaes don't sound like a ported design. So, you might find them very interesting - they are like Kans with excellent bass extension.

I'm not familiar with the current SBLs, but I reckon the design improves on the early SBL models.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

[This message was edited by Andrew Randle on FRIDAY 25 May 2001 at 11:20.]

Posted on: 25 May 2001 by ken c
quote:
... and it would be nice if it were a three way

oh, no!! means i have to buy another 250 and change my snaxo2-4 to 3-6?? you dont want to put me into all this trouble do you??

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 25 May 2001 by Andrew Randle
Ken, bought that CDS2 yet? razz big grin

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;

Posted on: 25 May 2001 by ken c
quote:
Ken, bought that CDS2 yet?

no. one more dem tomorrow. then its decision time between the 2 shops. could have made it 3, but this process is actually quite time consuming. learnt a lot in the process though. quality of coffee may end up having a huge weight in the decision.

by next week i should know, where i am buying from, and when it is going to be delivered. i might pick it up from naim and install it myself -- will see. if i wasnt upgrading -- i would just buy it direct from naim themselves --- but of course, they would probably very politely tell me to p*ss off as they are not retailers.

so, thanks for asking andrew. its taken a lot longer than i ever imagined because of serious problems i had with my system in march/april, but i am getting there, so, any day now...

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 25 May 2001 by ken c
quote:
The Sbl will always be a grat speaker regardless of what replaces it! The Sbl2 at £3.5 - £4k will really be in a very different bracket.

i couldnt agree more.

but, do i detect a (very) subtle attempt to force the name of the sbl resplacement to a rather original use of letters and numbers? if so, lacking any imagination whatsoever, i am right behind you...

enjoy

ken

Posted on: 25 May 2001 by Rico
Andrew said:
quote:
IMHO the Allaes don't sound like a ported design. So, you might find them very interesting - they are like Kans with excellent bass extension.

I'm not familiar with the current SBLs, but I reckon the design improves on the early SBL models.

Just goes to show how we all hear things differently. I thought the Allae's were a cracking sound for a speaker under development, and certinly better in almost all respects that the Credo's. What I did hear was definitely a ported speaker, albeit done well. What I didn't hear was a sonic improvement on the SBL's. Kan's? Hmmm - big call.

I agree with Tony - if the SBL replacement isn't better, they won't sell any. Naim are not known for releasing moose products, so we can look forward to something that works. If circa £4k5 is too rich, there's a plentiful supply of the three releases of SBL (over 15-odd years ?) to choose from circa £1000 used!, give or take £400. Simple. Or if you don't like mastic, Intro's and Credo's, or if you have some extra cash, Allae's not only improve but look good too! From any angle, your friendly Naim dealer has the bases covered. This should make them well happy, along with the punters.

Rico - all your base are belong to us.

Posted on: 25 May 2001 by woodface
Tony, if you are going to quote me at least read what I put!! I said the SBL2's will not be massively better, nothing about them being inferior. When naim release this speaker it will get reviewed by people who have forgot what an SBL sound like - as such they may paint it as a great step forward.
Posted on: 25 May 2001 by Simon Matthews
How can you say that a new speaker (which is after all only the subject of speculation) will 'not be massively better'. why don't we judge things after actually hearing them. A job at what hi fi awaits you.
Posted on: 27 May 2001 by Paul B
Has anyone ever seen/heard or evaluated piano-black SBLs? I have only seen pictures of piano-black DBLs which I thought pretty impressive. How much more is the piano-black finish? Are the sonics the same?

Paul

Posted on: 27 May 2001 by Andrew Randle
Paul,

You do have to pay a premium on the gloss black SBLs, maybe something like £300-400 more. The gloss is actually applied on top of a veneer.

They look awesome, if you like black.

Andrew

Andrew Randle
2B || !2B;
4 ^ = ?;